8 February 2004. Add fourth (and speaking for a fifth) DoJ response to Cryptome's FOIA request concerning rogue FBI agents, which was responsive rather than a churn.

Extending the joke, "if you didn't have an FBI file before requesting it, now you do, with one item: your request," with these DoJ responses so far:

"There is no information about Cryptome or you in the FBI Headquarters main database, not in the FBI New York office, not in the DoJ branch offices you happened to try, not in the electronic database of those offices you did try, not accessible without proof of identity again and again (Catch 22 v.1), didn't appear in a search by an unexplained process (Catch 22 v.2), will have to be requested among 100 other offices where they might be located (Catch 22 v.3), your request file will be closed until you obey the following procedures again and again (Catch 22 v.4), and there will be no disclosures no matter what you do, for national security rules secretly, period. You can appeal till your ass falls off, get over it, it's a different world after 911, as after the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, the World Wars, the War Against Terrorism, for all the wars awaiting (Catch All)."

1 February 2004. Add third DoJ churning response.

17 January 2004

These are two responses from six DoJ and FBI offices to which Cryptome sent FOIA/PA requests (copy below) as follow-up to the FBI's Records Management Division claim it had no records on Cryptome:


The FOIA requests were made to learn why Cryptome was visited by two FBI Special Agents, Todd Renner and Christopher Kelly on 4 November 2003:


A December 28, 2003, request to the New York Field Office of the FBI produced this form letter from the FBI's Records Management Division identical to one at http://cryptome.org/fbi-cryptome3.htm#letter, except for assignment of another Request No. 0989810-000, and the first paragraph's additional sentence stating: "Your request was forwarded from New York Field Office."

This, with other FBI and DoJ responses, appear to be churning of the requests to avoid answering them. (SA Renner told me he would make a report of the Cryptome visit.) Could be FBI Special Agents Todd Renner and Christopher Kelly were rogue agents acting without authority, or more likely, the Bureau, DoJ, and the Bush administration are applauding such speech-chilling visits.

[Letter, 1 p.]

                                                                                       U.S. Department of Justice

                                                                                       Federal Bureau of Investigation

                                                                                       Washington, D.C. 20535

                                                                                       January 8, 2004

NEW YORK, NY 10024

                                                                                       Request No.: 0989810- 000
                                                                                       Subject: YOUNG, JOHN LEE

Dear Mr. Young,

[x] This acknowledges receipt of your Freedom of Information-Privacy Acts (FOIPA) request
to the FBI. The FOIPA number listed above has been assigned to your request. Your request was forwarded from New York Field Office.

[  ] For an accurate search of our records, please provide the complete name, alias, date and
place of birth for the subject of your request. Any other specific data you could provide
such as prior addresses, or employment information would also be helpful. If your
subject is deceased, please include date and proof of death.

[  ] To make sure information about you is not released to someone else, we requre your
notarized signature, or, in place of a notarized signature, a declaration pursuant to Title
28, United States Code 1746. For your convenience, the reverse side of this letter
contains a form which may be used for this purpose. [Nothing on the reverse side of the

[  ] If you want the FBI's Criminal Justice Information System (CJIS) to perform a search for
your arrest record, please follow the enclosed instructions in Attorney General Order
556-73. [Order not enclosed.] You must submit fingerprint impressions so a comparison can be
made with the records kept by CJIS. This is to make sure your information is not released to an
unauthorized person.

[  ] We are searching the indices to our central records system at FBI Headquarters for the
information you requested, and will inform you of the results as soon as possible.

[  ] Processing delays have been caused by the large number of requests received by the
FOIPA. We will process your request(s) as soon as possible.

Your request has been assigned the number indicated above. Please use this number in all
correspondence with us. Your patience is appreciated.

                                                                                       Sincerely yours,


                                                                                       David M. Hardy
                                                                                       Section Chief,
                                                                                         Dissemination Section
                                                                                       Records Management Division

[1 page letter.]

                                                                                       U.S. Department of Justice

                                                                                       Office of Intelligence Policy and Review

                                                                                       Washington, D.C. 20530

                                                                                       JAN 9 2004

John L. Young
251 West 89th Street
New York, NY 10024

Re: FOIA/PA #4-011

Dear Mr. Young,

This responds to your December 29, 2003, request for access to records pertaining to you under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and Privacy Act. Your request was forwarded by the Justice Management Division's FOIA/PA Referral Unit, and was received by this Office on January 8, 2004. With the reservation below, a search of our records did not reveal any information or records responsive to your request.

The Office of Intelligence, Policy and Review (OIPR) maintains copies of all Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) applications, as well as requests for approval of various foreign intelligence and counterintelligence techniques such as physical searches or mail covers. We did not search these records in response to your request because the existence or nonexistence of such records on specific persons or organizations is properly classified under Executive Order 12958. To confirm or deny the existence of such materials in each case would tend to reveal which persons or organizations are the subjects of such requests. Accordingly, we can neither confirm nor deny the existence of records responsive to your request pursuant to 5 U.S.C. § 552a(k)(1) and 5. U.S.C. § 552(b)1).

Furthermore, if there were any records in these files responsive to your request, they would be exempt from disclosure under section (k)(1) of the Privacy Act and section (b)(1) of the Freedom of Information Act. As stated earlier, however, you should not construe this response as either confirming or denying the existence of any such records pertaining to your request.

If you are not satisfied with this response you may administratively appeal by writing to the Co-Director, Office of Information and Privacy, United States Department of Justice, Flag Building, Suite 570, Washington, D.C. 20530-0001, within sixty days from the date of this letter. Both the letter and the envelope should be clearly marked "Freedom of Information Act Appeal."



James A. Baker
Counsel for Intelligence Policy

JOHN YOUNG                251 WEST 89TH ST              NEW YORK NY 10024
212-873-8700                   Fax 212-787-6102                  jya@pipeline.com


December 28, 2003                                                                                       

New York Office
Federal Bureau of Investigation
26 Federal Plaza
New York, NY 10278

Deputy Director
Office of the Attorney General
Department of Justice
Suite 570, Flag Building
Washington, D.C. 20530-0001

Chief, FOIA/PA Unit
Criminal Division
Department of Justice
Suite 1127, Keeney Building
Washington, D.C. 20530-0001

FOIA/Privacy Unit
Executive Office for United States Attorneys
Department of Justice
Room 7300, 600 E Street, N.W.
Chief, FOIA/PA Unit
Washington, D.C. 20530-0001

Deputy Director
Office of Information and Privacy
Department of Justice
Suite 570, Flag Building
Washington, D.C. 20530-0001

Deputy Counsel for Intelligence Policy
Office of Intelligence Policy and Review
Department of Justice
Room 6150, 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20530-0001

Re      Freedom of Information/Privacy Acts Request

In response to a Department of Justice letter of December 23, 2003 (copy attached) concerning my FOI/PA request of November 6, 2003 (copy attached), I resend my request to your DoJ component with the enclosed certification of my identity.

Under provisions of the Freedom of Information/Privacy Acts I request all Department of Justice and Federal Bureau of Investigation files and records concerning me, John Lee Young, SSN xxx-xx-xxxx, now residing at the address above:

1. Investigative files and reports, and any other documentation which led to a visit to my residence on November 4, 2003 by FBI Special Agents Todd Renner and Christopher Kelly of the New York office of the FBI; and documentation prepared as a result of the visit.

2. Investigative files and reports, and any other documentation concerning my internet website www.cryptome.org.


John Young

Att     DoJ Letter, December 23, 2003, 1 p. [below]
          Certification of Identity, 1 p. [Similar to form at http://cryptome.org/fbi-cryptome3.htm
          John Young FOI request, 1 p. [See http://cryptome.org/fbi-cryptome2.htm ]

[Letter, 1 p.]

                                                                                       U.S. Department of Justice


                                                                                       Washington, D.C. 20530

                                                                                       DEC 23 2003

John L. Young
251 West 89th Street
New York, NY 10024

Dear Mr. Young:

Your Freedom of Information Act and/or Privacy Act (FOIA/PA) request was received by this office which serves as the receipt and referral unity for FOIA/PA requests addressed to the Department of Justice (DOJ). Federal agencies are required to respond to a FOIA request within twenty business days. This period does not begin until the request is actually received by the component within the DOJ that maintains the records sought.

While Privacy Act requests are processed under both the FOIA/PA to assure the fullest possible disclosure, access to records relating to an individual is governed by the Privacy Act. Therefore, the DOJ cannot process your request until Privacy Act requirements are met.

The DOJ must verify the identity of the person who is the subject of records being requested. This verification is necessary to protect the individual's privacy and is required by Title 28, Code of Federal Regulations, Section 16.41(d) (2). Please send the enclosed Certification of Identity, Form DOJ-361, with a request for records directly to the component(s) you have selected at the address(es) shown on the enclosed "List of Department of Justice Components, Functions and Records Maintained." Please note that your signature is required.


[Initials] [Signed]

Stephen K. Myers, Acting Director
Facilities and Adminstrative Services Staff
Justice Management Division

Certification of Identity [1 p.]
List of Department of Justice Components, Functions and Records Maintained
[25 pp.]
Incoming Letter [1 p.]

Here's US Search data on the names Todd Renner and Christopher E. Kelly in New York (none may pertain to the Special Agents; Renner's FBI business card had no middle initial, although Kelly's MI was E., and neither may live in New York):

557 5TH ST



NEW YORK, NY 10007

NEW YORK, NY 10013

51 W 86TH ST
NEW YORK, NY 10024
[This address is a few blocks from Cryptome's at 251 West 89th Street]

165 E 83RD ST
NEW YORK, NY 10028


9701 SHORE PY 3C

226 W 108TH ST
NEW YORK, NY 10025 

630 W 168TH ST
NEW YORK, NY 10032 

RIPLEY, NY 14775 

POB 104


NEW YORK, NY 10128 

[2 pages.]

U.S. Department of Justice

Executive Office for United States Attorneys
Freedom of Information/Privacy Act Unit
600 E Street, N.W. Room 7300
Washington, D.C. 20530
202-616-6757  Fax 202-616-6478


Requester: John Young                                            

Request Number: 04-35    

Subject of Request: John Young                                   

Dear Requester:

     Your Freedom of Information Act/Privacy Act request has been
received.  Since the files and records of United States Attorneys
are located in more than 100 separate offices throughout the
country, we ask that you identify the specific U.S. Attorney's
office(s) where you believe ther requested records exist.  This
would primarily be the district(s) in which prosecution or
litigation occurred.

     By making a FOIA/PA request, you agree to pay fees up to
$25, as stated in 28 C.F.R. §16.3(c), unless you request a waiver
of fees (according to requirements in 28 C.F.R. §16.11(k)).
Indigency does not constitute a basis for a fee waiver.  Please
not that pursuant to 28 C.F.R. §16.11, we are required to charge
fees for time used to search for the documents you have requested
and for duplication of all pages released to you.  Normally,
search time is charged at a rate of $28 per hour after the first
two hours which are free, and duplication fees are $0.10 per page
after the first 100 pages which are free.  Please do not send any
payment at this time!  If we anticipate that fees will exceed $25
or the amount you state in your letter (if greater than $25), we
will normally notify you of our estimate of fees.  After we
received your agreement to pay for the expected fees (or you have
narrowed your request to reduce fees) and we have processed your
request, we will require payment for the accumulated charges
before we release any documents to you (in excess of 100 free
pages).  Without such payment, your request file will be closed
without further action.

     Once you have corrected the above deficiencies, please
submit a new request for the documents.  This is a final
determination and your request for information has been closed.
When we have received your new, corrected request, we will open a
new file for you.

     You may appeal my decision in this matter by writing within sixty
(60) days, to:

     Office of Information and Privacy
     United States Department of Justice
     Flag Building, Suite 570
     Washington, D.C. 20530

     Both the envelope and the letter of appeal must be clearly
marked "Freedom of Information/Privacy Act Appeal."

     After the appeal has been decided, you may have judicial
review by filing a complaint in the United States District Court
for the judicial district in which you reside or have your
principal place of business; the judicial district in which the
requested records, if any, are located; or in the District of



				Marie A. O'Rouke
Assistant Director

[1 page.]

                                                                                               U.S. Department of Justice

                                                                                               Office of Information and Privacy


                                                                                               Washington, D.C. 20530

                                                                                                        FEB 3 2004

Telephone: (202) 514-3642

Mr. John Young
251 W. 89th St.
New York, NY 10024

                                                                                               Re:   AG/04-R0357

Dear Mr. Young,

This responds to your Freedom of Information/Privacy Act (FOIA/PA) requests dated December 28, 2003, and received by this Office on January 14, 2004, in which you requested records pertaining to yourself. This response is made on behalf of the Offices of the Attorney General and Information and Privacy.

We conducted a records search of the electronic databases of the Office of Information and Privacy and the Department Executive Secretariat, which is the official records repository for the Office of the Attorney General, and no records identifiable to you were located.

If you consider my response to be a denial of this request, you may adminstratively appeal by writing to the Co-Director, Office of Information and Privacy, United States Department of Justice, Flag Building, Suite 570, Washington, DC 20530-0001, within sixty days from the date of this letter. Both the letter and the envelope should be clearly marked "Freedom of Information Act Appeal."



Melanie Ann Pustay
Deputy Director