24 November 2001
Source: Digital files from Court Reporter Julaine V. Ryen, Western District
of Washington, Tacoma, WA. Telephone: (253) 593-6591
This is Day 4 of the testimony.
See other testimony: http://cryptome.org/usa-v-jdb-dt.htm
471
1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON
2 AT TACOMA
3
4 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) Docket No. CR00-5731JET
) Court of Appeals No. 01-30303-00
5 Plaintiff, )
)
6 v. )
) Tacoma, Washington
7 JAMES DALTON BELL, ) April 6, 2001
)
8 Defendant. )
)
9
10 VOLUME 4
TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL
11 BEFORE THE HONORABLE JACK E. TANNER
SENIOR UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE, and a Jury
12
13 APPEARANCES:
14 For the Plaintiff: ROBB LONDON
Assistant United States Attorney
15 601 Union Street, Suite 5100
Seattle, Washington 98101
16
For the Defendant: ROBERT M. LEEN
17 Attorney At Law
Two Union Square
18 601 Union Street, Suite 4610
Seattle, Washington 98101-3903
19
20
21 Court Reporter: Julaine V. Ryen
Post Office Box 885
22 Tacoma, Washington 98401-0885
(253) 593-6591
23
24
Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcript
25 produced by Reporter on computer.
472
1 I N D E X
2 Page
3 VOLUME 4 471 - 649
4
WITNESSES ON BEHALF OF PLAINTIFF:
5
JEFFREY GORDON
6 Direct (Continuing) .......... 474
Cross ........................ 504
7 Redirect ..................... 517
8 JEFFREY GORDON (Recalled)
Direct ....................... 520
9
Plaintiff Rests ............................... 522
10
WITNESSES ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT:
11
JAMES D. BELL
12 Direct ....................... 541
13
MOTIONS:
14
Defendant's Motion for a Verdict of Acquittal
15 Pursuant to Rule 29 ............................ 523
As to Count 1 .............................. 524
16 Denied ............................... 525/534
As to Count 2 ............................. 525
17 Denied ............................... 525/534
As to Count 3 .............................. 525
18 Denied ............................... 526/534
As to Count 4 ............................. 527
19 Denied ............................... 534
As to Count 5 .............................. 528
20 Denied ............................... 534
21 Defendant's Motion For a Mistrial Renewed ...... 529
22
23 EXHIBITS Admitted
24 116 477
119 478
25 127 486
473
1 I N D E X
2 EXHIBITS Admitted
3 130 540
132 540
4 134 540
135 540
5 140 478
151 479
6 155 479
157 480
7 162 480
170 482
8 184 485
235 494
9 236 494
237 494
10
A-1 592
11 A-3 594
A-4 598
12 A-5 598
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
474
1 (Defendant present.)
2 MORNING SESSION
3 (Jury not present.)
4 THE COURT: Are we ready? Anything before the jury?
5 MR. LEEN: No, sir.
6 MR. LONDON: Actually, Your Honor, we are prepared now
7 to file the redacted version of Exhibit 51, so I can hand that
8 up.
9 THE CLERK: Thank you.
10 MR. LEEN: Your Honor, may I indicate for the record,
11 while I object to the exhibit in its entirety, this is the --
12 the government allowed me to make suggestions of redactions. We
13 still object to the exhibit, but I think at least this comports
14 with what the government felt was relevant about the exhibit.
15 THE COURT: All right.
16 Bring the jury.
17 (Jury present; 9:40 a.m.)
18 THE COURT: Let the record reflect the jury has
19 returned. Good morning.
20 (Jury responds good morning.)
21 THE COURT: The witness is on the stand. The witness
22 is still under oath. Redirect -- I'm sorry, direct.
23 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continuing)
24 BY MR. LONDON:
25 Q. Agent Gordon, when we were going through your testimony
475
1 yesterday before the break, I believe we, in terms of the
2 chronology of the timeline things, had gotten up to what you
3 were observing on the Internet and in other respects about Mr.
4 Bell's -- some of Mr. Bell's communications and his conduct,
5 through pretty much, I think, the end of the summer. I want to
6 turn your attention to Exhibit 116, an email dated September 15,
7 2000, to the Cypherpunks. Did you observe that on the Internet
8 on or about September 15th?
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. All right. And did you notice something about Agent McNall
11 in that email?
12 A. Yes, I did.
13 Q. What did you notice about that email that caught your
14 attention?
15 A. On the third page, it mentioned that he thought that ATF
16 Agent, or BATF Agent Mike McNall would -- he thought it was
17 Agent Mike McNall who did the deal with Lund to have him
18 assaulted.
19 Q. What did you make of that? I mean, did it make any sense to
20 you?
21 A. Well, I understood what he was at least claiming. It
22 certainly -- and that he was apparently doing more research.
23 But, no, I mean, it certainly wasn't true, and --
24 Q. But had you prior to this ever heard Mr. Bell's allegation
25 that he had been beaten up by someone at SeaTac named Ryan Lund
476
1 and that this had been done at the behest of the government to
2 try to coerce him into taking a plea in 1997?
3 A. Yeah. I heard that allegation before. I think it had come
4 up during his probation violation hearings, and I had seen other
5 information relating to that purporting to be from him on the
6 Internet. But this was the first time that I had seen the name
7 or even -- ever heard of Mike McNall.
8 Q. All right. Now, when you say you saw Exhibit 116 on the
9 Internet, was that on a place on the Internet that is a public
10 site that anyone can access if they simply enter the email
11 address for that website?
12 A. This was on the Cypherpunks list which is public, and the
13 Cypherpunks list actually can be seen in several -- there's
14 several different ways you can see or get the Cypherpunks list.
15 One way is to have it come and sent to you as email, and in this
16 case, that's what I do. I set up a separate mailbox, an email
17 address, to receive the Cypherpunks list. But the Cypherpunks
18 list also gets publicly posted to a web page, which they call
19 the archive, or several web pages that have it so that if you
20 don't want to set it up and have it emailed to you, you can just
21 go to the web page and look at the various emails on that web
22 page. So there's different places you can see it. In this
23 case, when I got it initially, I saw it as receiving it as
24 email.
25 Q. But in any respect or in any manner, were you monitoring any
477
1 kind of private email between Mr. Bell and anybody else,
2 anything that wasn't -- that he wasn't publicly posting to the
3 email?
4 A. No.
5 MR. LONDON: We offer Exhibit 116.
6 MR. LEEN: No objection.
7 THE COURT: It's admitted.
8 (Exhibit No. 116 was admitted.)
9 Q. (By Mr. London) Now, around about October 10th, did you
10 also observe another email publicly posted on the Internet?
11 Exhibit No. 119, I draw your attention to that.
12 A. Yes. I don't remember the exact date that I saw it, but 119
13 is my printout that I make.
14 Q. And what did you notice about 119 that caught your
15 attention?
16 A. This is just publicly posted to the Usenet portion of the
17 Internet and so it's publicly available. It's like a bulletin
18 board that anybody can go see it. And this is one where he just
19 discuss -- just says, "Please consider my essay, 'Assassination
20 Politics,'" and gives the web page -- one of the web pages where
21 that's located as it is. And he mentions, "you need to read my
22 idea of a solution to the problem." So it was just another
23 evidence, to me, anyway, that he was still, as of October 10th,
24 2000, advocating Assassination Politics.
25 MR. LONDON: I offer 119.
478
1 MR. LEEN: No objection.
2 THE COURT: 119 is admitted.
3 (Exhibit No. 119 was admitted.)
4 Q. (Mr. London) All right. Now, that one was dated October
5 10th. A few days later, on October 24th, did you see a message
6 posted on the Internet with the header, "Say Goodnight to
7 Joshua"?
8 A. Again, I'm not sure the exact date I saw it, but, yes, I did
9 see a -- that message.
10 Q. Was that message dated October 24th? If you will look at
11 Exhibit 140.
12 A. Yes. This is my printout that I made.
13 Q. All right.
14 MR. LONDON: We offer 140.
15 MR. LEEN: No objection.
16 THE COURT: 140 is admitted.
17 (Exhibit No. 140 was admitted.)
18 Q. (By Mr. London) Now, I believe yesterday you did testify
19 that you had already observed some publicly available Internet
20 correspondence between Mr. Bell and John Young or via the
21 Cypherpunks list about a Mr. Mueller and a CIA Intelink in
22 Oregon. Specifically, which exhibits did you download that
23 included the references to Mr. Mueller in Oregon? I will ask
24 you to start with 151.
25 A. 151 is an exhibit that I received and downloaded relating to
479
1 that.
2 Q. That was 151?
3 MR. LONDON: I will offer 151.
4 A. Yes, that was 151.
5 THE COURT: Are you offering 151?
6 MR. LONDON: Yes, Your Honor.
7 MR. LEEN: No objection.
8 THE COURT: 151 is admitted.
9 (Exhibit No. 151 was admitted.)
10 Q. (By Mr. London) Will you turn to 155?
11 A. Yes. This is also one of the emails that I downloaded from
12 the Internet.
13 Q. What does it describe?
14 A. This is again CIA in Oregon.
15 Q. Does it mention Mr. Mueller?
16 A. Yes, it does.
17 MR. LONDON: We offer 155.
18 MR. LEEN: No objection.
19 THE COURT: It is admitted.
20 (Exhibit No. 155 was admitted.)
21 Q. (By Mr. London) 157. What is 157?
22 A. 157, again, an October 28th email message involving CIA in
23 Oregon that I downloaded from the Internet.
24 MR. LONDON: We offer 157.
25 MR. LEEN: No objection.
480
1 THE COURT: It's admitted.
2 (Exhibit No. 157 was admitted.)
3 Q. (By Mr. London) Please turn to 162.
4 A. Okay, I have it.
5 Q. What is 162?
6 A. This is a message again to the Cypherpunks list that I
7 downloaded from the Internet.
8 Q. Concerning Mr. Mueller and the CIA?
9 A. 162 is the one that is not -- no.
10 Q. What is that about?
11 A. This is the one, or this is a message which he says, in
12 discussing apparently government employees, "Under libertarian
13 principles they are fully guilty of initiating 'force and/or
14 fraud'. And there are no 'statutes of limitation' on our
15 response to these people regardless of current law.
16 "Now would be an excellent time for anyone to go to their
17 county voter's registration office, and order a copy of the
18 voter's registration database for current and future use."
19 MR. LONDON: We would offer 162.
20 MR. LEEN: No objection.
21 THE COURT: 162 is admitted.
22 (Exhibit No. 162 was admitted.)
23 Q. (By Mr. London) What is the date of that email?
24 A. October 30th.
25 Q. Would you turn to Exhibit 170 now. And as you look at that
481
1 exhibit, perhaps you can describe where you were on October
2 31st, at approximately 10:35 in the morning.
3 A. I was in my office, the Treasury Inspector General Office,
4 in Portland, Oregon.
5 Q. And what happened?
6 A. The fax machine started making the normal fax machine noises
7 when a fax comes in, and this is the exact document -- I've got
8 my initials and the date on the back -- that came in through the
9 fax machine.
10 Q. Now, about this time, had you been involved in discussions
11 with Mr. Bell or with Mr. Bell's attorney, Mr. Solovy, to
12 arrange the return of the guns that we heard testimony about
13 yesterday?
14 A. Yes. Actually --
15 Q. And his other property.
16 A. By this point, by October 31st, I had just simply shipped
17 all the property that -- all the other property back to Mr.
18 Bell's residence. Since we were at an impasse, we couldn't get
19 any instructions, so we shipped it to him directly, so we didn't
20 have that, but I couldn't do that with the guns. I needed
21 somebody to come and pick them up, so we had -- even after this
22 July 31st deadline had past, we had given another deadline to
23 his attorney to -- and that deadline, I believe, was either
24 October 31st or November 1st. I think it was November 1st, to
25 either have somebody pick up the guns or we were going to
482
1 destroy them. And that was what was going on at that point. We
2 had a fixed deadline of November 1st.
3 Q. So this fax came in, and what did it say?
4 A. Well, most of the fax was my original fax from July 31st.
5 That's the typed portion. But written on it was the, "How about
6 if I drop by your house tomorrow night with my designee to pick
7 up the four items? Or maybe you'd prefer at the address above?
8 Jim B."
9 Q. And what was the address above?
10 A. The address above is the U.S. Treasury Inspector General, my
11 office address, at 1220 Southwest Third in Portland, and it has
12 my phone number and my fax number on it.
13 MR. LONDON: All right. We offer 170.
14 MR. LEEN: No objection.
15 THE COURT: 170 is admitted.
16 (Exhibit No. 170 was admitted.)
17 MR. LONDON: And we would ask that that be published to
18 the jury.
19 Q. (Mr. London) The four items, is that a reference to the
20 four weapons?
21 A. I presume so, yes.
22 MR. LEEN: Objection, Your Honor. Move to strike.
23 Conclusion.
24 Q. (By Mr. London) Well, how many items remained for you --
25 THE COURT: Why don't you read it to the jury because
483
1 it looks very difficult to see.
2 A. It says, "How about if I drop by your house tomorrow night
3 with my designee to pick up the four items? Or maybe you'd
4 prefer at the address above? Jim B."
5 Q. (By Mr. London) Now, the original version of this with the
6 blue ink handwriting, that was recovered during the search at
7 Mr. Bell's house, correct?
8 A. Yes, that's what we have marked as Exhibit 171.
9 Q. So it's your understanding that what happened here is Mr.
10 Bell took a fax cover sheet, a fax that you had sent to him and
11 to Mr. Solovy, and simply wrote in hand that message, and then
12 faxed it back to you on October 31st?
13 A. That's correct.
14 Q. How is a facsimile transmitted from one person's computer or
15 fax machine to another person's?
16 A. Through the phone lines.
17 Q. And --
18 MR. LEEN: Objection, Your Honor. That's conclusory.
19 THE COURT: You can cross-examine him on it. It will
20 stand.
21 Go ahead.
22 Q. (By Mr. London) I'm sorry, can you repeat your answer?
23 A. Normally all the fax machines, generally speaking, that I'm
24 familiar with, are hooked to telephone lines. You plug them
25 into your telephone or to a telephone line. I know the one in
484
1 our office that receives -- the only way we receive faxes is
2 through the phone line. Our fax has a phone number, (503)
3 326-2246. That's our fax line, and it's plugged into the
4 telephone and you call into it, dial into it, and it answers and
5 receives the fax.
6 Q. All right. Are fax machines and telephone lines used
7 regularly as instruments in interstate commerce?
8 A. Yes.
9 MR. LEEN: Objection. Calls for a legal conclusion.
10 THE COURT: As to what he does?
11 MR. LEEN: No. He's asking about how -- about
12 telephone lines and interstate commerce and such. I'm saying
13 that's a legal conclusion.
14 THE COURT: As he uses them? Is that the objection?
15 MR. LEEN: No. As to whether or not this constitutes
16 interstate commerce, Your Honor. That's my objection. That's a
17 conclusion.
18 THE COURT: Well, he may answer.
19 A. Yes. In my experience, and certainly all the time we use
20 our fax, this particular fax machine, all the time to send faxes
21 to other offices and witnesses and all sorts of people across
22 state lines.
23 Q. (By Mr. London) Now, on November 4th -- please turn your
24 attention to Exhibits 184 and 185 -- did you see anything more
25 on the Internet indicating that Mr. Bell, perhaps, now had found
485
1 the home of Scott Mueller, this supposed CIA agent?
2 A. Yes. 184 is the original that I downloaded off the Internet
3 of, again, another CIA in Oregon email message. In this one, he
4 specifically -- it indicates that he's been out there, or
5 somebody's been out there because it gives specific information
6 about the residence. He says, "This address is a house in a
7 rather new subdivision," and he also says, "Two vehicles," and
8 he gives the license plates, "are in the driveway."
9 Q. All right.
10 MR. LONDON: We offer 184.
11 MR. LEEN: No objection.
12 THE COURT: 184 is admitted.
13 (Exhibit No. 184 was admitted.)
14 Q. (By Mr. London) Now, that was dated November 4th. Two days
15 later the search warrant was executed at Mr. Bell's residence at
16 7214 Corregidor, correct?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. All right. We've already talked about a lot of the items
19 that were recovered from the search. Are you familiar with all
20 of the CD-ROMs and phone disks and Department of Motor Vehicle
21 printouts and the spiral notebook with all the information
22 showing where he had been? Have you looked at all of that
23 evidence?
24 A. Yes, I have.
25 Q. Are you also familiar with the tax assessor printout?
486
1 A. Yes, I am.
2 Q. Turn to Exhibit 127, which I don't think anyone has talked
3 about yet.
4 A. Yes, I have it.
5 Q. What is 127?
6 A. This is a receipt that I found in Mr. Bell's bedroom during
7 the search.
8 Q. A receipt for what, issued by whom?
9 A. This was issued by Clark County and it's got an address in
10 Vancouver, Washington. It says it's received from Bell, is
11 handwritten in, and says "For 10 Assr," assessor, "prints."
12 Q. So what does that appear to be to you?
13 A. This appears to be the receipt, because it's dated
14 October 11, 2000, for the purchase of what I believe is
15 Exhibits 125 and 126. Those are also dated the same day,
16 October 11, 2000. The real property records for Jeffrey
17 Gordon are two different Jeffrey Gordons, apparently.
18 MR. LONDON: We offer 127.
19 MR. LEEN: No objection.
20 THE COURT: 127 is admitted.
21 (Exhibit No. 127 was admitted.)
22 Q. (By Mr. London) Now, you had been to the Bell residence on
23 a prior search warrant in 1997, correct?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. You were familiar with the layout of the house, correct?
487
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. What evidence was there when you went in October -- excuse
3 me -- November with the search warrant, when Mr. Bell was
4 actually living at that residence?
5 A. Well, Mr. Bell was present and actually asleep when we
6 arrived in the bedroom in the basement in the residence. His,
7 what appeared to be his, personal possessions were there and his
8 clothes. The documents all in the basement area all seemed to
9 be related to him.
10 Q. Is that where he had his computers?
11 A. There were two -- as I understand it, two computers in the
12 basement and an additional computer upstairs.
13 Q. Did Mr. Bell say anything at all to suggest that this was
14 not where he was actually living?
15 A. No.
16 Q. All right. Several days after the search warrant was
17 executed -- we are now on November 9th -- did you see an article
18 in the Columbian newspaper about Mr. Bell?
19 A. I don't recall the exact date, but I know I have seen
20 articles in the Columbian about him.
21 Q. Could you look at Exhibit 214, please.
22 A. Yes. This is an article that I cut out of the Columbian
23 myself. I've got my initials up in the corner.
24 Q. And what does it say about Mr. Bell, or what did you notice
25 in this article that might have caused you to be particularly
488
1 interested in it?
2 A. Well, he made what I consider admissions that he has been
3 using motor vehicle records and that specifically he had gone to
4 the homes of agents' houses and taken pictures. And, you know,
5 he reiterated, I guess, his feelings that we're absolutely
6 crooked, things like that. That was a concern.
7 Q. Now, the tracking device in his car, that had already been
8 installed several days earlier during the execution of the
9 search warrant, correct?
10 A. Yes. That was done on November 6th.
11 Q. Now, were you concerned enough about your safety that you
12 wanted to be able to have a way of monitoring the tracking
13 device yourself at home at night?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And what did you do to make sure that you could find out if
16 that tracking device was getting anywhere near you?
17 A. What I did is -- the system was kind of designed for this.
18 We set it up -- we told the system that if Mr. Bell left a
19 certain defined area, basically a couple miles square around his
20 house, so that it wouldn't notify us, for example, if he just
21 went to the store close by or went to get a drink, but if, you
22 know, he left that area, that it would alert my pager, and then
23 I would know to go and check the system so that we could see
24 where he was going. And I kept a list of as many targets as I
25 was aware of, or potential targets for him, of the various
489
1 people that I knew he was gathering information on so that I
2 could hopefully, if I saw him going somewhere, identify who he
3 was trying to go after and notify them or take whatever steps we
4 needed to do for their safety.
5 Q. And were you at home around 12:15, early in the morning of
6 November 10th?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And were you monitoring the device, or what were you doing
9 around that time?
10 A. Sleeping.
11 Q. And what happened?
12 A. The pager went off and alerted me. I went to the computer
13 and checked where Mr. Bell -- or where the device, the tracker
14 was.
15 Q. The display that the jury saw yesterday of the progression
16 of the tracking device going south across the river to the
17 residence on South Clackamas, were you able to see essentially
18 that same thing as it was happening in live time?
19 A. Yes. That's -- it looks very -- exactly like that only in
20 real time, so it's a lot slower because it's not in that fast,
21 fast pace mode.
22 Q. So you watched it, and what did you see?
23 A. I think by the time I got on, got on to see it, he was
24 already southbound. He had already crossed the border and was
25 south on 205. I wasn't sure -- 205 is a main artery, so I
490
1 wasn't sure where or what he was doing. I was concerned about
2 it because it was so late at night. That's an unusual time to
3 be doing a normal trip, so I continued to watch it to see if I
4 could figure out where he was going.
5 Q. And at what point did you figure out where he might be
6 headed?
7 A. At the point he turned on to South Clackamas River Drive, I
8 recognized that as the Groener/Andrews, the street that they
9 lived on.
10 Q. So what did you do?
11 A. I contacted -- the first thing I did was contact 911 and ask
12 them to have local units respond to the residence to see if they
13 could get out there as soon as possible to ensure the safety of
14 the residents.
15 Q. And did you try to call the residents yourself?
16 A. Yes, I did. I, I dialed Mr. Groener's phone number.
17 Q. And what happened?
18 A. I got put into -- I wasn't sure at the time whether it was a
19 voice mail machine or answering machine, and so I thought maybe
20 it was an answering machine and maybe he just wasn't answering
21 because it was so late at night, so I kind of shouted into it,
22 "Chris, Chris, if you're home, answer the phone. Answer the
23 phone. I need to talk to you," and I identified myself.
24 Q. Were you concerned about Agent McNall as well at this point?
25 A. No. I wasn't concerned about Agent McNall because I knew
491
1 that he no longer lived in that area. I was concerned about the
2 Andrews, I was concerned about Mr. Groener at the immediate
3 time. But I did know that -- did contact him because I knew he
4 was -- or I arranged to have him contacted because he was
5 familiar with the property and wasn't that far from it and could
6 respond to the scene.
7 Q. Did you call anybody else besides 911? Did you contact your
8 own supervisor?
9 A. Yes, I did. I contacted -- I stayed -- I was on line with
10 911. I contacted my supervisor. I contacted another treasury
11 agent in our office, had him respond to be with me in case we
12 needed to take some action or response. I placed him on alert,
13 and actually I had him make the call to ATF and try to get ahold
14 of Agent McNall and to alert ATF. I paged and tried to get
15 ahold of ATF's case agent to advise them that this was going
16 on.
17 Q. Now, you were aware that Mr. Bell was stopped by the
18 Clackamas County Sheriff's officers a few miles from the Groener
19 house, correct?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. But that he was also ultimately released that evening,
22 correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. The next morning, on November 11th, did you see an article
25 by Declan McCullagh on the Internet on Wired News in which Mr.
492
1 Bell was quoted talking about picketing your house?
2 A. I'm not sure of the exact date, but I recall a Wired News
3 article in regard to that.
4 Q. Would you look at Exhibit 229.
5 A. Yes. This is an article that I printed out myself.
6 Q. All right. And in that article, was Mr. Bell quoted as
7 saying that he was thinking very strongly of picketing Gordon's
8 house?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And that he was hopping mad and feeling very hostile and
11 that he was not going to be stopped?
12 A. Yeah. He said, "If you think this is going to stop me,
13 baloney."
14 Q. All right. So Mr. Bell had been present during the
15 execution of the federal search warrant and you were there,
16 correct?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. He had been stopped now just a few miles from his second
19 visit to the Groener property, correct?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And he was now telling the reporter that he was not going to
22 be stopped, correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. All right. And an arrest warrant was finally obtained for
25 him and he was arrested on November 17th. Were you present at
493
1 the scene?
2 A. I responded to the scene and arrived shortly after he was
3 detained in the car.
4 Q. He was stopped in his car?
5 A. Yes. In fact, we used the tracking device to help make the
6 arrest so we knew where he was driving and had the Vancouver
7 Police Department make a traffic stop on him, and as soon as
8 they got him pulled over, then I responded to the scene.
9 Q. All right. Now, his car was searched incident to the
10 arrest, correct?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And a number of items were found in there that you believed
13 to be relevant to this. Can you tell us what they are? And I
14 will direct your attention to Exhibit 235.
15 A. Yes. On the -- 235 is an item that I saw and found in the
16 car, and my initials are on the back of it. This is a photo
17 processing envelope that was sitting on the passenger seat in
18 the car.
19 Q. And can you look at 236?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. What is 236?
22 A. This is the -- one of the pictures that was inside the photo
23 processing envelope that we just spoke of. It's got my initials
24 again on the back. One of the pictures we found in the car.
25 Q. And do you know what that is a picture of?
494
1 A. Yes. That's -- we had some testimony on this earlier, I
2 believe. This is one of Mr. Mueller's -- I think it's his
3 previous residence.
4 MR. LONDON: We offer 236.
5 MR. LEEN: No objection.
6 THE COURT: 236 is admitted.
7 (Exhibit No. 236 was admitted.)
8 Q. (By Mr. London) And look at 237.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. What's 237?
11 A. 237, again, is an item that I found in the car and seized.
12 This is a receipt from -- while it's dated November 17th, which
13 is the date of the arrest, at 8:40 p.m., which is just prior --
14 the time just prior to the arrest, and it's for photo/elec,
15 which I assume to be electronics.
16 Q. Now --
17 MR. LONDON: We offer 237.
18 MR. LEEN: No objection.
19 MR. LONDON: And 235.
20 MR. LEEN: Let me look.
21 MR. LONDON: It's the envelope.
22 MR. LEEN: No objection.
23 THE COURT: 235 and 237 are admitted.
24 (Exhibits Nos. 235 and 237 were admitted.)
25 Q. (By Mr. London) Agent Gordon, have you had an opportunity
495
1 to do what we call a search using a search engine on the
2 Internet for Scott Mueller?
3 A. Yes, I have.
4 Q. What is -- describe for those of us who may be less savvy
5 about the Internet what a search engine is and how you run a
6 search for someone over the Internet?
7 A. Okay. There's many websites or web pages on the Internet.
8 There's millions and millions of them. There's lots of
9 information. And so if you're looking or are interested in a
10 particular subject or particular person, you don't know
11 necessarily what web page to go to, so there are various
12 companies or people out there that have set their computers to
13 go to each different web page and kind of catalog what's on that
14 site and to create an index, kind of like the card catalog at a
15 library. And so if you go to -- and that's the search engine
16 people. If you go to that search engine, you can type in what
17 you're looking for and it will go out and search its memory and
18 tell -- and point you or tell you which different web pages you
19 might want to try to find that information.
20 Q. So, for example, if you were to type in a name with the
21 search engine, essentially search all over the Internet various
22 websites and pull down all of the places where that name
23 appeared.
24 A. Different search engines use different methods of locating
25 it, but, yes, that's essentially what happens.
496
1 Q. All right. And what happened when you ran the name Scott
2 Mueller?
3 A. Well, I think I ran the full name -- did it a couple of
4 different ways. But when I run, for example, Scott Deforest
5 Mueller, those three names, I came back basically with the CIA
6 in Oregon Cypherpunks-type postings. In other words, the
7 postings that Mr. Bell made giving all his information.
8 Q. And outing Mr. Mueller as a CIA agent?
9 A. That's correct.
10 Q. Did you have a chance to observe or to look through Exhibit
11 137, which I have referred to as the stalking diary? This is
12 the spiral notebook that was found during the search of Mr.
13 Bell's home.
14 A. Yes, I have.
15 Q. And have you had a chance to see that, or whether there are
16 many telephone numbers recorded in that book?
17 A. Yes, there are.
18 Q. For various individuals?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Have you had a chance to compare the telephone numbers
21 recorded in this diary with Mr. Bell's telephone records from
22 the residence at 7214 Corregidor?
23 A. Yes, I have.
24 Q. And what does the comparison show?
25 A. It's not a perfect match. There are some phone numbers in
497
1 the diary -- some long distance numbers that are in the stalking
2 diary that aren't on his phone bills, but generally speaking,
3 quite a few of them are and matched up. In some cases when
4 there were dates in the diary and in some cases they matched
5 up. But there were some matches.
6 Q. All right. So -- but is it your testimony that on days
7 indicated in the diary in which telephone number information was
8 recorded, there's corresponding evidence in the phone records
9 that he was actually calling those numbers from his home, or
10 some of them?
11 A. Yes. Except that most of the diary doesn't really have
12 dates, so it's -- it's hard to correlate exact dates to days. I
13 think we have at least one example of it where it did match up.
14 But in general, yes. And there were certainly numbers that are
15 written down in the stalking diary that then the phone records
16 show -- where there are phone records available, show that they
17 have been called.
18 Q. All right. Did you have a chance to make up an exhibit or
19 kind of a diagram to show this?
20 A. Yes. Although the diagram that we have only relates to the
21 phone bills through a Uni-Tel. There was another phone provider
22 for some of the period of time, and those records, even though
23 the phone calls may be in here, weren't -- that's not included
24 in this chart.
25 Q. All right. I would ask you to look at Exhibit 180 and tell
498
1 us if that's the chart that you prepared showing that Mr. Bell
2 was actually telephoning some of the numbers that were also
3 found in his diary.
4 A. Yes. This is the chart that I prepared.
5 MR. LONDON: I would like to ask that that be
6 published.
7 MR. LEEN: No objection.
8 Q. (By Mr. London) Can you describe the information --
9 MR. LONDON: The jury needs to see it.
10 Q. (By Mr. London) Can you just describe how you prepared this
11 and what it shows?
12 A. Yes. On the left side is the --
13 THE COURT: They can't see. Members of the jury can't
14 see it.
15 MR. LONDON: Is that better? That's about as much as I
16 think we will be able to magnify it.
17 A. Okay. On the left side I tried --
18 THE COURT: Why don't you -- have you got a pointer?
19 MR. LONDON: You've got a pointer.
20 THE COURT: That might help.
21 MR. LONDON: Why don't you use that.
22 Q. (Mr. London) Okay.
23 A. Okay. So on the left side I have tried to put what the
24 stalking notebook, Exhibit 137, what it says and the page number
25 in parens, so for the first entry it's Larry Olstad with a phone
499
1 number 849-4635. That would be Exhibit 137, page 1. And then
2 on the other side, the right side after the line, I have put the
3 -- again, the phone number that was found on the Uni-Tel phone
4 bill and the dates that that number was called, the phone
5 records show it was called.
6 Q. All right. But you're not suggesting that these are phone
7 numbers of people who are actually being stalked, are you, these
8 are more -- how would you describe these numbers?
9 A. These are just numbers that are listed, and you can see, for
10 example, there's the assessor's office, or just various people.
11 They are not necessarily victims in the case. It just shows
12 that -- relates the stalking notebook to actual activity.
13 Q. All right. But there are -- do you see the third entry, the
14 Benton County, Washington, Assessor's Office?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Is the county assessor's office someplace where you can get
17 property records if you are looking for someone's address?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And the last, the King County Assessor, is that -- the same
20 question there?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And the second one, assessor/treasurer. What does that mean
23 to you?
24 A. The same thing, it's some sort of, most likely a county
25 office or something.
500
1 Q. It's got a 253 area code.
2 A. I think that's up in this area, the Pierce County area.
3 Q. You're a law enforcement agent, isn't that correct?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. You carry a gun as part of your everyday responsibilities,
6 correct?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. What would your answer be if someone were to say to you, why
9 are you afraid of this guy, or what reason, what cause do you
10 have to be afraid of this guy? You're the guy who's carrying
11 the gun. He's the guy who had to give up his guns.
12 A. Well, there's a lot of answers to that. One is that he's
13 clearly targeting me at my residence, at my home where my family
14 lives, so it's not just me, it's my family. It's not just when
15 I'm on duty or working as a law enforcement officer, where I
16 would normally be carrying my gun in antici- -- you know, have
17 it ready, but it could be while I'm sleeping at night or when
18 I'm not there.
19 There were -- but he's a person who's strongly advocated the
20 assassination of government officials, and specifically tax
21 officials.
22 He -- there's the whole chemical weapon issue, the fact that
23 he's at least stated that he's made Sarin gas, a highly
24 dangerous nerve agent. We found precursor-type chemicals for
25 that in his residence. He's got a degree in chemistry from MIT,
501
1 so he clearly has the ability to make those.
2 He's dumped chemicals in an IRS office in retaliation for
3 rela- -- comparatively minor, I guess, in retaliation for the
4 seizure of his vehicle. So what's he going to do because we put
5 him in jail?
6 And he's -- the time he spent in jail had no effect on him.
7 It -- or it certainly didn't deter him from this activity; it
8 increased it. He did -- or similar activity was coming after
9 agents in '97, and we put him in jail on supervised release, and
10 instead of learning from that, now he's even more aggresive and
11 escalating.
12 Q. In fact, in '97 he was never accused of actually showing up
13 at anybody's house, is that fair?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. What steps have you taken, if any, to try to increase your
16 security because of this?
17 A. I've purchased additional firearms for the family and the
18 house. I've installed the first part of the security system in
19 my residence and gotten an additional one. I've obtained an
20 anti-stalking order from the State of Oregon.
21 My -- I had to, you know, talk to my family about what steps
22 to take while Mr. Bell was still on the loose or before he was
23 in custody. I had to, you know, sit down with my wife and talk
24 about the situation, and she had, you know, started carrying
25 around a large firearm with her, you know. So.
502
1 I mean, every morning when I wake up, the first thing I do
2 is look out the window, or especially when he was -- look out
3 the window. When I walked out to my car, I check up and down
4 the street. When I come home I take evasive routes and check
5 the neighborhood, and if there's a car that gets off the freeway
6 behind me at the same time as I do, I turn a couple different
7 directions to go a different way to see if they are actually
8 following me or not.
9 Q. What would you say to the accusation, if it were to be made,
10 that you are just as obsessed with him as he is with you?
11 A. Well, from a -- maybe just from a defensive posture. I
12 would have been very happy had he gotten out of jail and just
13 completely left us alone or left me alone. I really took no
14 steps upon him being released from custody in April. I didn't
15 do -- go near him or do anything other than monitor public
16 information on the Internet, receive some phone calls when
17 people called me about him, and that's basically it. I didn't
18 try to arrange -- continue, which I had been for at least a year
19 prior, continue to try to arrange the return of his property
20 back to him.
21 Q. There's been some suggestion, I guess by counsel, that Mr.
22 Bell's accessing or his use of the Department of Motor Vehicles
23 database is perfectly legal. Is that your understanding?
24 A. No, it's not.
25 Q. What laws govern the use of the Department of Motor Vehicle
503
1 materials, such as the material that he has on CD-ROMs and has
2 been using to search for your address and the addresses of
3 others?
4 A. There's both state and federal laws restricting the use of
5 DMV data, especially the more recent stuff. In response to some
6 of these stalking and harassment problems that there have been,
7 the government passed, I think it's 2712 -- I don't remember
8 exactly what statute it was -- that restricts what you can use
9 and how -- who can obtain the DMV data and what you can use it
10 for.
11 Q. In fact, doesn't it restrict its lawful use to those who are
12 going to use it for commercial purposes?
13 A. Yes. There's several uses. For example, law enforcement
14 can use it or various -- but essentially that's one of the uses,
15 is for those who are using it for commercial or marketing
16 purposes.
17 Q. All right. Are you aware that agents who work with you have
18 tried to obtain a sample of Mr. Bell's handwriting pursuant to
19 an order of this court?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Did Mr. Bell comply?
22 A. No, he did not.
23 Q. Does that explain why there's no handwriting comparison in
24 this case comparing his handwriting to the handwriting in the
25 notebooks?
504
1 A. That's correct. We were unable to -- we obtained the order
2 from the court to have Mr. Bell give us exact handwriting
3 samples. The examiners need the same handwriting that appears,
4 the same words, and they need it multiple times in order to make
5 a scientific comparison to see if it's that individual's
6 handwriting. And when the agents on -- after having coordinated
7 with Mr. Bell's attorney prior to going out to the prison, went
8 there twice to give him the opportunity to obey the court order,
9 and both times he refused to even meet with them.
10 MR. LONDON: Nothing further.
11 THE COURT: Cross-examination.
12 CROSS-EXAMINATION
13 BY MR. LEEN:
14 Q. Good morning, Agent Gordon.
15 A. Good morning, Mr. Leen.
16 Q. In the course of investigating Mr. Bell, you used the
17 Internet.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And did searches on the Internet.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Much the way Mr. Bell did searches on the Internet.
22 A. Presumably.
23 Q. You did cross-references of telephone directories.
24 A. On occasion.
25 Q. Much the way Mr. Bell did cross-references of telephone
505
1 directories.
2 A. I didn't use it exactly the same, but there -- the way he
3 did it, but similar.
4 Q. When did you first open a file on Mr. Bell?
5 A. October '96.
6 Q. When was Mr. Bell's vehicle seized?
7 A. February '97.
8 Q. Were you aware that it was going to be seized?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Were you involved at all in the decision to seize his
11 vehicle?
12 A. I was in -- the final decision wasn't mine, but I certainly
13 had a lot of involvement in the process.
14 Q. When the vehicle was seized, was there a copy of
15 Assassination Politics, that is a hard copy, in the vehicle?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Was that the first time you had become aware of that
18 article?
19 A. No.
20 Q. You had become aware of it through an Internet search or --
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. -- somehow or another were directed to it on line?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did you pull up tax records from databases regarding Mr.
25 Bell?
506
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Did you monitor on the Internet Cypherpunk list any email
3 Mr. Bell may have written or email that was written to Mr. Bell?
4 A. At what time period?
5 Q. Well, after -- any time after you opened the file.
6 A. Later on, yes.
7 Q. Were you aware that there was a Special Agent Walsh using
8 the name Steve Wilson sent to infiltrate the Multnomah County
9 Common Law Court?
10 A. I wouldn't describe it like that.
11 Q. How would you describe it?
12 A. Well, he -- I was certainly aware of Agent Walsh and the
13 undercover operation that we had going. His -- his mission was
14 not to infiltrate the common law court, though.
15 Q. Was his mission to monitor Mr. Bell?
16 A. His mission was essentially to determine what Operation
17 Locate IRS was and to determine if Mr. Bell or anybody else
18 planned to harm any Internal Revenue Service agents.
19 Q. Were you aware that Mr. Wilson, under the name Steve Wilson,
20 Agent Walsh was communicating email to Mr. Bell?
21 A. Certainly, yes.
22 Q. Were you aware that some of that email indicated that Steve
23 Wilson thought that the government was acting out of control and
24 were a bunch of crooks and much of the same type of rhetoric
25 that Mr. Bell had been himself writing in emails?
507
1 A. I don't recall those specific words, and I don't think there
2 was a whole lot of that, but certainly he was playing that role.
3 Q. Were you aware that Agent Walsh asked Mr. Bell to build for
4 him or supply to him an illegal fm transmitter?
5 A. In fact, I'm specifically aware that that never happened.
6 Q. Are you aware that Special Agent Walsh contacted Mr. Bell
7 numerous times outside the Multnomah County Common Law Court?
8 A. I wouldn't describe it as -- well, it depends on your
9 definition, numerous. On occasion, yes.
10 Q. And met with him?
11 A. On one -- I believe one occasion, yes.
12 Q. Now, you said that Mr. Bell was using Mr. East's house for
13 phone calls and as a mail drop.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And when did that occur?
16 A. That was occurring in that same time frame. I think on his
17 employment application, which was actually around October '96,
18 he had used Mr. East's address and phone number -- I believe
19 phone number. I know that at one point Agent Walsh received
20 what we believed was a call from Mr. Bell, caller ID, identified
21 it as coming from Robert East's house, and that would probably
22 have been around May of '97.
23 Q. All right. Now, you indi- -- when Mr. Bell's vehicle was
24 seized for payment of back taxes, approximately how much money
25 did he owe?
508
1 A. You know, I don't recall exactly, and it depends on how you
2 define what you owe, because there was audit things going on.
3 Q. The principal amount, as opposed to with interest.
4 A. I think it was somewhere around 50,000, but it could have
5 been down from that.
6 Q. Are you aware of how he incurred that tax, what kind of
7 income he had generated prior to that which he had not paid
8 taxes on?
9 A. Yeah. There was multiple years of it. There were stock
10 sales in some years, and then there was a big hundred-thousand-
11 dollar payment of some sort back in the late '80s that he had
12 never -- I don't believe he had ever filed a tax return related
13 to, so they audited him to assess taxes on it.
14 Q. Were you aware that Mr. Bell actually was -- ran a business
15 at one time?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And do you know anything about the particulars of that
18 business?
19 A. I've heard about the business and also some of the IRS side
20 of that, yes.
21 Q. And what type of business was that?
22 A. I think it was called Semi-Disk Systems, or something
23 relating to computer components or something like that.
24 Q. So at one point he was a legitimate businessman.
25 A. Well, I've heard different stories about that.
509
1 Q. Now, Mr. Bell is not being prosecuted for having authored
2 Assassination Politics, is he?
3 A. No.
4 Q. And he's not being prosecuted for the chemicals that were
5 recovered from his house in 1997, is he?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Did you, when you searched his residence in November of
8 2000, I think it was November 6 of 2000, did you recover any
9 firearms?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Did you recover any precursor chemicals to make nerve gas or
12 other dangerous substances?
13 A. There were dangerous substances there, but we didn't take
14 them.
15 Q. In particular, what were they?
16 A. There was a list that haz-mat gave me -- or hazardous
17 material guys gave me. I know mercury, or -- there were some
18 chemicals there.
19 Q. Now, you're aware that Mr. Bell is a chemist.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And you're aware that his -- you've interviewed his parents,
22 or agents that are working with you have interviewed his
23 parents.
24 A. Agents that are working with me have, yes.
25 Q. And you're aware that he's been a hobbyist in chemistry
510
1 since he was a preteen.
2 A. I've heard that, yes.
3 Q. And you're aware that he was exceptionally bright, is
4 exceptionally bright.
5 A. People say that, yes.
6 Q. And he attended Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
7 A. Yes, I confirmed that, yes.
8 Q. And he graduated.
9 A. I believe so, yes.
10 Q. And do you know approximately when?
11 A. Late '70s or '80s, something like that.
12 Q. You've indicated that you returned the weapons that had been
13 seized in 1997 from Mr. Bell, you returned them to Robert East.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Why did you return them to Robert East if you felt that he
16 was an associate of Mr. Bell?
17 A. Because the United States Attorney's Office advised me that
18 I had no legal means to maintain them. That I was required by
19 law to return them. They were Mr. Bell's property, and I was
20 required to return them, and so at that point it was his choice
21 to -- or his attorney's choice as to his designee as to who he
22 wanted to have them, and our only requirement was that it was a
23 person who was legally entitled to possess them. And since Mr.
24 East is legally entitled to possess firearms and Mr. Bell
25 designated him to be his designee, apparently, I returned them
511
1 to him.
2 Q. Have you ever seen those weapons again?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Now, there was a tracking device placed in Mr. Bell's
5 vehicle at the same time that the search warrant took place on
6 November 6th.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Were there any tracking devices ever placed in Mr. Bell's
9 residence -- vehicle prior to November 6th, 2000, that you're
10 aware of?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Was there any monitoring of Mr. Bell from residents in the
13 neighborhood prior to November 6 -- well, let's start first,
14 prior to November 6th, 2000?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Was there any monitoring at all of Mr. Bell's activities
17 other than what we've just discussed and your reading of public
18 emails prior to November 6th, 2000?
19 A. Well, certainly we did -- when you say monitoring, I mean,
20 we were keeping him -- you know, when he's at the court. We had
21 Agent Walsh, for example, in contact with him. But if you're
22 talking about electronic monitoring or surveillance teams, I
23 think, for example, the day of the -- that the IRS seized his
24 vehicle, we had a team out watching for the vehicle that day.
25 But other than that, there was no sustained effort. There was
512
1 no wire taps or bugs or electronic microwaves or anything like
2 that.
3 Q. Was his phone ever listened to?
4 A. The only electronic monitoring of the phone was when Agent
5 Walsh made phone calls with Mr. Bell or received phone calls
6 from Mr. Bell's, we used one-party consensual monitoring on
7 that, which we are legally entitled to do. And so we tape
8 recorded, and we consider that electronic monitoring. We
9 electronically monitored the calls between Agent Walsh and Mr.
10 Bell.
11 MR. LONDON: I just want to ask for clarification of
12 the time when that happened.
13 THE WITNESS: That would have been in 1997, prior to
14 Mr. Bell's arrest, when we had the undercover operation going
15 on.
16 Q. (By Mr. Leen) Now, Mr. Bell isn't being prosecuted for
17 anything that happened prior to 1997, is he?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Or prior to 1998?
20 A. No.
21 Q. In fact, he's not being prosecuted for anything other than
22 the specific dates and crimes in the indictment, is that
23 correct?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Now, when you first saw the email, "Say Good Night to
513
1 Joshua," did you know who Joshua was?
2 A. I presumed it was the son of a law enforcement officer, but
3 I did not know who, no.
4 Q. You don't have a son named Joshua?
5 A. No.
6 Q. When did you start monitoring the Cypherpunks mail list?
7 A. Probably late -- mid to late '97.
8 Q. So this was a couple of years prior to Mr. -- to these
9 present acts that Mr. Bell is under prosecution for?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Now, you indicated that you received a facsimile dated
12 10/31/2000 which was a response facsimile to yours.
13 A. I don't think --
14 Q. That was a bad question, actually. Let me rephrase it.
15 You sent a letter or a facsimile to Mr. Solovy, who was the
16 attorney at that time who represented Mr. Bell.
17 A. In July I had sent a -- that fax with my fax cover sheet to
18 Mr. Solovy, yes.
19 Q. And that -- that was related to the four firearms?
20 A. I think at the time it was related to all the property, or
21 the majority of the property, because in July I hadn't returned
22 any of it, or hadn't returned most of it yet.
23 Q. In fact, you still haven't returned two of the computers
24 that were seized in 1997.
25 A. Right. We had one of them in here the other day for the
514
1 testimony.
2 Q. Now, then, on October 31st, Mr. Bell sent the facsimile to
3 you which we've seen here with the handwriting on it.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Is that correct? Did Mr. Bell ever direct any other
6 facsimile to you, that you're aware of?
7 A. No.
8 Q. So that was the only one instance?
9 A. The only fax.
10 Q. Now, does -- are you aware that you can send facsimiles by
11 computer?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. You can scan and -- you can scan documents onto a computer
14 and then facsimile it from a computer.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And you're aware that Mr. Bell's computer had cable access,
17 not telephone access.
18 A. Right.
19 Q. You were present at the November 6th search of Mr. Bell's
20 residence.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Now, you indicated that when the tracking device was put on
23 Mr. Bell's car there was a list of persons that you were
24 concerned that he might injure or harm in some way.
25 A. Yes.
515
1 Q. Your name was on the list.
2 A. Actually, many Jeff Gordons were on the list.
3 Q. All right. And Mike McNall's name was on the list.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. You told us about Mr. Groener and Mr. Andrews. They live
6 next door to each other.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Who else was on the list?
9 A. Peter Avenia was one, Mr. Bell's prior attorney.
10 Q. Anyone else?
11 A. Yes. There was another -- I believe there was another
12 defense attorney that had somehow been involved in his case that
13 he had been looking up his address to.
14 Q. Anyone else, that you can recall?
15 A. I believe there were several more, but I can't remember who
16 right now.
17 Q. Now, you obtained a no-contact order at some point.
18 A. Yeah. An anti-stalking order, I believe.
19 Q. And that was after Mr. Bell was actually in custody and
20 arrested on these charges?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. But not prior to his arrest?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Now, you've referred to his -- Mr. Bell's spiral notebook as
25 a stalking diary.
516
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Does it say "stalking diary" on it?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Those are your words, a stalking diary?
5 A. I usually don't use the word "diary." I usually refer to it
6 like a stalking notebook.
7 Q. Does it have information that Mr. Bell has accumulated over
8 -- since his release from custody?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. You have indicated that the DMV records are not available to
11 private citizens unless they meet certain statutory categories,
12 such as businessman for marketing purposes, things like that.
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. When did those laws go into effect?
15 A. A couple of years ago, I think.
16 Q. Do you know when?
17 A. Not off hand, no.
18 Q. Did you speak to the individual who sold Mr. Bell the DMV
19 database CD-ROM?
20 A. Yes. Or -- at least one of them, yes.
21 Q. And when an individual purchases one of those by statute,
22 aren't they supposed to sign a certain form?
23 A. I don't know whether -- I don't believe the statute
24 specifically requires the form to be signed, but this individual
25 wanted people to sign it, yes.
517
1 Q. Was he able to produce it, the form that Mr. Bell signed?
2 A. No.
3 MR. LEEN: One second.
4 No further questions. Thank you.
5 THE COURT: Redirect.
6 MR. LONDON: Very briefly,
7 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
8 BY MR. LONDON:
9 Q. Agent Gordon, when you send a facsimile using a computer, as
10 opposed to a stand-alone fax machine, you're doing it from the
11 computer that is essentially functioning as a fax machine,
12 correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And, in fact, doesn't a computer that can do that have all
15 of the technology that a stand-alone fax machine has built into
16 it?
17 A. For sending the fax. It might not have the same printing
18 capabilities.
19 Q. All right. But if Mr. Leen asked you if it was possible or
20 suggested that it was possible that Mr. Bell might have scanned
21 your cover sheet into his computer with his handwritten notes on
22 it and then sent it via his computer as opposed to a stand-alone
23 separate fax machine and it was that way that the note had been
24 sent.
25 A. Well, it couldn't have been sent over a cable modem because
518
1 at some point it had to go through the phone lines because my
2 fax machine is not hooked to the Internet. It's only hooked to
3 the phone line. So there's no way that that fax can be sent to
4 my fax machine without using the phone lines.
5 Q. In the 1997 undercover work by Mr. Walsh of the Multnomah
6 County, so-called, Common Law Court, was there any political
7 motivation ever discussed, that you're aware of, for the
8 infiltration, as it's been termed, of that group?
9 A. No. And, in fact, the decision to have him go to the court
10 was made only because that was the only way we could think of to
11 get him in contact with Mr. Bell to find out what was going on.
12 Q. Did the decision to investigate Mr. Bell or try to find out
13 more about him in '97 depend on Assassination Politics or upon
14 Operation Locate IRS?
15 A. It was probably a combination of both. The fact that he was
16 on the one hand proposing, or at least discussing the
17 assassination of the government officials, and in particular tax
18 agents, as a, you know, a philosophy, and at the same time what
19 was apparent to us, imple- -- taking steps towards that by
20 actually gathering up the names and home addresses which was, if
21 you were going to be implementing or if you were going to try to
22 get a jump start by killing off some agents to start the
23 assassination process, that would be the first step.
24 Q. I guess another way to ask the question is, if you hadn't
25 known about Operation Locate IRS but you had known that you had
519
1 simply the author here of an essay entitled "Assassination
2 Politics," that's all you had known, would you have decided to
3 open an investigation as a matter of internal security for the
4 Internal Revenue Service?
5 A. No. I -- you know, in just reading the Internet as a casual
6 user, even, I come across inflammatory anti-government rhetoric
7 all the time. It doesn't make me happy and sometimes it's, you
8 know, upsetting, but we don't investigate that. It was the acts
9 in particular of gathering up the names and home addresses of
10 this operation that was apparently going on with the common law
11 court on top of the assassination plan or discussion that made
12 it -- got it to the point that we needed to investigate.
13 Q. As a law enforcement officer, are you legally permitted to
14 access various databases as a legitimate investigative tool?
15 A. Yes.
16 MR. LONDON: Nothing further.
17 THE COURT: Recross.
18 MR. LEEN: No further questions, Your Honor.
19 THE COURT: The witness may step down.
20 We will take a 15 minute recess.
21 Jury is cautioned, please do not discuss the case among
22 yourself or with anyone.
23 Please go to the jury room.
24 (Jury excused at 10:50 a.m.)
25 THE COURT: Anything to take up, either party?
520
1 MR. LEEN: No, Your Honor.
2 THE COURT: All right.
3 (Recessed at 10:50 a.m.)
4 (Jury not present; 11:15 a.m.)
5 THE COURT: Where are we?
6 MR. LONDON: Your Honor, I am almost ready to rest. I
7 just wanted do briefly recall Agent Gordon to the stand for two
8 or three short questions.
9 THE COURT: Then what's going to happen?
10 MR. LONDON: Then we're going to rest. And then I
11 understand Mr. Leen has some motions to be taken up outside the
12 presence of the jury.
13 THE COURT: Bring the jury.
14 (Jury present; 11:16 a.m.)
15 THE COURT: Jury's returned.
16 Government.
17 MR. LONDON: Yes. Just a few final questions of Agent
18 Gordon.
19 THE COURT: Are you recalling the witness?
20 MR. LONDON: We're recalling Agent Gordon.
21 THE COURT: All right.
22 JEFFREY GORDON, PLAINTIFF'S WITNESS, RECALLED
23 DIRECT EXAMINATION
24 BY MR. LONDON:
25 Q. Agent, just a reminder, you are still under oath. I just
521
1 want to ask you one or two questions.
2 When you were present at the search warrant at Mr. Bell's
3 residence on November 6th, did you observe a fax machine next to
4 his computer?
5 A. Yes, I did.
6 Q. Where in the house was this?
7 A. I noticed one in the upstairs next to the computer
8 between -- there's like a bar between the kitchen and the dining
9 room area.
10 Q. All right. Now, the fax message that you received at your
11 office for which there's a telephone record showing it as a
12 telephone transmission from Mr. Bell's residence, could that be
13 shown on the telephone record, if that fax had been sent from a
14 computer other than through a phone line?
15 A. Well, no. I mean, it clearly shows on the Exhibit 178 on
16 the phone bill that the phone -- the phone call that we received
17 that generated the fax came to my fax machine, (503) 326-2246
18 from Mr. Bell's residence, so it couldn't have come through a
19 cable modem. It has to be coming through the phone lines at the
20 residence.
21 Q. All right. You had a chance to observe the satellite
22 display, the tracking display for the tracking device for
23 November 10th when it moved from the vicinity of Mr. Bell's home
24 on Corregidor in Vancouver and went to the McNall residence on
25 South Clackamas River Drive, correct?
522
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And it appeared at all relevant times to be traveling on
3 roads or the road systems, correct?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Federal and state.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Based on your knowledge and experience, are the roads of the
8 United States and the states used for the purpose of conducting
9 interstate commerce?
10 A. Yes, they are.
11 MR. LONDON: Nothing further.
12 THE COURT: Cross-examination.
13 MR. LEEN: No questions.
14 THE COURT: The witness may step down.
15 (Witness excused.)
16 THE COURT: Next witness.
17 MR. LONDON: The United States rests.
18 THE COURT: Okay.
19 MR. LEEN: Your Honor, the defense would like to make
20 some motions outside the jury's presence.
21 THE COURT: How long do you think it's going to take?
22 MR. LEEN: Ten minutes.
23 THE COURT: Please go back to the jury room. Still do
24 not discuss the case among yourselves or with anyone else.
25 (Jury excused; 11:20 a.m.)
523
1 THE COURT: Mr. Leen.
2 MR. LEEN: Yes.
3 THE COURT: Before, the court wishes to put something
4 on the record.
5 MR. LEEN: Yes, sir.
6 THE COURT: The court -- the record should reflect the
7 court has observed the defendant and defendant's counsel, Mr.
8 Leen, discuss the testimony of each and every witness called by
9 the government in this case. The conversations and the
10 exchanges between the defendant and his counsel always appeared
11 to be congenial to the court, and the court considers that the
12 defendant has cooperated and participated with his attorney in
13 his defense.
14 What have you got to say? What are your motions, Mr. Leen?
15 MR. LEEN: Yes, Your Honor. I would just like to
16 respond to the court's comment.
17 THE COURT: It doesn't call for a response.
18 MR. LEEN: Yes, sir.
19 Rule 20 -- the defense makes a Rule 29 motion for verdict of
20 acquittal.
21 THE COURT: You had better go to the podium.
22 MR. LEEN: Oh, yes, sir.
23 Thank you, Your Honor.
24 We are now at the end of the state's case in chief. The
25 defense would move for a verdict of acquittal pursuant to Rule
524
1 29. As to each and every count of the indictment -- of the
2 superseding indictment the defense would submit that there is
3 insufficient evidence as a matter of law to make a prima facie
4 case.
5 As it relates to count one -- we would also -- well, I will
6 just start with the sufficiency.
7 There was insufficient evidence that Mike McNall was in
8 reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury to himself or
9 to his immediate family based on the evidence that was adduced
10 during his examination.
11 THE COURT: Wait a minute. Why don't we go through
12 each count so I can keep track of your argument.
13 MR. LEEN: Okay.
14 THE COURT: Under the superseding indictment.
15 MR. LEEN: Yes, sir. And I will start with count one.
16 THE COURT: All right.
17 MR. LEEN: As to count one, we have two reasons why we
18 believe it should be dismissed. One has to do with sufficiency,
19 the other has to do with constitutionality.
20 As it relates to sufficiency, Mr. McNall, I believe,
21 testified that Mr. Bell's behavior caused him to have concerns.
22 I don't believe that that's sufficient from which a jury could
23 conclude or from which the court could conclude that there has
24 been a prima facie showing that he was in reasonable fear of
25 death or serious bodily injury to himself and to his immediate
525
1 family.
2 Also, as it relates to count one, we -- we would submit that
3 count one is an unconstitutional exercise of the commerce power
4 and therefore should be dismissed as an unconstitutional charge.
5 THE COURT: That motion will be denied.
6 MR. LEEN: As to count two, we would submit that as a
7 matter of law there is insufficient evidence to establish that
8 Mr. Bell traveled across the state line with the intent to
9 injure or harass Jeff Gordon, and also that there was -- as a
10 matter of constitutional law, that count two, which is the same
11 statute as count one, but we will adopt that same argument, was
12 an unconstitutional exercise of the commerce clause.
13 THE COURT: Well, if the question of constitutionality
14 to the first count applies to count one, doesn't it apply to all
15 the counts?
16 MR. LEEN: I would think so. But I would raise it
17 anyway.
18 THE COURT: Same ruling.
19 MR. LEEN: Yes, sir.
20 THE COURT: On the constitutionality.
21 Next?
22 MR. LEEN: As to count three, Your Honor, there are a
23 couple of arguments. First, count three requires that the
24 defendant use a facility in interstate commerce, and I think
25 that a telephone line would qualify for that, to engage in a
526
1 course of conduct. There has been testimony of one specific
2 isolated instance where a facsimile line was used and a
3 telephone line was used. We would submit that that does not --
4 a single isolated instance does not constitute a course of
5 conduct.
6 We would also argue that the statute, which is a different
7 statute than the one in count one and count two, is an
8 unconstitutional exercise of the commerce clause.
9 THE COURT: Same ruling as to constitution. I will
10 deny that.
11 Let me ask that question. Is there some law out there that
12 shows the number that must be made, telephone calls, to
13 constitute a pattern or course of conduct?
14 MR. LEEN: Well, pattern in other criminal statutes
15 requires two or more. Some require three. But a course of
16 conduct, we would submit as a matter of law, is more than a
17 single instance. If the congress wanted to say --
18 THE COURT: I can't threaten you, as a matter of law,
19 by one phone call?
20 MR. LEEN: You can, but that doesn't constitute a
21 course of conduct. It would be a different statute you would
22 have to use.
23 THE COURT: Isn't that a question of fact for the jury
24 instead of law?
25 MR. LEEN: I think it's a question -- there has to be
527
1 two or more to constitute a course of conduct.
2 THE COURT: Go ahead.
3 MR. LEEN: As to count three, this was an amendment to
4 what is charged in count one and count two, and our argument --
5 and I filed a memorandum on the point. I feel that it's -- the
6 statute, the indictment in count four fails to comply with the
7 requirement of Rule 7(a), I believe it is -- I will just double
8 check. I don't have it here, but the indictment requires that
9 it track the statute and allege each and every material element
10 of the offense. While count four tracks the 1996 statute, it
11 does not track the 199 -- the 2000 statute. The 2000 statute
12 does not say --
13 THE COURT: Mr. Leen, let's do this.
14 MR. LEEN: Yes.
15 THE COURT: Are you going to present any evidence?
16 MR. LEEN: We will present a case, yes.
17 THE COURT: You will. Let's do this. Let's dismiss
18 the jury and have them come back at one o'clock. Instead of
19 having them sitting there.
20 MR. LEEN: Sure.
21 THE COURT: Bring them back for two minutes.
22 Tell them to go to jury -- go to lunch, do not discuss the
23 case among themselves or anyone else. Be back in the jury room
24 at one o'clock.
25 (Mr. Leever excused the jury.)
528
1 THE COURT: Go ahead.
2 MR. LEEN: It does not track the statute, Your Honor.
3 It requires that Mr. Bell did travel in interstate commerce, and
4 the indictment alleges that he merely traveled from a state line
5 -- across a state line from one state to another.
6 Now, the prosecutor has argued to the court, and the court
7 has pointed out, that the -- that courts in this circuit and
8 other circuits have said crossing from one state to another
9 constitutes the same thing as interstate commerce, but the
10 statute -- excuse me -- but the indictment does not allege
11 that. And so while it's a question of fact from which the jury
12 could find that, it doesn't allege the element of interstate
13 commerce.
14 Also, Mr. Mueller was completely unaware of the fact of the
15 travel, completely unaware of whatever Mr. Bell's intent for
16 doing the traveling, until he was notified, I think several
17 days, if not weeks, later. And so as far as -- as far as Mr.
18 Mueller was concerned, there was no crime, that he had a
19 reasonable fear to be of death or serious bodily injury to
20 himself or his family, until such time as he was notified by
21 Agent Gordon that he should be in reasonable fear because of
22 what Mr. Bell's activities were.
23 And I would just adopt that argument again as it relates to
24 Mike McNall in count one. He was completely unaware of any of
25 Mr. Bell's activities until notified days, if not weeks, later
529
1 by Agent Gordon.
2 Finally, as to count five, we just -- the same arguments
3 apply as to the 2000 statute. It doesn't -- the indictment,
4 which is based on the 2000 statute. It does not allege travel
5 in interstate commerce. It merely alleges in the charging
6 language in count five that he traveled from one state to
7 another, and that Agent McNall did not testify to facts
8 sufficient from which it could be concluded that he was in
9 reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury to himself or
10 his immediate family. Also, he was unaware of Mr. Bell's
11 activities until notified by Jeff Gordon days, if not weeks,
12 later.
13 THE COURT: Okay. Government.
14 MR. LEEN: May I also make my motion for mistrial?
15 I renew my motion for mistrial that I have made during the
16 course of the trial, renew it again at this time.
17 THE COURT: All right.
18 MR. LEEN: Thank you.
19 MR. LONDON: Your Honor, with regard to the
20 awareness --
21 THE COURT: Go to the podium.
22 Go to the podium, counsel.
23 MR. LONDON: With regard to the awareness of the
24 victims, there's nothing --
25 THE COURT: Let's take them as they come. Count one.
530
1 MR. LONDON: I won't address the constitutionality or
2 commerce clause issue in view of the fact that the court appears
3 to have decided on that.
4 THE COURT: Um-hmm.
5 MR. LONDON: The allegation is there's insufficient
6 evidence of fear by Mr. McNall. That was the first basis of an
7 alleged deficiency in proof.
8 Mr. McNall not only testified that he was concerned, but he
9 testified as to a number of steps that he took in reaction to
10 learning that Mr. Bell had drawn a beat on him, was trying to
11 find his house, and had actually found the last residence that
12 he had lived at before moving to his current residence. He
13 testified about discussing added security measures with his
14 agency, ATF. He changed the travel plans to be able to stick
15 around. He testified about at least one work-related trip that
16 he decided to forgo so that he could be there to protect his
17 family.
18 I think that you can certainly interpolate from those steps
19 the fact that he was extremely concerned and fearful about this
20 gentleman's intentions towards him.
21 With regard to whether he ever would have learned about Mr.
22 Bell's stalking of him without being notified by Chris Groener
23 that he had shown up at the house, or without being notified by
24 Jeff Gordon that there were emails up there on the Internet
25 talking about him and Ryan Lund, that's irrelevant. There's
531
1 nothing in the statute that requires that the victim learn of
2 this until, unfortunately, it's too late, when the guy shows up
3 on his doorstep. The critical thing is, if it's reasonable for
4 the victim to have found out in the way he did, then
5 unfortunately, Mr. Bell has to take his victim's awareness in
6 the way that he finds them.
7 Mr. Bell was posting things publicly to the Internet. He
8 knew from his prior prosecution and from the investigation that
9 law enforcement was watching what he was doing on the Internet.
10 You can't -- you can't go out there and do this stuff and think
11 that there's no chance that your victims are going to find out
12 until it's too late.
13 THE COURT: Are you saying that there's nothing in the
14 statute that says that -- under the stalking statute that says
15 that somebody gets the first bite?
16 MR. LONDON: What I'm saying is that there's nothing
17 that says under the stalking statute that the victim can't learn
18 about the stalking --
19 THE COURT: Well, what I'm asking --
20 MR. LONDON: -- by being notified by law enforcement.
21 THE COURT: What I'm saying is, when I say the first
22 bite, the alleged stalker, surely under the statute, doesn't get
23 a chance to physically do something to the person, are they?
24 MR. LONDON: That is exactly my point.
25 THE COURT: That's what I mean by the first bite.
532
1 MR. LONDON: Right. The first bite. The rest is --
2 THE COURT: So what you're saying, it doesn't make any
3 difference how the target of the alleged stalker finds out about
4 it. The fact he does find out about it is sufficient under the
5 statute.
6 MR. LONDON: Yes, Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: Okay.
8 MR. LONDON: So that goes not only for Mr. McNall, who
9 learned in two different ways, one when Chris Groener called him
10 up and said Mr. Bell had been at in his back yard, but also when
11 Agent Gordon notified him that his name, McNall's name, was
12 showing up in emails posted to the Internet by the defendant.
13 With regard to Mr. Mueller, the gentleman in Bend who Mr.
14 Bell outed as a CIA agent, true enough, he never knew about Mr.
15 Bell's activities until he was notified by law enforcement, but
16 once again, Mr. Bell has to take his victims as he finds them,
17 and it's a legitimate thing for law enforcement to notify
18 somebody before it's too late that he is the subject of an
19 excessive campaign by an individual to intimidate or harass him
20 by outing him as a CIA agent and posting that on the Internet
21 for all the world to see.
22 It's a curious argument that is made because if Mr. Bell --
23 if law enforcement waited, if we were aware of what this
24 gentleman was doing and we did not notify potential victims of
25 what he was doing and then someone got hurt, can there be any
533
1 doubt that the victims' families would be suing us for
2 malfeasance of duty?
3 THE COURT: Let me ask a question. So the government's
4 position on all five counts -- let me ask you this. Has the
5 writing -- what's the name of it, that's been circulated over
6 the Internet?
7 MR. LONDON: His essay originally?
8 THE COURT: Uh-huh.
9 MR. LONDON: It's Assassination Politics. It's out
10 there on the Internet.
11 THE COURT: In the government's opinion, is that
12 sufficient to put people on the alert?
13 MR. LONDON: Absolute ---it's sufficient to put people
14 on the alert. I wouldn't say that if that's all that he had
15 done that it would be sufficient for us to charge him with
16 anything, unless he coupled it with a reference to a particular
17 individual.
18 THE COURT: So there was some sort of overt act, no
19 matter how subtle, to connect somebody with it?
20 MR. LONDON: That -- the continuing availability of
21 Assassination Politics on the Internet and his continuing
22 reference in emails to people to go look it up on the Internet
23 is certainly an overt act in furtherance of this kind of
24 stalking, I think, but we don't rely on that for our proof in
25 this case. We rely on much more immediate overt acts of his
534
1 showing up at people's homes and his running reams of database
2 searches and printouts for them.
3 THE COURT: Well, that's a direct overt act that you're
4 talking about.
5 MR. LONDON: Yes.
6 THE COURT: Can't there be subtle acts?
7 MR. LONDON: Yes.
8 THE COURT: That this jury can consider. They can
9 consider both direct -- for the purpose of the defendant's
10 arguments to dismiss, there's insufficient evidence on which a
11 reasonable juror could disagree, is that correct?
12 MR. LEEN: I say -- that's what we have said, Your
13 Honor, yes.
14 THE COURT: The defendant's motions to dismiss on
15 counts one, two, three, four, five will be dismissed.
16 Now where are we?
17 MR. LEEN: We're at the beginning of the defendant's
18 case, Your Honor.
19 THE COURT: All right. Does the defendant wish to
20 testify?
21 MR. LEEN: Yes.
22 THE COURT: Okay. How does he wish to testify? It's
23 my understanding that you might want to use demonstrative
24 evidence.
25 MR. LEEN: He's indicated he would like to --
535
1 THE COURT: Which means he will be off that witness
2 stand.
3 MR. LEEN: Yes, sir.
4 THE COURT: With a United States marshal right next to
5 him.
6 MR. LEEN: That's understood.
7 THE COURT: So how are we going to work it?
8 MR. LEEN: If he uses the blackboard somewhat near
9 where it actually is right now, the marshal could be seated in
10 the chair back there and be seated there.
11 THE COURT: Without -- without asking what he's going
12 to put on there --
13 MR. LEEN: Yes, sir.
14 THE COURT: What we're going to do, we're going to use
15 butcher paper on one of those easels.
16 MR. LEEN: All right.
17 THE COURT: And whatever he tends to put on, he's going
18 to put it on out of the presence of the jury. We will provide a
19 pointer.
20 MR. LEEN: Yes, sir.
21 THE COURT: Because I want him on the witness stand.
22 MR. LEEN: Is it possible that he could have a pad
23 to --
24 THE COURT: I just do not trust him because of his past
25 practices as to the security of everyone in this courtroom. I'm
536
1 not saying he can't do it. But I want the marshals there at
2 every instance, close by.
3 MR. LEEN: It's understood, Your Honor.
4 THE COURT: So if he has something he wants to put on
5 there, have him draw it up, without the presence of the jury,
6 have him put it on there, and then he can refer to it.
7 MR. LEEN: Okay. Just a suggestion, is it possible
8 that he could be brought back about 15 minutes before we start
9 so that he could, with the marshal there, have him put it on
10 there?
11 THE COURT: Just have him here at one o'clock.
12 MR. LEEN: The defendant would also --
13 THE COURT: Can he take the butcher pad to the lockup
14 room?
15 DEPUTY MARSHAL: Yes, Your Honor.
16 MR. LEEN: Would he be allowed to have access to both a
17 marker and a pen so that he could write some notes and also --
18 THE COURT: This is up to the marshals. They are in
19 charge of his security.
20 MR. LEEN: I think it requires authorization from the
21 court. Otherwise they will not allow him to have a writing
22 instrument.
23 THE COURT: What will the marshals permit?
24 DEPUTY MARSHAL: We can provide what he needs, both pen
25 and marker, Your Honor.
537
1 THE COURT: All right.
2 MR. LEEN: That would be fine.
3 Your Honor, the defendant indicates that he needs his notes
4 from SeaTac before he can testify.
5 THE COURT: What?
6 MR. LEEN: The defendant indicates that he has his
7 notes, which are in a counselor's office pursuant to a prior
8 court order, all notes that he took when he was doing discovery
9 would remain in the counselor's office. He doesn't have them
10 and he needs them.
11 THE COURT: And you're just now bringing that up?
12 MR. LEEN: I just now have been advised that that's
13 what the defendant wants.
14 THE COURT: When we reconvene at one o'clock, the court
15 is going to ask the defendant, is he prepared to proceed. And
16 the answer is going to be yes or no.
17 MR. LEEN: I understand.
18 THE COURT: Anything else?
19 MR. LEEN: Not from the defense, Your Honor.
20 MR. LONDON: No, Your Honor.
21 THE COURT: All right. They've got marking pens. Give
22 the paper to the marshals so they can inspect it, do whatever
23 they have to do.
24 All right, court's in recess. One o'clock.
25 (Recessed at 11:40)
538
1 AFTERNOON SESSION
2 (Jury not present; 1:09 p.m.)
3 THE COURT: Be seated, please.
4 Where are we? Jury?
5 MR. LONDON: Your Honor, before the defendant takes the
6 stand, I would like to advise the court that over the lunch hour
7 the court clerk and the case agent did a review of the exhibits
8 that were offered, and apparently I neglected to actually offer
9 four exhibits for which foundation is laid. I understand from
10 Mr. Leen that he's not objecting to my offering those at this
11 time.
12 MR. LEEN: That's correct, Your Honor.
13 MR. LONDON: We would offer Exhibits 130, 132, 134, and
14 135.
15 MR. LEEN: I have no objection. If the court wants to
16 do it outside the jury's presence, that's fine with me.
17 THE COURT: No. Do it in front of the jury.
18 MR. LONDON: All right, Your Honor.
19 THE COURT: Mr. Leen.
20 MR. LEEN: Yes, Your Honor.
21 THE COURT: Does the defendant intend to take the
22 stand?
23 MR. LEEN: He does, Your Honor.
24 THE COURT: You're going to question.
25 MR. LEEN: I am.
539
1 THE COURT: He's to stand to the right, right in front
2 of the marshal.
3 MR. LEEN: Yes, sir.
4 THE COURT: With the pointer.
5 MR. LEEN: Okay.
6 THE COURT: Why don't you turn it around a little so --
7 juror number six and one are going to have a problem.
8 Turn it more.
9 MR. LEEVER: I'm going to, Your Honor. I just turned
10 it so that you could see it.
11 THE COURT: Yeah. Okay. That's fine.
12 DEPUTY MARSHAL MOGAN: Is that okay?
13 THE COURT: Are you all right?
14 DEPUTY MARSHAL MOGAN: Yes, Your Honor.
15 THE COURT: All right.
16 Okay?
17 MR. LEEN: Yes, Your Honor.
18 THE COURT: Are you ready for the jury now?
19 MR. LEEN: Would you like the defendant to take the
20 stand first?
21 THE COURT: No.
22 Bring the jury.
23 MR. LEEN: Debby, what numbers do I use? Do I use --
24 THE CLERK: You start with A-1.
25 MR. LEEN: A-1.
540
1 THE CLERK: Right.
2 (Jury present; 1:10 p.m.)
3 THE COURT: The record should reflect all members of
4 the jury are present.
5 Government.
6 MR. LONDON: Yes, Your Honor. Before we proceed to the
7 next matter, I would like to move to reopen for the limited
8 purpose of offering four exhibits I neglected to offer into
9 evidence.
10 THE COURT: All right. What are they?
11 MR. LONDON: They would be 130, 132, 134, and 135.
12 MR. LEEN: I have no objection.
13 THE COURT: They are admitted.
14 (Exhibits Nos. 130, 132, 134, and 135 were admitted.)
15 THE COURT: Government rests?
16 MR. LONDON: Yes, the government rests.
17 THE COURT: Defendant, first witness.
18 MR. LEEN: Thank you, Your Honor.
19 We would call the defendant, James Bell.
20 THE COURT: Okay.
21 THE CLERK: Raise your right hand.
22 JAMES DALTON BELL, DEFENDANT, SWORN
23 THE CLERK: Please state your full name and spell your
24 last name.
25 THE WITNESS: My name is James Dalton Bell, spelled
541
1 B-e-l-l.
2 DIRECT EXAMINATION
3 BY MR. LEEN:
4 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Bell.
5 Would you please tell the jury how old you are?
6 A. Well, as of today, I'm exactly 43 years old.
7 Q. Mr. Bell, I would like to ask you to tell the jury a little
8 bit about your background. Where were you born?
9 A. I was born in Ohio, 1958. The city was Akron. Well,
10 actually, it was a suburb called Cuyahoga Falls. And my father
11 worked at, I believe it was, Goodyear, I think, or a rubber -- a
12 tire company. Needless to say, I don't remember very much about
13 that time. But I guess it was a nice place to live. I drove
14 back by there on the way back from one year in college and drove
15 by the place my parents lived before I was born.
16 Q. Mr. Bell, where did you go to high school?
17 A. Shawnee Mission North High School in Kansas. It's in the
18 northeastern portion of Kansas. Shawnee Mission is sort of like
19 a general term for a large number of little towns that have
20 eventually run together. So it's -- I guess it's sort of like
21 the Seattle area where all these little, these -- you know
22 Redmond and Bel- -- I'm not local, by the way. I'm from
23 Vancouver, so I don't know the local area. But the whole place
24 basically ran together years ago, and Shawnee Mission is the
25 general term for a rather large area in the southwest of Kansas.
542
1 Q. Where did you go to college, sir?
2 A. Massachusetts Institute of Technology. It's a fairly
3 well-known technical college in Cambridge, Massachusetts, which
4 is right across the Charles River from Boston. MIT has been
5 around for well over a hundred years, and it teaches science and
6 technology. Its motto is mens et manus; mens meaning science,
7 and manus meaning engineering. I went there in 1976 to get a
8 degree, and the degree I eventually received from there is
9 chemistry, but I've also taken, from MIT, in addition to all the
10 regular chemistry courses that were required, plus many more
11 that weren't required, I have taken courses in electronics,
12 material science, silicon for semiconductors, and so forth.
13 Physics, many courses in physics. Computer software, computer
14 hardware. Optics. Acoustics. Various other technical areas.
15 I pretty much took a lot of courses. Some people focus on a
16 particular area. I took courses in virtually every area that I
17 could spare the time for.
18 MIT was a great place. The reason it was such a great
19 place, frankly, is because when I got there, virtually everybody
20 there, in a sense, was like me. I could have an intelligent
21 conversation with virtually anybody there on virtually any
22 technical subject that I could think of. Everybody there had a
23 substantial amount to add because of the amount of reading they
24 did.
25 Q. After you graduated from MIT, where did you go?
543
1 A. Well, toward the end of my college career, of course, I --
2 there was a week where they had career day, and, of course, all
3 the company -- you know, companies had sent representatives and
4 agencies, and so forth, to interview various budding graduates,
5 and I, of course, went to the career day, and I wanted to find
6 out where I could find a job. So I went to the career day and
7 I, I interviewed with a number of people, a number of
8 companies.
9 I interviewed with General Electric, in fact, and talked to
10 them and explained my electronics background. My very extensive
11 electronics background. Building computer hardware, electronic
12 circuitry, things called op-amps and SCRs, triacs, transistors,
13 FETS, that kind of thing. And they were interested in me for
14 the electronics background, but they were also interested in me
15 primarily because I had the chemistry degree, and the
16 combination of being -- having an extreme amount of knowledge in
17 electronics and an extreme amount of knowledge in chemistry is
18 rather rare. People don't usually have multiple areas where
19 they have large degree experience.
20 In any case --
21 Q. Did you take a job with someone?
22 A. Yes, I did. One of the other organizations I interviewed
23 with was a company called Intel -- I'm sure you've heard of it.
24 They are a big company now, but at the time they were rather
25 small and they were primarily, of course, in Silicon Valley,
544
1 California, Santa Clara. They had a facility in Phoenix, I
2 think, but one of their facilities, or sets of facilities, was
3 in Beaverton, Oregon.
4 Well, I interviewed with them, and one of the interviewers,
5 after having heard what my background is in both chemistry and
6 electronics, because Intel does both chemistry and electronics
7 because they build chips, they were very interested to find out
8 that I knew all this material about chemistry and electronics.
9 So the guy asked me, "Well, if you were to work for Intel, where
10 would you want to work? We have three facilities," he said,
11 "Phoenix, California, and Beaverton, Oregon." And I said,
12 "Well, frankly, I would rather not go to California." And the
13 guy looked at me, and he laughed a bit, and he said, "Yeah, I
14 know what you mean." He says, "Well, how about Oregon?" I
15 said, "Yeah." I know a friend, I have an MIT friend who has
16 inadvertently lured me to Oregon by all the wonderful stories
17 I've heard about it. And I said, "Yeah, I would love to see
18 Oregon."
19 Well, he scheduled a trip where I visited -- I visited
20 Oregon, and I -- a few weeks later, so that -- before I had
21 made -- or actually, after I had made the trip, I believe, an
22 odd thing happened. Mount St. Helen's blew. And I sheepishly
23 called the guy back, he was back in Oregon at the time, and I
24 said, "Do I still have a job?" And he said, "Yeah, our place
25 missed most of the ash."
545
1 So, yeah, I worked for Intel. I went --
2 Q. How long did you work for Intel, sir?