23 June 2004
Source: Digital file from Southern District Reporters Office; (212) 805-0300.
Note: Transcripts were not provided between 1 June and 21 June, 2004.
This is the transcript of Day 11 of the trial.
See other transcripts: http://cryptome.org/usa-v-ssy-dt.htm
Lynne Stewart web site with case documents: http://www.lynnestewart.org/
2239 46NSSAT1 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK 2 ------------------------------x 3 3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, 4 4 v. S1 02 Cr. 395 (JGK) 5 5 AHMED ABDEL SATTAR, a/k/a "Abu Omar," 6 a/k/a "Dr. Ahmed," LYNNE STEWART, 6 and MOHAMMED YOUSRY, 7 7 Defendants. 8 8 ------------------------------x 9 9 10 New York, N.Y. 10 June 23, 2004 11 9:30 a.m. 11 12 Before: 12 13 HON. JOHN G. KOELTL 13 14 District Judge 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2240 46NSSAT1 1 APPEARANCES 1 2 DAVID N. KELLEY 2 United States Attorney for the 3 Southern District of New York 3 ROBIN BAKER 4 CHRISTOPHER MORVILLO 4 ANTHONY BARKOW 5 ANDREW DEMBER 5 Assistant United States Attorneys 6 6 KENNETH A. PAUL 7 BARRY M. FALLICK 7 Attorneys for Defendant Sattar 8 8 MICHAEL TIGAR 9 JILL R. SHELLOW-LAVINE 9 Attorneys for Defendant Stewart 10 10 DAVID STERN 11 DAVID A. RUHNKE 11 Attorneys for Defendant Yousry 12 12 13 14 15 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2242 46NSSAT1 1 (Page 2241 SEALED) 2 THE COURT: The other issues that I had as preliminary 3 issues are the envelope for the jurors is a clerk's office 4 envelope. That is the only envelopes they give us these days. 5 I don't have a problem with that. 6 I do want to talk about whether the government has any 7 views with respect to the jurors talking to their family and 8 friends about what case they are on and I want to talk briefly 9 about the redacted memos, but I don't see any reason to do 10 either of those at the side bar. 11 All right? 12 MR. MORVILLO: Very well. 13 (In open court; jury not present) 14 THE COURT: Please be seated all. We are waiting on 15 one juror who missed the first transportation. 16 We talked yesterday about whether the jurors should be 17 able to tell those who are close to them what case they are on. 18 Does the government have a view with respect to that? 19 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, the government shares the 20 defense concern that was addressed by Mr. Stern yesterday and 21 would have no objection to the court instructing the jury that 22 they can tell their immediate family members what they are 23 doing, but that they should be instructed that they should tell 24 their family members that they can't tell anybody what they are 25 doing. I recognize that it may be a little bit of a slippery SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2243 46NSSAT1 1 slope, but there are concerns that have been raised. 2 THE COURT: All right. 3 If I forget remind me. I will tell the jurors at 4 least by the end of the day that they can tell -- I have told 5 them that they can tell people that they are a juror in a case 6 but don't tell them anything else. And I will tell them that 7 they can tell those who are close to them what case it is and 8 that the judge has told them not to talk about the case and 9 that is it. And they are not violating my orders by doing that 10 and they are not compromising their anonimity. The purpose of 11 the instruction is to prevent them from having further 12 conversations that would get into a discussion of the case or 13 hearing things about the case from other people. So that is 14 what I will tell them. 15 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, may we request a slight 16 addition to that instruction? 17 THE COURT: Sure. 18 MR. TIGAR: It would be that to repeat that if anyone, 19 including a member of their family, does try to talk to them 20 about the case, they should report that. And I say that 21 because I know that government counsel were thinking of their 22 experience in past cases. People who know that other people 23 are jurors sometimes make silly, intemperate remarks, usually 24 intended as a joke. I can remember trying a case where jurors 25 would go to lunch with a juror badge and people, on their way SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2244 46NSSAT1 1 to the cafeteria, would say things. 2 So it would be good to have a policing mechanism just 3 to make sure that we know about any contacts of any kind with 4 jurors even if they turn out, as they usually do, to be 5 trivial. 6 THE COURT: All right. 7 The other subject that we discussed at the end of the 8 day yesterday was the issue of two redacted memos and I have 9 several comments on those memos. 10 First, the redactions -- and it may be a copying 11 issue -- contained some material that was blacked out in such a 12 way that I could not read, and it appeared to be material that 13 was classified, a very small amount, but I need to see it. And 14 it may have simply been copied with highlighter or the like. 15 The second point I would make on the redacted memos is 16 I obviously can't make a determination, and under the statute I 17 shouldn't make the determination, until a witness testifies on 18 direct. I don't know if the material relates to a subject 19 matter of the direct, but I do have a general observation. 20 There is a reasonable amount of redacted material in 21 those two memos which I have to consider after direct. I have 22 obviously read the material already and the redacted material 23 for the most part begins with an introduction, the gist of 24 which is -- paraphrasing -- here is a summary of the FISA 25 intercepts that I reviewed, and then there is a long redaction, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2245 46NSSAT1 1 and then at the end it says something like that is a summary of 2 what I reviewed. 3 One wonders -- assuming that that material doesn't 4 relate to the subject matter of the direct -- why I am being 5 asked to do this. The preference should be on not redacting 6 rather than redacting. If there is a memo, part of which is 7 going to be produced, there should be a question, well, why 8 don't we turn it over rather than redact it? Because to the 9 extent that there are redactions, I have to review them, make 10 the determination whether they are relevant to the subject 11 matter, and the FISA intercepts are plainly a matter that is 12 fully disclosed and may not be the subject of direct but, 13 again, I simply repeat that the preference should be not to 14 redact rather than to redact. 15 And the problem with redactions is that I have to make 16 the judgment after direct. It takes some time. I do it 17 carefully, and the problem is that when it takes me time to do 18 it after direct, there is always the possibility that it may 19 take so much time that a witness gets called back without a 20 real purpose. So I lay that out for you. And, of course, I 21 will decide. When this has come up sometimes in the past and I 22 have made similar talks, the reaction has been "here," but all 23 I do is follow the statute and follow the procedures that are 24 laid out. And you can think about that. 25 I have nothing further this morning. We are still SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2246 46NSSAT1 1 waiting on the one juror. 2 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, with respect to the order 3 and your instructions to the jury about to whom they may speak 4 on the issue of which case they are serving on, it was the 5 government's proposal that that be limited to family members. 6 I am not sure that the court agrees but from reading the 7 transcription here the way you described it was they can tell 8 people and that would be broader than the government would 9 request of your Honor. 10 THE COURT: What I would want to do is to tell them -- 11 my initial instruction told them that "anyone else" includes 12 members of your family and your friends. You may tell them you 13 are a juror in a case. And I can tell them you can tell your 14 family and friends or I can tell them those -- which I 15 sometimes say -- those who are close to you, which I think is 16 probably a better way of phrasing it. 17 MR. MORVILLO: The government agrees with that, your 18 Honor. 19 MR. BARKOW: May I confer with Mr. Fallick for a 20 moment because I wanted to bring something to the court's 21 attention but I wanted to ask him something first. 22 THE COURT: Oh, sure. 23 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, having conferred with Mr. 24 Fallick, I wanted, while we are waiting, to bring another issue 25 to the court's attention. This relates to the Sattar search SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2247 46NSSAT1 1 materials which the government intends to call a witness with 2 respect to these materials either late this week or early next 3 week and I have reached an agreement with Mr. Fallick. I don't 4 know the other defendants' positions on this but most of that 5 evidence, for the court's information, is offered solely 6 against Mr. Sattar, although there is some of it being offered 7 against multiple defendants. 8 But with respect to my agreement with Mr. Fallick, 9 what the government intends to do is lay the foundation for all 10 of the exhibits that the government wishes ultimately to offer, 11 and then offer into evidence those exhibits for which Mr. 12 Fallick has no objection, not offering before the jury 13 immediately those exhibits for which Mr. Fallick does have an 14 objection, and therefore with respect to Mr. Sattar at least 15 the court would not need to make evidentiary rulings 16 prepublication to the jury with respect to those exhibits we 17 offer. And then on a moving-forward basis Mr. Fallick and I 18 will continue to discuss those other exhibits for which the 19 government laid a foundation, see if we can work out any 20 differences, and narrow those differences and bring those 21 differences to the court's attention. 22 So I basically wanted to make the court aware that at 23 least with with respect to Mr. Sattar and Mr. Fallick's 24 position, that is the approach we intend to take. So the court 25 will not, with respect to us and Mr. Sattar at least, need to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2248 46NSSAT1 1 make evidentiary rulings as I offer them. But I don't know the 2 other defendants' positions at this moment right now. 3 MR. TIGAR: I have already been in conversation with 4 Mr. Barkow about some of those exhibits and particularly as to 5 some which are being offered "only as to Mr. Sattar" but which 6 nonetheless in our view are such that they would leap any 7 cautionary instruction or limiting instruction the court might 8 give, so if Mr. Barkow will talk to us about that we will be 9 happy to join along with any procedure. But I want to signal 10 for the court in the presence of government counsel that we do 11 think there are some exhibits there that ought not to be shown 12 to this jury until the court has looked at them. 13 MR. BARKOW: I should have actually said I did have a 14 preliminary discussion with Mr. Tigar, as well as with Mr. 15 Habib, and I don't know ultimately specifically what their 16 position is but we will also include them. We haven't even 17 started the dialogue yet with respect to Mr. Yousry. But I am 18 not sure. But we will get them involved as well. 19 THE COURT: Okay, thank you. 20 MR. MORVILLO: Can I change topics for a minute, your 21 Honor? 22 THE COURT: Sure. 23 MR. MORVILLO: During the direct examination of Mr. 24 Fitzgerald this morning, if it happens this morning, I intend 25 to ask him generally about his involvement in the underlying SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2249 46NSSAT1 1 trial with Sheikh Abdel Rahman and I thought that perhaps 2 during his examination that would be an appropriate time for 3 the court to take judicial notice of the facts to which the 4 parties have agreed. I can interrupt his testimony for that 5 fact, and we could do it after, we can do it before. 6 What is the court's preference with respect to that? 7 THE COURT: My preference is to do it after and the 8 reason that I say "do it after" is when I ruled on the issue of 9 the conviction I said -- and I thought I would hear from the 10 parties actually -- that I thought that there was an additional 11 instruction that was appropriate and I thought the parties 12 would take me up on it. 13 MR. MORVILLO: The additional instruction, if my 14 recollection is correct, is that these defendants were not 15 parties to that underlying criminal case and the government has 16 no objection to the court -- 17 THE COURT: It was a little more extensive than that 18 and I don't have it in front of me. 19 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, we don't have a copy of 20 your Honor's order but perhaps we can obtain a copy. 21 THE COURT: What I said was the court would also be 22 prepared to instruct the jury further that the fact of 23 conviction and the subsequent appellate review is not evidence 24 of the guilt of Sheikh Abdel Rahman and none of the defendants 25 is bound by those determinations because none of the defendants SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2250 46NSSAT1 1 was a party in that case. 2 MR. TIGAR: We would request the court give that 3 instruction at the time the court takes judicial notice in 4 accordance with the text that we had agreed upon. And I 5 apologize to the court that we didn't include that in our 6 agreement. 7 THE COURT: All right. Well, then, if you have a 8 draft of the judicial notice, I will take judicial notice and 9 give the limiting instruction and include also my addition to 10 the limiting instruction. 11 And do the parties have a preference as to when I 12 should do that? 13 MR. MORVILLO: The government has no objection to it 14 happening prior to Mr. Fitzgerald's testimony, during or after, 15 but we would like it to happen today, if we could. 16 MR. TIGAR: We have no objections to Mr. Morvillo's 17 proposal that it be done before the end of Mr. Fitzgerald's 18 testimony. 19 I would also ask the government to make Mr. Fitzgerald 20 aware that the court will be taking judicial notice, that the 21 court will be instructing the jury -- and I say this because 22 our negotiations about what was to be taken judicial notice of 23 were important to us and I wouldn't like Mr. Fitzgerald to 24 blurt out something or say something that leapt over the bounds 25 that we agreed upon. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2251 46NSSAT1 1 MR. MORVILLO: I have already gone over it with him, 2 your Honor. 3 THE COURT: Okay. Well, the defendants don't care 4 whether it's before, during or after, so the government should 5 tell me when they want it and give me a copy of the judicial 6 notice and I will simply add the additional instruction. 7 MR. MORVILLO: The government would prefer that your 8 Honor do it during Mr. Fitzgerald's direct examination. 9 THE COURT: All right. Just say at an appropriate 10 time we ask the court to take judicial notice. 11 MR. MORVILLO: I assume it's something you will just 12 instruct the jury. Is it also something you want as a separate 13 document that has your instruction that you are intending to 14 file? 15 THE COURT: No, I will just explain it to them. I 16 will read it to them and I can repeat it again in my final 17 instructions, which they will have. 18 MR. MORVILLO: At the break, your Honor, I have a copy 19 of our letter here which has the parties' agreement in it. I 20 will make a photocopy of it and hand it up to your Honor. 21 THE COURT: Okay, great. 22 MR. MORVILLO: Thank you. 23 THE COURT: I will go back to the robing room and 24 await notice that all of the jurors are here. 25 MR. RUHNKE: Before you do that, your Honor, great SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2252 46NSSAT1 1 timing, and I am sorry -- 2 THE COURT: Please be seated all. 3 MR. RUHNKE: It's a great feeling of power to have a 4 whole room stand up. 5 You had raised just as a housekeeping matter 6 yesterday, and I won't discuss it in detail, a commitment that 7 a juror has to keep and what our response would be. We have 8 talked about it and at an appropriate time we would like to 9 tell you what our response is. 10 THE COURT: I know what your response is going to be 11 and I will see where we are in terms of whether we sit for 12 about 2 hours on the morning of July 1st. 13 MR. RUHNKE: Thank you, your Honor. 14 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, I have an extra copy now of 15 that letter, so I will just hand it up. 16 THE COURT: All right. 17 Thank you, I appreciate it. 18 Okay, thank you, Mr. Morvillo. 19 I will see you shortly. 20 (Recess) 21 (Continued on next page) 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2253 46NMSAT2 1 (In open court; jury not present) 2 THE COURT: We have ordered lunch for 1:00 and the 3 audio/visual people tell me that they will attempt to set up a 4 monitor, a control monitor, on the defense table also and they 5 will try to do that later this afternoon. 6 MR. RUHNKE: Thank you, your Honor. 7 THE COURT: Bring in the jury. 8 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, after Mr. Paul's opening 9 statement would we be taking a break so we can retrieve our 10 first witness? 11 THE COURT: Yes. 12 MR. MORVILLO: As the Court may be aware, we don't 13 have a witness room here in the courthouse, and we are told 14 that we can't get one without the Court's permission. The last 15 trial that was in this courtroom they used a room back there. 16 Our understanding is that's off limits and that's fine. Just 17 so the Court is aware, we don't have a room right now. Our 18 witnesses are back in our office and we are going to make 19 arrangements to try to shuttle them over here as quickly as 20 possible, and we are hoping to get a room over here where we 21 can hold them. 22 THE COURT: Perhaps a room on another floor. If you 23 talk to Mr. Kirsch about another room either on the third floor 24 or someplace else. 25 MR. MORVILLO: The third floor would be fine with the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2254 46NMSAT2 1 government. Can we tell him we have your approval for that? 2 THE COURT: Yes. 3 MR. MORVILLO: Thank you. 4 Mr. Fitzgerald is ready to go. He is over there at 5 the U.S. Attorney's Office. If we take a break after 6 Mr. Paul's opening -- 7 THE COURT: I am sure we will take a break. 8 (Jury present) 9 THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It is 10 good to see you all. 11 When we left yesterday we were in the middle of 12 opening statements. As I've told you, opening statements are 13 the explanations by the lawyers about what they expect the 14 evidence in the case to be, what the evidence will show or not 15 show in the case. Opening statements are not evidence. They 16 are the statements by the lawyers to help you understand what 17 they expect the evidence to show or not to show. 18 The final opening statement will be given on behalf of 19 Mr. Sattar by Mr. Paul. 20 Mr. Paul. 21 MR. PAUL: Thank you, your Honor. 22 May it please the Court, good morning. 23 Several weeks ago when we began the long process of 24 jury selection Judge Koeltl introduced the parties to you with 25 regard to this case. However, since it was so long ago and by SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2255 46NMSAT2 Opening - Mr. Paul 1 now it probably seems longer ago, let me once again introduce 2 myself, my cocounsel and my client to you. My name is Kenneth 3 Paul. My cocounsel is Barry Fallick. Seated next to him is 4 our sign the Ahmed Abdel Sattar. 5 I always look forward to speaking directly to a jury 6 because we only get two opportunities to do that in the course 7 of a trial. Usually, we are standing at the podium and we are 8 questioning witnesses, and this is one of our only chances to 9 directly look at you, talk to you, and explain to you at least 10 in an opening what we believe the evidence is that will be 11 presented, how the evidence will be presented, and what it will 12 show in the course of this trial. 13 At the end of the trial, again, I will have the 14 pleasure of talking with you so that together we can review the 15 evidence and evaluate what was presented as it unfolded before 16 us during this trial. And it will be a long trial. And we 17 will determine and we will discuss together how I believe you 18 should apply the facts because you are the finders of the fact 19 to the law as instructed to you by Judge Koeltl. 20 You've been already given an overview by the Court of 21 what the charges consist of and you have now heard that the 22 government -- you have now heard from the government as to what 23 they believe the evidence will show. I differ with the 24 government because I believe that after you have heard all the 25 evidence -- and I emphasize the word all -- you will conclude SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2256 46NMSAT2 Opening - Mr. Paul 1 that the government has failed to satisfy their burden of 2 proof, which is to prove each element of each charge beyond a 3 reasonable doubt. 4 So what is this case about and what will the evidence 5 show? It is really a case about words. My client, Ahmed Abdel 6 Sattar, has been charged with very serious crimes based on 7 words that were spoken by him and others. Your job will be a 8 very difficult one because you will have to determine what was 9 my client's intent when he spoke those words. The government's 10 evidence will consist primarily of conversations between my 11 client and others, and it is from those conversations the 12 government will argue their case. 13 The reason we are here today, what brings us to this 14 very courtroom, is that my client has already spoken. He has 15 told this court he is not guilty of these crimes. And I submit 16 to you that after you have heard and had a chance to evaluate 17 the evidence or lack of evidence, you, too, will reach that 18 conclusion. 19 Though we all spent a very long time selecting you, 20 and you have each assured us that you will be fair and 21 impartial, as I stand here today I am very nervous; not just 22 because this is an important trial with much at stake for my 23 client, because it is that; but also because I recognize that 24 even though you have been told and will be told again by Judge 25 Koeltl that the government has the burden of proof throughout SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2257 46NMSAT2 Opening - Mr. Paul 1 this trial. The burden of proof remains at this table, the 2 government's table. It never moves over to this table. There 3 is no burden of proof by any defendant to have to prove 4 anything to you. And this is because my client, Mr. Sattar, as 5 he sitting here right now, is presumed innocent, and that 6 presumption of innocence remains with him as we sit here today, 7 as we sit here through the many months we will sit and listen 8 to evidence, as we sit here and listen to the summations, as we 9 sit here and listen to Judge Koeltl's instructions at the end 10 of the case. He is protected by that presumption of innocence 11 and it remains with him throughout, even at the time that you 12 get up to go into that jury room to begin your deliberations. 13 And it is only until and unless you are all satisfied that the 14 government has in fact established beyond a reasonable doubt 15 each element of each charge with regard to Mr. Sattar, and 16 then, and only then, is that presumption perhaps shattered. 17 And that is the law. And though that is the law, my 18 nervousness and fear stems from the reality of today's world, 19 which does not lend itself to people being very objective or 20 fair once they hear some of the words and names, you are going 21 to hear at this trial. Some of these you have already heard in 22 the government's opening remarks yesterday morning. Some of 23 them were even mentioned by Mr. Tigar in his opening remarks. 24 Quite simply, the mere mention of certain words or names 25 understandably make -- cause you to feel such anger or SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2258 46NMSAT2 Opening - Mr. Paul 1 discomfort that you may even flinch when you hear some of these 2 words and names. And you are going to have to fight against 3 those reactions if you are to truly fulfill your oath as a 4 juror and evaluate the evidence in an impartial, fair, and 5 objective way. 6 Words, places and names you will hear in no particular 7 order throughout this trial, words such as Jihad, Muslim, 8 terrorist or terrorism, the Islamic Group, fatwah, Sheikh, Abu 9 Sayyaf, the U.S.S. Cole, Luxor terrorist attack, World Trade 10 Center, Osama Bin Laden. Given the daily events of terrorism 11 around the world, which is all we read and hear about in the 12 papers and on TV, certainly since 9/11, you must not allow the 13 mere mention of these words and names to impair your ability to 14 be fair and impartial. We live in fear that something dreadful 15 might happen again to us here in the United States. This is 16 only normal. 17 However, as normal as that may be, you cannot allow 18 that fear to cloud your ability to objectively evaluate this 19 case. And as difficult as that may be, as we all sit in here 20 inside this courtroom that once was the very shadow of the 21 World Trade Center, you have been chosen to serve on this jury 22 because each of you, each and every one of you have assured us 23 that you will abide by the oath you took and be able to do just 24 that. We become a nation confronting an enemy that's 25 everywhere and nowhere. Our vulnerability has caused us all to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2259 46NMSAT2 Opening - Mr. Paul 1 change, and we recognize that. 2 And, consequently, our government has been going after 3 those it sees as its enemy. Rest assured, ladies and 4 gentlemen, this man, Ahmed Abdel Sattar, is no enemy of the 5 United States. He is certainly not a terrorist. Nothing could 6 be further from the truth. 7 As you've already heard from the government, the 8 evidence in this case will include interceptions made by the 9 government of all of my client's telephone conversations, 10 e-mails and faxes for how long? Seven years. Seven years. 11 This resulted in approximately 90,000 interceptions of my 12 client. From these 90,000 interceptions you are going to hear 13 just a few, or at least a relatively small number from which 14 the government alleges has formed the charges in this case 15 against my client. It is for the most part based upon these 16 conversations that the government has charged Ahmed Abdel 17 Sattar with the following offenses: Conspiracy to defraud the 18 United States, conspiracy to kill and kidnap persons in a 19 foreign country, solicitation of crimes of violence. The 20 reason these charges sound so serious is because they are. 21 But when I tell you that this is a case about words 22 and nothing more, that is because as serious and violent as 23 these crimes sound, rest assured, there will not be any 24 evidence and not even one allegation by the government that 25 anything, that anything ever happened to anyone as a direct SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2260 46NMSAT2 Opening - Mr. Paul 1 result of anything my client ever said or did. 2 Having said that, however, let me caution you, ladies 3 and gentlemen, that you are indeed going to hear evidence of 4 violence during this trial. And you got a bit of that from the 5 government's opening yesterday. There will be evidence of 6 violence regarding hostages who were held by a rebel group in 7 the Philippines. This group calls itself Abu Sayyaf. And in 8 or about March of 2000, it issued a long list of demands. 9 There were many demands. And these demands were issued on the 10 Philippine government in return for the release of the hostages 11 they were holding. And included on this very long list of 12 demands for the release of these hostages was a demand for 13 Sheikh Rahman to be released from prison here in the United 14 States. That is the connection of that incident to this case. 15 You will also hear evidence of violence concerning the 16 killing and wounding of many tourists at an archeological site 17 in Luxor, Egypt on November 17, 1997. In determining the 18 connection and importance of that incident to this case, keep 19 in mind that this act of brutal violence -- and it was an act 20 of brutal violence -- took place four months after there had 21 been a call for peace by the Islamic Group with the Egyptian 22 government. And this so-called peace initiative was supported 23 by Sheikh Rahman. If this is alleged to have in fact been done 24 by the Islamic Group, then I submit to you it was clearly done 25 by some splintered group operating on its own without authority SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2261 46NMSAT2 Opening - Mr. Paul 1 from anyone. 2 The government will also present evidence of violence 3 concerning the bombing of the United States naval vessel, the 4 U.S.S. Cole. This took place in Yemen on October 12, 2000 and 5 resulted in the death of many U.S. crew members, as well as the 6 wounding of several U.S. crew members. 7 What is the connection of this bombing to this case, 8 you may ask? Let me tell you. The only connection the U.S.S. 9 Cole has to this case is a phone call that Sattar received on 10 October 25, 2000 from an individual you have already heard 11 about and you will be hearing about during this trial, Rifa'i 12 Ahmad Taha Musa, or simply Taha. In this conversation Taha 13 told Sattar that he had reported -- had heard it reported that 14 one of the people responsible for the bombing involving the 15 U.S.S. Cole was an Egyptian male. What Taha wanted to know was 16 if this information could be utilized in any way for purposes 17 of negotiating with the U.S. Government in gaining better 18 prison conditions for Sheikh Rahman. 19 Taha apparently believed that if it could be suggested 20 that this incident somehow occurred as a reaction to the severe 21 prison conditions of the Sheikh, then perhaps the U.S. 22 Government would indeed reevaluate the Sheikh's severe prison 23 restrictions. Sattar told Taha that he had absolutely no way 24 of knowing whether this information could be utilized in any 25 way. But what he tells Taha is, he says, listen, I will pass SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2262 46NMSAT2 Opening - Mr. Paul 1 this along to one of the lawyers representing the Sheikh; 2 specifically, Ramsey Clark. I'll pass it along to Mr. Clark 3 and let him decide whether this can be utilized in any way in 4 negotiating with the government concerning Sheikh Rahman's 5 prison conditions. 6 As it turns out, Sattar never does pass this 7 information along to Ramsey Clark. In fact, the evidence will 8 show that nothing thereafter regarding the U.S.S. Cole was ever 9 discussed or happens until nine months later, on July 13, 2001, 10 when the conversation that Sattar had had with Taha is conveyed 11 to the Sheikh during a prison visit. That, ladies and 12 gentlemen, is the entire extent of any connection of the U.S.S. 13 Cole to this case. It is nothing but talk. 14 In fact, the government will admit and the Court will 15 so instruct you at the appropriate time that with respect to 16 the Abu Sayyaf kidnapping of hostages, with respect to the 17 Luxor killings, with respect to the U.S.S. Cole bombing, there 18 is no allegation that my client had anything to do with or 19 participated in any way in any of these events. Once again, 20 let me make this perfectly clear. The evidence will show that 21 in fact there are no victims who the government will refer to 22 and say, ladies and gentlemen, these people are the victims 23 caused by what Mr. Sattar said or did. That's not going to 24 happen. The government does not claim that Ahmed Abdel Sattar 25 or anyone else on his behalf ever caused harm to anyone, or SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2263 46NMSAT2 Opening - Mr. Paul 1 that any of his conversations or actions resulted in injury to 2 anyone. 3 What it comes down to is that my client is charged 4 with intending or agreeing with others through his 5 communications that violence should occur. In fact, ladies and 6 gentlemen, the evidence will show that Mr. Sattar never had any 7 such intent. So what you as the jurors will have to decide, 8 after you have listened to all of the evidence in this case, 9 is, what was Ahmed Abdel Sattar's actual intent or state of 10 mind during these many conversations? How do you determine 11 what's intent based upon conversations or words that were used? 12 I submit to you, ladies and gentlemen, that in order 13 for you to be able to make a factual determination of the true 14 intent of my client when you listen to any communications he 15 may have had, you will have to ask yourself and evaluate two 16 important things. First, you will have to place these 17 intercepted communications in context. This means you will 18 have to evaluate the circumstances surrounding the 19 conversations at the time they were made. And, second, you 20 will have to evaluate and understand the person himself, his 21 background, his political and religious beliefs, who is this 22 person, Ahmed Abdel Sattar? What is he about? During this 23 trial we will attempt to show you both, who Ahmed Abdel Sattar 24 really is and in what context these intercepted conversations 25 were made. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2264 46NMSAT2 Opening - Mr. Paul 1 Let's start with what the evidence will show about my 2 client. Unless you know who he is, where he comes from, what 3 makes him tick, you really cannot evaluate or begin to 4 understand his true intentions based only on his reported 5 words. 6 He was barn in Cairo, Egypt in 1959, where several of 7 his immediate family still reside. In 1979 to 1981, he served 8 in the Egyptian army, which is the only time, I might add, he 9 ever possessed a weapon. He lived in Egypt until he came to 10 New York on a tourist visa and settled in Brooklyn in 1982. He 11 thereafter met and married his wife Lisa, an American citizen 12 who was born and raised in this country. She grew up in a 13 catholic home. And in 1993, she converted to the Muslim faith. 14 He and his wife have four children together and they currently 15 live in Staten Island. In 1985, he received his U.S. residence 16 card and in 1989 he became a United States citizen. 17 In 1988, Mr. Sattar began working at the U.S. Post 18 Office where he worked right up until the day he was arrested 19 in April 2002, which, I might add, is the only time he has ever 20 been arrested in his life. 21 Contrary to the government's argument and the serious 22 charges brought against Sattar, he is not a man of violence, 23 and everything he ever did was done in the open. His life was 24 an open book for you to see, for me to see, for them to see. 25 You will see from that and hear from his many interviews he had SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2265 46NMSAT2 Opening - Mr. Paul 1 with the press that what Sattar knew from living in this 2 country for many years was that if you wanted to make your 3 case, which for him was to make people aware of the horrific 4 conditions suffered every day in Egypt, as well as the American 5 government's terrible policies toward the Middle East, then you 6 had to do what I referred to as work the press. This means he 7 had to continue to be available to the press and make his 8 position known. He did this time and time again. 9 You will learn from his many interviews with the press 10 that Sattar's position regarding violence and terrorism is very 11 clear. He personally condemns terrorist acts of violence. In 12 fact, he condemns all killing, doesn't matter where it happens. 13 He believes that killing innocent people is not a solution for 14 anything. Does he sympathize, however, with those who 15 represent armed opposition? Yes. But only if it is in 16 self-defense to those who oppress the helpless, such as the 17 Egyptian government with its own people, and then only if 18 negotiations fail. 19 Is he saddened that America is no longer viewed in the 20 eyes of the Islamic world as it once was, namely, the oasis for 21 democracy and hope? Yes. Is he opposed to the American 22 government's policies when it comes to support for Egypt, 23 Israel and the Middle East? Yes. Do his politics and his 24 opposition to America's policies toward Egypt, Israel, and the 25 Middle East cause him to want any harm to come to this country? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2266 46NMSAT2 Opening - Mr. Paul 1 No. Never. 2 You have already heard a great deal about Sheikh Omar 3 Abdel Rahman, and much of the evidence in this case will have 4 to do with the Sheikh. In fact, as I recall, Mr. Morvillo in 5 his opening, the very first thing he did yesterday, put the 6 picture of the Sheikh right up on that screen. Therefore, to 7 fully understand my client it is also important for you to have 8 some understanding of how and why was my client drawn to Sheikh 9 Omar Abdel Rahman. What was it about the Sheikh that attracted 10 Sattar to him? The evidence will show that Sheikh Rahman, like 11 Sattar, is Egyptian. He was considered by many Egyptians to be 12 very brave simply because he did not fear speaking out against 13 the cruel treatment of millions of Egyptians by the Egyptian 14 government. 15 (Continued on next page) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2267 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 He didn't just express his opposition to the 2 government of Egypt in general terms by talking of the terrible 3 poverty and living conditions of millions of Egyptian citizens. 4 But he spoke out against the corruption of the government 5 itself and lectured on how Muslims should revolt against the 6 oppressor. To the sheikh that meant Nasser, Sadat or Mubarak. 7 And for the reason being they failed their own people. 8 Sheikh Rahman was a clerk, an Imam, or leader of 9 prayer, and an Islamic religious scholar. Sattar, a very 10 religious man himself, related to the sheikh's criticism of the 11 Egyptian government. He too views it as a government which 12 refuses basic rights for individuals who simply may oppose or 13 speak out against the inequalities that the government 14 encourages. Those who dare to speak out are rewarded in most 15 cases with imprisonment without any trial or opportunity to 16 defend oneself. And then ultimately the worse imaginable 17 prison conditions and torture. 18 And that, ladies and gentlemen, is for those who are 19 fortunate enough not to simply be killed or disappear without a 20 trace never to be heard from again. 21 Sattar was living in the United States for many years 22 before the sheikh came here on a tourist visa in 1990. And 23 since Sattar was born and lived in Egypt until he was 23 years 24 old, it is not surprising that he had not only heard of the 25 sheikh but admired him from afar. Sattar's own politics stem SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2268 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 from growing up in Egypt under one dictatorship after another 2 and seeing firsthand how the people have no hope for a better 3 life. 4 Here in the United States he was politically 5 frustrated that the U.S. government would think only of Egypt 6 as an ally and friend since it is seen as a more moderate 7 Arabic country than some of its neighbors. To Sattar, however, 8 it is a country he loves but has always been governed by an 9 oppressive government. Everything about Sattar's politics -- 10 everything -- is directed at wanting to see change in Egypt. 11 And it was for this reason he looked to the sheikh as a symbol 12 and a spokesman for that very possibility. If any of his 13 politics is directed towards the United States, it is only as 14 it pertains to the United States foreign policy towards the 15 Middle East. He is a U.S. citizen who loves this country -- 16 his country -- deeply. The fact that he may disagree with its 17 policies does not lessen his love for it. 18 So it was this admiration for the sheikh's politics 19 toward Egypt, coupled with Sattar's own Islamic activism, that 20 caused him to attend the sermons given by the sheikh at 21 different mosques here in New York City and New Jersey. When 22 the sheikh was arrested in 1993 and faced various charges in 23 this court, Sattar was approved by the court to work as a 24 paralegal, along with other paralegals, to assist several 25 lawyers who represented the sheikh. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2269 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 One of the lawyers he met and worked with during this 2 time period was his co-defendant in this case, Lynne Stewart. 3 Another lawyer he worked with in assisting the sheikh was 4 Ramsey Clark who, as you heard several times, was the U.S. 5 Attorney general during the Lyndon Johnson administration. 6 Sattar also met at this time his other co-defendant, 7 Mohammed Yousry, a translator who also worked on the sheikh's 8 case. Both Sattar's closeness and belief in some, but 9 certainly not all -- and I emphasize "not all" -- of the 10 sheikh's opinions continued even after the sheikh was convicted 11 and sentenced to life imprisonment. To this day Sattar firmly 12 believes that the sheikh was unjustly convicted for the crimes 13 he was charged with. 14 As early as 1997, when the sheikh had already been 15 placed in solitary confinement in a special housing unit in 16 prison, he expressed his wishes to those who were working on 17 his case. What he wanted was a committee to be formed to 18 monitor his case, letters to be sent to both politicians and 19 newspapers, and for press releases issued to the media. 20 Whatever role Sattar found himself in after the sheikh was 21 tried and convicted was not one that he sought. It was thrust 22 upon him simply due to both his closeness to the sheikh as a 23 paralegal on his case and working on his case, and a believer 24 in the sheikh's courage against Egypt. 25 He attempted to satisfy the sheikh's wishes. He SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2270 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 helped form a committee to monitor the sheikh's case and gather 2 support for the sheikh even after he was convicted. This had 3 several purposes. One was to lobby and pressure prison 4 officials for better conditions of confinement for the sheikh. 5 This was necessary since the sheikh had been placed under the 6 most restrictive and severe conditions imaginable. He had been 7 segregated from other inmates and placed in solitary 8 confinement and was eventually cutoff completely from the 9 outside world and any contact with all visitors except his 10 lawyers. 11 Another purpose for the committee was simply to 12 attempt to keep the sheikh's name out there in the public 13 arena, both in the press as well as the Islamic world. It was 14 important to Sattar that the sheikh not be forgotten simply 15 because he was in prison. He felt it was his duty and 16 obligation that the sheikh's voice continued to be heard 17 throughout the Islamic community. This was important because 18 it was Sattar's belief that the sheikh was one of the few 19 remaining Arab leaders whose voice should not be silenced. 20 All of this required Sattar to play what I describe as 21 rough politics. He did this by becoming a demonstrator, a 22 communicator, and press secretary, all on behalf of the sheikh. 23 Clearly, ladies and gentlemen, Sattar was not, never 24 was, was never looked at or viewed as a policy maker. He was 25 never a decision-maker, or even, I might add, ever a member of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2271 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 this group you have heard about referred to as the Islamic 2 Group. 3 However, having been placed in this role he found 4 himself communicating with individuals he had never 5 communicated with before or for that matter to this date ever 6 met. And from those communications the government has brought 7 these charges. Of course, being Egyptian and a political 8 activist Sattar was very familiar with the Islamic Group and 9 its movement for change within Egypt. He also knew that the 10 sheikh was one of the religious and spiritual leaders for the 11 Islamic Group. 12 So what is the Islamic Group? The Islamic Group was 13 one of many such groups within Egypt that had fought for many 14 years for change. Since its inception in the late 1970s until 15 the present, all of its activities and actions were exclusively 16 focused on and targeted toward the Egyptian regime. But by the 17 time the sheikh was incarcerated the Islamic Group was a 18 movement whose leadership was scattered over three different 19 continents in and out of prisons. It was an organization that 20 by 1997 was splintered and confused. 21 These factions and contradictions arose within the 22 various members in a power struggle over questions of the peace 23 initiative, whether or not they should attempt to become a 24 political party, and how the Islamic Group should communicate 25 and negotiate, if indeed at all, with the Mubarak government. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2272 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 Due to Sattar's initial role as a paralegal for the 2 sheikh he communicated with many different individuals who 3 represented these varying factions. He became a messenger for 4 the sheikh. These individuals reached out to him, not the 5 other way around. Because they knew he was in contact with the 6 sheikh and the sheikh's lawyers. It was through these many 7 communications that he also came to speak with one of the more 8 militant individuals connected with the Islamic Group, this man 9 Taha. Like the others who reached out to Sattar, Taha was an 10 individual he had never previously spoken with or met. 11 Certainly not a friend as described yesterday by the 12 government. 13 Let me take this moment once again to caution you. As 14 I indicated earlier, your true challenge, I think, in this case 15 is not to allow your emotions to get in the way of your being 16 objective and impartial. I say this now because in fact, as 17 you heard yesterday, you will hear about a statement issued by 18 Osama Bin Laden and signed by Taha and others in 1998 calling 19 for Muslims to kill Americans. It was a statement, I might 20 add, which the leaders of the Islamic Group both denounced and 21 criticized Taha for having supported. They felt it distracted 22 from their true enemy, the Egyptian government, and only caused 23 more problems for openly opposing America. 24 You will also see a videotape that was broadcast in 25 September of 2000. In this tape Taha is seen along with Osama SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2273 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 Bin Laden and others where they, like others before and others 2 after them, called for the release of Sheikh Rahman. Again, I 3 implore you not to let the mere mention or even in this case 4 viewing of Osama Bin Laden prejudice your ability to 5 objectively evaluate the evidence as it pertains to Sattar. 6 That Sattar had contact with many different individuals, 7 including Taha, who was more extreme than others, says nothing 8 about his own beliefs and certainly nothing about his intent. 9 Don't allow yourself to apply guilt against Sattar simply by 10 those he associated and spoke with. In other words, avoid the 11 trap of guilt by association, because it's such an easy and 12 unfair trap to fall into. 13 I told you some of what you will learn about the 14 person of Ahmed Abdel Sattar, as well as how he came to be 15 communicating with others, in order to assist you in 16 determining the intent behind these words that you are going to 17 hear, but, as I said, you will also have an opportunity through 18 the evidence in this case to evaluate and form an understanding 19 of his intent by putting his conversations in context of what 20 was happening at the time they took place. 21 As with any conversation, you cannot just look at the 22 literal meaning of the spoken words to determine one's true 23 intent. You have to look behind and beyond the words 24 themselves. This is true of the communications my client had 25 involving the fatwah, the peace initiative, and the efforts to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2274 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 assist an individual in Egypt, which we also heard about 2 yesterday -- Atia. 3 Let's start with the fatwah. 4 To simply look at the words alone, there is absolutely 5 no way to describe them except to say they are hateful and they 6 are ugly. I don't believe anyone would disagree with that. 7 But in what context were they used? When were they used? Why 8 was this statement issued in the name of the sheikh? What was 9 Sattar's true intent, meaning, and purpose in assisting Taha in 10 writing this fatwah or statement? Was it something done and 11 expressed in the heat of the moment? 12 The evidence will show that this statement was issued 13 in early October 2000. It was not issued in a vacuum of world 14 events. Since many of you may not recall the news events being 15 reported during this time of what was happening in Israel, let 16 me remind you. 17 On September 28, 2000, Ariel Sharon, who at that time 18 was the hardline head of Israel's parliamentary opposition, 19 made an extraordinary visit to Jerusalem's holiest site, the 20 compound around al-Aqsa Mosque. This was considered by many in 21 the Muslim world to be nothing more than a provocation. It was 22 clearly done to provoke and instigate a reaction on the part of 23 the Palestinians, and it achieved its goal. There were, in 24 fact, demonstrations. 25 It was also during this time on October 2, 2000, that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2275 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 a French cameraman captured shocking footage which was 2 continually broadcast over the TV day in and day out. I am 3 sure many of you may actually remember those vivid images very 4 well. It was footage of a 12-year-old Palestinian boy being 5 protected by his father who was hovering over him against a 6 wall, pleading with those who were shooting, and in this case 7 it was the Israeli soldiers shooting at the Palestinians who 8 were demonstrating, and he was against this wall hovered over, 9 pleading, putting his hands up telling them to stop. And the 10 footage went on and it showed not only the shooting of the 11 father but the killing of that 12-year-old boy. 12 It was during this time period, and in this context, 13 that conversations were intercepted between Taha and Sattar. 14 In these conversations you will hear how Sattar expressed 15 sadness over what had happened in Israel. He was also upset 16 that even though the Palestinian people and Islamic community 17 around the world were demonstrating against what was happening, 18 there were no so-called Arab leaders speaking out and 19 expressing their own outrage over these incidents. 20 You will learn that Sattar is a firm believer that 21 when atrocities are committed against his people, the great 22 leaders should stand and speak out, stand strong and speak out 23 against such actions. You will also hear how he felt that the 24 Arab world community was abandoned by their leaders during this 25 time. It was clear to Sattar that it was his duty to have the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2276 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 sheikh respond to what was happening in Israel, whether in jail 2 and isolated from the world or not. 3 So when Taha called Sattar and tells him that he wants 4 to write a statement in the name of the sheikh to respond to 5 the news and he asks Sattar if he would edit it and assist him, 6 Sattar agrees. Taha then writes this statement, or fatwah, in 7 the name of the sheikh and sends it to Sattar to review, which 8 Sattar does. He changes the title of this statement to make it 9 clear that it is directed at the Israelis, and then he sends it 10 out for it to be issued on a Web site. 11 To Sattar this statement simply represented a way to 12 get the people talking and wake the Arab leaders up to at least 13 speak out regarding what was happening to the Palestinian 14 people. He never, ever, considered this statement to be either 15 a solicitation of violence or a terrorist statement. To him it 16 was only a statement to defend those who were being trampled on 17 by Israel. It was an attempt to show those who were being 18 oppressed that there were leaders still out there, such as 19 Sheikh Rahman, who had not forgotten them. 20 Were the words terrible? Absolutely. But what was 21 Sattar's true purpose and intent in agreeing to assist in the 22 writing of this statement? It was done to have the sheikh's 23 voice heard during a major world event. It was also Sattar's 24 own reaction in the heat of the moment to the silence of other 25 Arab leaders for not speaking out on behalf of those who have SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2277 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 no voice of their own. 2 It clearly was never his intent for anyone to be 3 killed. It is also clear that it was received in the Islamic 4 community the way it was intended. It provided the sheikh's 5 voice to the debate against Israel's policy toward the 6 Palestinians and people in fact demonstrated and spoke out. It 7 was not issued for any other purpose than this and it certainly 8 was not issued by Sattar with the intent on his part to either 9 conspire to kill or to solicit violence. 10 Let me talk about what the evidence will show 11 concerning the peace initiative. 12 What was the peace initiative? The initiative was 13 pronounced by the Islamic Group on July 5, 1997. It was the 14 Islamic Group's attempt to negotiate in peace with the Egyptian 15 government. It was an attempt to gain something in return for 16 taking the position that the Islamic Group would negotiate in 17 good faith and through peaceful means. What they wanted to 18 achieve was a positive response from the Egyptian government. 19 They had hoped that in return for this peace 20 initiative the Egyptian government would release prisoners who 21 were being held without ever having been afforded due process 22 or, at a minimum, they wanted better treatment for those who 23 were being held in the dungeons of the Egyptian prisons. Years 24 went by with the initiative in place and nothing really 25 significant ever happening by way of a response from the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2278 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 Egyptian government. In fact, in late 1999, four members of 2 the Islamic Group were murdered by the Egyptian government and 3 it appeared, to some at least, that the peace initiative was 4 not working and in its existing form. 5 What developed thereafter were different positions 6 from many individuals. Ultimately this resulted in at least 7 two different factions that differed on how to best negotiate 8 with the Egyptian government. One faction was located from 9 within Egypt and it had contact with the prisoners themselves. 10 They wanted to continue to negotiate the way they had been for 11 years. This faction realized that even though there had been 12 very little progress and change on the part of the Egyptian 13 government, certainly toward the prisoners, certainly in 14 releasing them, giving them better conditions, however, they 15 were fearful that the government would retaliate against the 16 prisoners if there was a breakdown in negotiations. 17 The other faction located outside of Egypt felt the 18 Islamic Group should take more of a hardline position. In 19 other words, they believed that unless the Egyptian authorities 20 began to do something to show their good faith, such as the 21 release of prisoners, better prison conditions, or at least due 22 process for new prisoners, then why should they continue to 23 take a peaceful approach? 24 This other faction believed in negotiating with the 25 Egyptian government from a position of strength. Like in any SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2279 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 negotiations between two parties, it was their belief that even 2 if they were incapable or had the ability to do this they 3 should at least let the Egyptian government believe that they 4 might very well. 5 In other words, the Egyptian government need not know 6 that they had not the ability or capability. And those who 7 felt this way, like Taha, believed that the government would 8 never do anything unless there was this concern or fear on 9 their part. And though this group also accepted the initiative 10 in principle, they refused to offer it free of charge to the 11 Egyptian government. In other words, they refused to endorse 12 the initiative unconditionally and without benefits in return 13 for the Islamic Group and others. They felt the initiative had 14 hurt, not helped, the Islamic Group and that the Islamic Group, 15 as well as the prisoners, would have been better off if the 16 initiative was implemented in stages. 17 They believed that unless they negotiated from a 18 position of at least potential strength the Egyptian government 19 would never respond. Why should it? They had nothing to fear 20 and it wasn't exactly in the government's interest to release 21 those who they believed were working against its very 22 existence. This is what Sattar was facing when he talked with 23 Taha and others about the initiative. 24 You will hear from Sattar's conversations with the 25 sheikh's son, and others, that he was simply pushed into this SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2280 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 role and placed in the middle of these different factions. He 2 did, however, feel very strongly that all viewpoints should be 3 heard and presented to the sheikh. What Taha wanted was simply 4 not to be shut out by those who felt differently. He also 5 wanted support from the sheikh so that he would not be ignored. 6 Sattar simply felt that Taha's position should at least be 7 heard because he too felt the peace initiative was not working. 8 Sattar believed that based on history at least the 9 Egyptian government would only negotiate out of fear of 10 possible military actions. 11 That doesn't mean, ladies and gentlemen, that he 12 believed or had any such intentions that military or violent 13 acts should actually be carried out or that the Islamic Group 14 should return to the days of violence. It simply meant that 15 the Islamic Group should negotiate by putting more pressure on 16 the Egyptian government and renegotiate from a position of 17 strength, even if in reality the Islamic Group had absolutely 18 none. 19 Sattar was asked to find out what the sheikh's 20 position was on this matter and at least support the idea that 21 Taha's position be considered -- nothing more, nothing less. 22 And that is all Sattar attempted to do by communicating with 23 the sheikh about the initiative. 24 That brings me to another subject of this indictment 25 which you will be asked to consider as well, as mentioned by SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2281 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 Mr. Morvillo yesterday. This has to do with an individual 2 named Atia. There are several conversations between Sattar and 3 individuals in Egypt regarding this man Atia that take place 4 over several months. This isn't just one or two conversations 5 contained within a few weeks. Sattar found himself connecting 6 Taha and others with those inside of Egypt who were allies of 7 Atia and were trying to help him get out of the country and 8 away from the Egyptian authorities. 9 The evidence will show that Sattar attempted to do 10 nothing more than assist Atia in escaping from Egypt. He did 11 not even know who this person was at first -- this person who 12 was trying to get out. All he came to realize was that Atia 13 was a fellow Egyptian in need of help. If Taha had any 14 additional agenda beyond wanting to communicate his own point 15 of view to Atia, Sattar did not share in that agenda. Sattar's 16 only concern was to help a brother get out of Egypt. 17 It certainly was no secret to Sattar that if anyone 18 was a fugitive from the Egyptian authorities he was in grave 19 danger if caught. The result would be torture and/or death. 20 And it was for this reason, and this reason alone, that Sattar 21 assisted in providing the communication link for Atia to others 22 in attempting to flee Egypt. Tragically, as it turned out, 23 Sattar's worst fears were realized. Atia was in fact captured 24 and killed by the Egyptian police on October 18, 2000. Sattar 25 understandably was devastated because he felt responsible. It SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2282 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 was his belief at the time that the Egyptian authorities had 2 somehow intercepted his communications with Atia and his allies 3 and, consequently, were able to track him down. 4 It is interesting to note that the only evidence in 5 this case where anyone -- anyone -- is ever a victim during 6 either the time period that the government maintains was a 7 conspiracy to kill or kidnap or the conspiracy to solicit 8 violence was the killing of Atia, and that was done by the 9 Egyptian police. 10 In conclusion, let me just say that both the 11 allegations that Sattar conspired with others to kill and 12 kidnap persons in a foreign country as stated in Count 2, and 13 that he solicited others to engage in violent terrorist 14 operations as stated in Count 3, were to have taken place from 15 September '99 through the date of his arrest in April 2002. 16 The evidence will show during this entire period of 17 time the United States government was intercepting all of my 18 client's communications right up to one month before he was 19 arrested. Amazing as it might seem but for those 7 years, 20 beginning in March '95, when coincidentally he was actually 21 assisting in the defense of the sheikh during his trial, and 22 continuing these interceptions all the way to March 2002, they 23 listened to every word spoken, e-mailed or faxed by my client. 24 They listened very carefully to my client during this entire 25 period. They listened to his communicating with Taha in SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2283 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 assisting the fatwah, in issuing the fatwah. They listened to 2 his assisting Atia, and they listened while he received the 3 sheikh's opinion on the initiative. And yet it is obvious that 4 during this entire time the government did not believe that any 5 of my client's communications was of very much concern. 6 Certainly he did not present any cause for alarm or fear of a 7 realistic, imminent threat or danger to anyone. 8 I submit to you that the government did not believe, 9 nor did it have any reason to suspect, that any of my client's 10 communications would result in the killing or kidnapping of 11 anyone or that a crime of violence was actually being solicited 12 and about to be committed. Why do I say this? Because the 13 evidence will show that the communications with the sheikh 14 concerning his withdrawal of support for the initiative was in 15 May and June of 2000. The conversations regarding the 16 assistance to Atia took place for several months and continued 17 to October 2000. And the fatwah -- this fatwah that was issued 18 in October 2000 -- and yet the government did not arrest my 19 client until April 2002, over 1-1/2 years after the fatwah. 20 You can be sure, ladies and gentlemen, that if the 21 government really suspected or feared something was about to 22 occur, or there was any concern that my client was a real 23 threat to anyone, they would not have awaited to arrest him 24 until 1-1/2 years later. And you can't just casually sweep 25 this fact under the rug as Mr. Morvillo did yesterday at the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2284 46NSSAT3 Paul - opening 1 very near end of his opening remarks. You can't just say, oh, 2 the reason for the delay in any arrest was really due to 3 national security interests that took precedence over any 4 criminal investigation. Really? Took precedence over someone 5 about to be killed or violence about to happen? I don't think 6 so. 7 I submit to you that it's more likely that Sattar 8 wasn't arrested for over 1-1/2 years because the U.S. 9 authorities never had any cause to fear Sattar because he was 10 never a true danger to anyone. 11 All of what I have said only underscores the 12 importance for each of you to keep an open mind and wait until 13 you have heard all of the evidence. If you do that, and you 14 evaluate the facts of this case objectively in a fair and 15 impartial way, then you will have upheld your oath as a fair 16 and impartial juror that you have assured us you would do, and 17 no one could ask more of you than that. 18 I am also confident that if you do this and apply the 19 facts of the case to the law as given to you by Judge Koeltl at 20 the end of this case, then you will agree that the government 21 has failed to prove Ahmed Abdel Sattar guilty beyond a 22 reasonable doubt as to any of the charges and your verdict 23 should be just that -- not guilty. 24 Thank you. 25 THE COURT: All right. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2285 46NSSAT3 1 Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes the opening 2 statements and we will take a break now for 15 minutes and then 3 we will turn to that portion of the trial in which the 4 government is given the opportunity to present evidence to you 5 and the defendants are given the opportunity to cross examine, 6 and we will pass out the legal pads and pens and envelopes for 7 you at that time. 8 So remember my continuing instructions not to talk 9 about the case, keep an open mind. 10 Have a good break and I will see you in about 15 11 minutes. 12 All rise please. 13 (Jury left the courtroom) 14 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, there are one or two legal 15 matters I want to discuss before Mr. Fitzgerald testifies. We 16 can do that after the break before we come back out. 17 THE COURT: All right. You can have a seat. 18 MR. MORVILLO: With respect to the memoranda that we 19 discussed earlier this morning, your Honor, the July 5, 2000 20 memo and the October 13, 2001 memo written by Mr. Fitzgerald, 21 the redactions thereto, the first issue I wanted to talk about 22 was the portions that are classified. 23 Your Honor, we can't simply hand that to you, bring it 24 over here to court without a court security officer escorting 25 those documents directly to you. As the court may recall, the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2286 46NSSAT3 1 government moved back in September of 2003 under CIPA for a 2 court order protecting those documents and the court granted 3 that order at the time. So I don't think that even once the 4 direct examination of Mr. Fitzgerald is concluded today that 5 your Honor will have an opportunity to review the secret 6 portions of those memos until arrangements can be made with a 7 court security officer and perhaps a new CIPA motion filed with 8 the court sometime this evening perhaps. 9 It may be as simple as resubmitting what we previously 10 submitted. So to the extent the court decides that that is 11 3500 material after reviewing it and CIPA doesn't apply, Mr. 12 Fitzgerald may have to come back if there are further questions 13 based on the secret material. 14 Secondly, the government continues to maintain that 15 the redacted portions of these documents are not relevant to 16 the subject matter of Mr. Fitzgerald's testimony and I think 17 the court will find, based on the limited direct examination on 18 these issues that I intend to do, there will be no reason to 19 disclose these matters. But the government does believe that 20 this information is protected work product of Mr. Fitzgerald, 21 of the government, and therefore is appropriately redacted and 22 necessary to protect at this time. 23 The second issue that I wanted to raise with your 24 Honor was something that I raised with defense counsel at the 25 prior break and it relates to the judicial notice issue. My SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2287 46NSSAT3 1 intention had been to ask Mr. Fitzgerald during his direct 2 examination what is meant by the term seditious conspiracy. My 3 understanding is that his answer would be it is a conspiracy or 4 a criminal agreement to wage a war against the United States, 5 nothing more than that. 6 My understanding is that the defendants object to that 7 and we bring it to your attention because we are going to need 8 a ruling from your Honor as to whether it is admissible 9 testimony. 10 My concern, the government's concern, is that the jury 11 is going to hear that Sheikh Abdel Rahman was convicted of a 12 seditious conspiracy but have absolutely no idea what that 13 means. And without Mr. Fitzgerald to testify or perhaps for 14 the court to inform the jury based on the language of the 15 statute that it is in fact a conspiracy to wage or levy war 16 against the United States is relevant, admissible, nonconfusing 17 and therefore the government would submit that testimony should 18 be allowed. It's very limited and that is all we are asking 19 for. 20 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, we moved in limine to exclude 21 it because it would display the most appalling ignorance of the 22 text of the applicable statutes under the constitutional 23 history of sedition. A seditious conspiracy is not levying war 24 against the United States. That is treason. That is defined 25 in the Constitution and that is quite some other thing. A SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2288 46NSSAT3 1 seditious conspiracy is a conspiracy to oppose or against the 2 authority of the United States or the laws thereof. 3 In any case, your Honor, we don't see the prospect of 4 jury confusion. We don't think Mr. Fitzgerald should be in the 5 position of instructing the jury about it and we see no reason 6 for the court to do so. 7 THE COURT: I agree with that. But the parties worked 8 out a stipulation with great care about what the jury would be 9 instructed about the nature of the conviction and I explained 10 how the conviction would fit into this case and this was the 11 stipulation, appropriate limiting instruction with an 12 additional limiting instruction which the parties agreed upon, 13 and it appears to me that the request is to go further than 14 that and I agree that that is not within the stipulation and 15 not within the limited way that I said that the conviction 16 could be used. 17 So that is not a proper question and you can 18 separately argue to me as to whether as a matter of law I ever 19 define seditious conspiracy by reading matters of law to the 20 jury, matters of law for the court and not issues of fact. But 21 I think that for purposes for which the conviction is being 22 offered the stipulation or the agreement by the parties as to 23 the judicial notice that I should take is sufficient. 24 Now, with respect to your first issue, obviously we 25 will await to see what the direct is. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2289 46NSSAT3 1 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, with respect to the second 2 issue, the government can provide the court with Judge 3 Mukasey's instructions that were given during the underlying 4 trial and of course will not require Mr. Fitzgerald. We will 5 raise the issue with you at the appropriate time as to whether 6 the jury should be instructed as to the meaning of sedition. 7 (Continued on next page) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2290 46NMSAT4 1 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, just a logistical issue 2 relating to the classified portions of the memorandum. As Mr. 3 Morvillo explained, the government would need to seek the 4 assistance of the court security officer to bring the document 5 to your Honor. If your Honor wishes to get it sooner, we could 6 seek to reach the court security officer during the lunch 7 recess and see if an appropriate person could be located to 8 bring it over to your Honor at lunchtime. That would require 9 the government to essentially resubmit to your Honor unchanged 10 its prior CIPA submission with the memorandum with it. 11 THE COURT: Do the defendants have a view on this? 12 MR. RUHNKE: Your Honor, our view is the government 13 ought to get it to you as soon as possible. My view. 14 THE COURT: I'm sorry? 15 MR. RUHNKE: That's my view. I don't know if anybody 16 has a different view. It seems obvious it is something that 17 your Honor has to review in making a Jencks determination. You 18 ought to get it as soon as possible. That's our particular 19 view. 20 THE COURT: You know, it has been many months since I 21 reviewed the materials with respect to the issues of CIPA And 22 what, if any, result there was under CIPA, whether this was 23 some of the passages for which the government offered an 24 alternative statement as a substitute or whether these were 25 simply passages that, under the terms of the statute, didn't SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2291 46NMSAT4 1 reasonably have to be disclosed. 2 MS. BAKER: To refresh your Honor's recollection, 3 there were two Fitzgerald documents that your Honor reviewed 4 before the last hearing as to which the government sought 5 relief under CIPA. As to one document the government offered 6 an unclassified substitution which your Honor approved. That 7 was a different document. As to this particular document that 8 we are discussing, the government presented your Honor with the 9 redacted version, which is the same as the version currently. 10 And when I say redacted in this context, I mean with certain 11 secret portions blacked out. We submitted that redaction to 12 your Honor along with an unredacted version for your Honor to 13 compare it to, and as to this particular document your Honor 14 agreed that the secret portions that had been blacked out could 15 remain blacked out and did not need to be disclosed to the 16 defendant. 17 THE COURT: I don't know what the direct is, 18 obviously. The way in which this came up last time was the 19 issue was a narrow issue that was at issue on the prior 20 testimony. And, second, the witness was never called on 21 direct. The witness was called by the defendant. So there was 22 never any 26.2 determination, no Jencks Act issue. It all -- 23 MS. BAKER: In the interest of getting the document to 24 your Honor as quickly as possible, we would ask permission to 25 try to reach the court security officer over the lunch break. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2292 46NMSAT4 1 He would presumably need to make specific arrangements to send 2 over the document. So we would ask permission to essentially 3 resubmit the prior CIPA filing. We submit that your Honor will 4 find that even though you're looking at the redactions to the 5 memorandum now in a different context that you will nonetheless 6 conclude that the things that are redacted, because they are 7 secret, are a very small portion of the entire document. And 8 we submit that even though you're now looking at it in a 9 different context, that those redactions will prove to be 10 equally as irrelevant in this context as they were in the prior 11 context. 12 THE COURT: All right. You can reach me over the 13 lunch break. 14 MS. SHELLOW-LAVINE: Your Honor, before I break, I 15 want to make sure that Ms. Baker realizes that I believe that 16 there are two memoranda that are at issue. One is dated July 17 5, 2000 and one is dated October 13, 2001. 18 MS. BAKER: It is the government's understanding that 19 your Honor is reviewing two memoranda as to things that the 20 government redacted because they are outside of the scope of 21 Mr. Fitzgerald's testimony; and as Mr. Morvillo said earlier, 22 because they touch on sensitive subject matters, including 23 government work product, that that affects two documents, but 24 that the more narrow issue of things that were blacked out 25 because they are classified only affects one document. And I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2293 46NMSAT4 1 thought that we were just now discussing just the one issue. 2 THE COURT: I'm looking at the documents. 3 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, the July 5, 2000 memo was 4 entirely declassified. There is nothing in that document -- 5 THE COURT: I see that. It is only 3516(q). And the 6 number of redactions in that memo for classified reasons is 7 fairly small. I appreciate that you can't tell that because it 8 falls within simply the portion that's marked redacted. 9 MR. MORVILLO: Actually, your Honor, I believe 10 although you can correct me if I'm wrong, that in 3516(q), the 11 secret portions are blacked out And the redacted portions are 12 whited out. So there is a distinction. 13 THE COURT: Can the defendant see what's blacked out? 14 MR. MORVILLO: They can see the blacking out. 15 THE COURT: Thank you. 16 Okay. 17 (Recess) 18 (Jury not present) 19 THE COURT: Let's bring in the jury. 20 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, the government is going to 21 offer during Mr. Fitzgerald's direct examination several 22 transcripts that were introduced in evidence during the 23 underlying Abdel Rahman trial and at some point the government 24 will request the opportunity to read those to the jury. Some 25 of them are quite long. And for purposes of a quick SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2294 46NMSAT4 1 presentation we don't feel it is necessary to have 2 Mr. Fitzgerald on the stand when we do that, unless the Court 3 has an objection to that. 4 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, we had been informed that 5 there were transcripts. We had not been informed that 6 Mr. Fitzgerald was their sponsor. With respect to that we did 7 have 106 material that we were intending to bring. It is not 8 important to me because we didn't know that and therefore -- 9 THE COURT: Let me ask Mr. Fletcher to hold the jury 10 up just so -- I wasn't sure if someone was coming in. 11 Hold on one moment. 12 Ladies and gentlemen, please. 13 Mr. Tigar. 14 MR. TIGAR: I'm hearing about this intention for the 15 first time, your Honor, and I'm surprised by it. 16 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, to the extent that there 17 are 106 objections, we are not planning on reading them today. 18 We can read them tomorrow after the objections can be heard. 19 THE COURT: They are not objections. They are 20 requests to include other material. 21 MR. TIGAR: Yes, your Honor. Now I am out of the 22 loop. Why is it necessary for Mr. Fitzgerald to say anything 23 about these transcripts? They speak for themselves. 24 MR. MORVILLO: Mr. Fitzgerald is simply the witness 25 through whom they will be introduced into evidence. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2295 46NMSAT4 1 MR. TIGAR: If they are transcripts from the trial 2 that are otherwise admissible, we stipulate to that foundation, 3 your Honor. We agree to it. We won't raise any objection like 4 that. 5 THE COURT: Okay. 6 MR. TIGAR: We may have relevance objections, but the 7 foundation we don't care about. 8 MR. MORVILLO: I'm talking about the exhibits that 9 were introduced into evidence in the underlying trial. In 10 other words, transcripts of tape recordings of speeches by 11 Sheikh Abdul Rahman and of telephone calls by Sheikh Abdul 12 Rahman that were introduced in evidence at the underlying 13 trial. 14 MR. TIGAR: May I have a moment, your Honor? 15 Your Honor, we will not make a foundational objection 16 of any sort to exhibits that were offered and received in 17 evidence in Sheikh Abdul Rahman's trial. We will make 18 relevancy and all the rest of them, which we will raise at the 19 appropriate procedural hour. I hope that's a way to cut 20 through all this and save time. 21 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, the government would like 22 to show these documents to Mr. Fitzgerald and have them 23 authenticated properly. They are very relevant to this case 24 and to demonstrate the knowledge, in particular, of defendant 25 Stewart. And so we think it is appropriate for them to come in SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2296 46NMSAT4 1 through Mr. Fitzgerald and we plan to do it that way. It will 2 not take more than three or four minutes of testimony. 3 MR. TIGAR: The documents take nothing, your Honor, 4 from the fact that Mr. Fitzgerald knows about them, nothing 5 and, therefore, we object. Exhibits speak for themselves, 6 relevantly or not. 7 MR. RUHNKE: Your Honor, can I add one more thought to 8 that process. If the documents are identified in front of the 9 jury and later on relevance, 403, and other objections are in 10 fact sustained by the Court, the existence of certain documents 11 that don't come into evidence will be in front of the jury. 12 There is no need to go through that process if people are 13 willing to stipulate to the foundation. 14 THE COURT: I agree with that. If there are going to 15 be objections with respect to relevance and 403, then I can't 16 admit the documents without listening to argument with respect 17 to that. There is agreement by all of the defendants, from 18 what I've heard, that exhibits received in evidence in the 19 course of Sheikh Rahman's trial are admissible in evidence 20 without any further authenticity, foundation objections, that 21 the only issue that will be raised by the defendants is 22 relevance and 403. So all exhibits from the Sheikh Rahman 23 trial and 106. 24 So I can consider all of those exhibits without taking 25 the witness's time and consider all of the relevance and 403 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2297 46NMSAT4 1 objections. I realize that what you want to do is -- and I'm 2 doing this in front of the witness because there is nothing 3 that I have said that affects the witness's testimony. I 4 realize that what you want to do is to say that in the course 5 of the trial there was evidence, was there not, of speeches by 6 Sheikh Abdel Rahman or other individual items of evidence as a 7 prelude to the introduction of that evidence in order to be 8 able to make the arguments about what effect that had on the 9 defendants. 10 You can ask those questions and we can, as you had 11 wanted to do, leave to tomorrow or next week the specific 12 pieces of evidence after I have listened to the arguments with 13 respect to relevance and 403 and 106 so that you can ask the 14 necessary foundation questions of the witness so that it is 15 clear to the jury where this evidence is coming from and where 16 it fits into this case without actually admitting now all of 17 the speeches. You said it would take four or five minutes. I 18 have reduced it to about two minutes, but it is to the same 19 effect. 20 MR. MORVILLO: Can I present them to the witness for 21 identification purposes? 22 THE COURT: You can have the witness identify 23 exhibits, but that doesn't make them in evidence. 24 MR. MORVILLO: I understand that. And my 25 understanding is there will be argument on 403 and 106 grounds SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2298 46NMSAT4 1 down the road on these exhibits, but to put them in context so 2 that when we talk about them tomorrow and then once they are 3 ultimately read to the jury, the jury will know precisely which 4 documents Mr. Fitzgerald was talking about when he testified. 5 THE COURT: Mr. Ruhnke. 6 MR. RUHNKE: The argument has now come full circle. 7 The government has come back to where it was in the first 8 place. It says it wants Mr. Fitzgerald to sponsor certain 9 exhibits, identify what they are. They weren't going to be 10 read now anyway. And the danger still remains that the jury 11 will be presented with a pile of documents that your Honor may 12 rule they are not entitled to see or any speculation on their 13 part, what was it that this witness identified that we never 14 did get to see. 15 Mr. Morvillo is just right back to where he started. 16 If the foundation is there and the only objections are 106 and 17 Article IV objections, there is no reason to have 18 Mr. Fitzgerald handle the exhibits, look at them, identify them 19 if later on they may not come into evidence at all. I think 20 the positions of the parties are exactly the same as they were. 21 And I thought your Honor had -- I think the positions of the 22 parties are as they were. 23 MR. MORVILLO: So I have the contours of the 24 stipulation that's being proposed by the defendants, are the 25 defendants agreeing to stipulate that these documents and these SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2299 46NMSAT4 1 tapes are in fact Abdel Rahman trial exhibits? 2 THE COURT: They have gone further than that. They 3 really have gone further than that. Exhibits introduced in 4 evidence at the trial of Abdel Rahman are admissible in 5 evidence in this case. There are no authenticity or foundation 6 objections. The exhibits are what they purport to be. If they 7 are alleged tapes of speeches by Abdel Rahman admitted at the 8 trial of Abdel Rahman, they are admissible over -- no 9 authenticity, foundation objections. The only objections 10 reserved are relevance, 403, and 106 completeness. And with 11 that as the stipulation they can be either read to the jury in 12 accordance with the stipulation of the parties or, if the 13 parties want the Court -- I believe it is a stipulation, 14 actually, rather than judicial notice. 15 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, that's what we are trying to 16 figure out. Are the defendants agreeing that at the later time 17 when the exhibits get presented to the jury if all other 18 objections are resolved, that the jury can be told, these were 19 exhibits at the Abdel Rahman trial? 20 MR. TIGAR: Yes, your Honor. And that goes for the 21 transcript, too. 22 THE COURT: I believe that that's clear. So they can 23 be authenticated both as what they purport to be and as 24 exhibits received at the trial of Abdel Rahman, right? 25 MR. TIGAR: Yes, your Honor. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2300 46NMSAT4 1 THE COURT: And all defendants agree? 2 MR. RUHNKE: Yes. 3 MR. MORVILLO: Very well, your Honor. 4 THE COURT: Does the government agree also? 5 MR. MORVILLO: Yes, your Honor, we do. 6 THE COURT: So it would be a stipulation among all of 7 the parties. 8 Let's bring in the jury. 9 (Jury present) 10 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, as I mentioned 11 before our break, we will turn in a moment to the part of the 12 case in which the government is given the opportunity to 13 present evidence, defense is given the opportunity to 14 cross-examine. 15 Before I do that, just a couple of preliminary 16 matters. We have left the pads and manila envelopes and pens 17 on your chairs and we will leave additional pads for you in the 18 jury room should those pads run out. 19 Please remember my continuing instruction about taking 20 notes. You are under absolutely under no obligation to take 21 notes. If you do take notes, keep them to yourself. Remember 22 that some people remember better if they don't take notes. 23 Some people remember if they do take notes. Whether you decide 24 to take notes is completely up to you, but don't let your note 25 taking, if you do take notes, interfere with your observation SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2301 46NMSAT4 1 of the witness and your listening to all of the answers. 2 We took a slightly longer break and you almost came in 3 to the courtroom and I asked you to go back. And the reason 4 that that happens from time to time is, I try to deal with 5 legal issues while you are outside the courtroom. It is, I 6 think, more convenient for you, more comfortable for you to be 7 back in the jury room waiting rather than waiting for me to 8 deal with legal questions. We try to use your time in the 9 courtroom as efficiently and productively for you as possible. 10 That's why I try and deal with legal issues while you're not 11 here in the courtroom. So I appreciate your indulgence if at 12 various times the breaks appear to be longer. It is obviously 13 no one's fault. It is my way of dealing with legal issues. 14 With that, the government may call its first witness. 15 MR. MORVILLO: Thank you, your Honor. The government 16 calls Patrick Fitzgerald. 17 PATRICK FITZGERALD, 18 called as a witness by the Government, 19 having been duly sworn, testified as follows: 20 DIRECT EXAMINATION 21 BY MR. MORVILLO: 22 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Fitzgerald. 23 A. Good afternoon. 24 Q. How are you employed? 25 A. Currently, I'm the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2302 46NMSAT4 Fitzgerald - direct 1 of Illinois, which is Chicago. 2 Q. Can you briefly describe for the jury what your job 3 responsibilities for as a U.S. Attorney in Chicago? 4 A. I run the U.S. Attorney's Office as the law enforcement 5 officer in charge of the Northern District of Illinois, which 6 is Chicago and 17 other counties. 7 Q. And what are the responsibilities of the U.S. Attorney's 8 Office? 9 A. Enforcing the law both criminally and civilly, both 10 defending the government in civil actions when the government 11 is sued civilly, or doing affirmative lawsuits on behalf of the 12 government or private parties, but most of the work is criminal 13 law enforcement where. We are prosecutors and out of the 150 14 attorneys in the office, about 130 do criminal law enforcement, 15 everything from drugs to white collar, to corruption, to the 16 whole gamut. 17 Q. And you're the head of the office? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. How long have you been employed as the U.S. Attorney in 20 Chicago? 21 A. Since September 2001. 22 Q. How were you employed prior to that time? 23 A. From September 1988 until August 2001, I was an Assistant 24 U.S. Attorney here in the Southern District of New York. 25 Q. And did you hold any supervisory positions when you were an SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2303 46NMSAT4 Fitzgerald - direct 1 Assistant U.S. Attorney in the Southern District of New York? 2 A. I was a line assistant for a number of years. I was chief 3 of narcotics for maybe six months, and then from late '95 to 4 early '96, I served as a cochief for the organized crime and 5 terrorism unit in the Southern District of New York, until I 6 left in August 2001. 7 Q. Are you familiar with an individual named Sheikh Abdul 8 Rahman? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. How are you familiar with him? 11 A. I had heard of him, but I began working on a case involving 12 his prosecution some time in the spring of 1994. And then I 13 was one of three prosecutors at the trial of Sheikh Omar Abdel 14 Rahman from January 1995 through October 1, 1995. So I spent 15 roughly nine months in the courtroom with him. 16 Q. What was Sheikh Abdul Rahman charged with? 17 A. He was charged with seditious conspiracy, he was charged 18 with soliciting crimes of violence, he was charged with 19 conspiracy to bomb, and he was charged with conspiracy to 20 murder. 21 Q. When did that trial begin? 22 A. January 1995. I think it was January 11, but definitely 23 the month of January 1995. 24 Q. How long did that trial last? 25 A. Nine months. It ended on October 1, 1995. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2304 46NMSAT4 Fitzgerald - direct 1 Q. Was Abdel Rahman represented by counsel at trial? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Who was his counsel? 4 A. He had several counsel. The lead attorney for Abdel Rahman 5 was Lynne Stewart and also representing Mr. Abdel Rahman was 6 Ramsey Clark, and a fellow by the name of Abdeen Jabarra. 7 Q. Other than the testimony of live witnesses during that 8 trial, were there exhibits offered into evidence against Abdel 9 Rahman during that trial? 10 A. Yes. A large number of exhibits. I don't know the number. 11 Q. Did those exhibits consist of statements and speeches by 12 Abdel Rahman? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Did they consist of videotapes of speeches by Abdel Rahman? 15 A. They included videotapes and audiotapes. I think there 16 were more audiotapes than videotapes of the speeches, and then 17 translations of what those audiotapes and videotapes said into 18 English. 19 Q. And were there also intercepted telephone conversations 20 introduced into evidence at that trial? 21 A. Yes. There was a wiretap on the home telephone of Sheikh 22 Abdul Rahman that was admitted at the trial, and there were 23 wiretaps of other people. I don't know if any of them had 24 called his phone, but with regard to Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman 25 there was a wiretap on his telephone in New Jersey and the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2305 46NMSAT4 Fitzgerald - direct 1 transcripts of those calls, I think they were mostly 2 translations because the conversations were in Arabic, were 3 admitted. 4 Q. How were those transcripts and translations presented to 5 the jury during that trial? 6 A. Anything that was in Arabic I don't think we played too 7 many of the Arabic exhibits unless there was a videotape. When 8 it was an Arabic conversation, an agent or a person who knew 9 about the wiretap would explain that here is a reel of 10 conversations that were recorded. There was a particular 11 conversation on this date at this time. We made a copy of it 12 from the reel onto a cassette and then a Arabic translator 13 would then testify that they took this cassette, they would 14 initial it, they listened to the tape, they prepared a 15 transcript of it -- not a transcript -- a translation of it so 16 whatever was in Arabic was translated into English, and they 17 would then verify the transcript by listening to the tape of 18 the conversation next to the transcript, and testify that it 19 was fair and accurate. 20 They would also, either by the witness saying they 21 were familiar with the particular voices, would identify who 22 was speaking either because they knew the voice or sometimes 23 there might have been a stipulation as to was speaking, and 24 oftentimes in telephone conversations people would say hello, 25 this is so and so and they would self-identify. That's how SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2306 46NMSAT4 Fitzgerald - direct 1 they prepared for the telephone calls. 2 Q. How were they presented to the jury once the transcripts 3 were in evidence and the translations were in evidence? 4 A. My recollection was the rule that we had was to read the 5 entire transcript to the jury so that whatever was in the 6 transcript we would read it completely. And if there were 7 different parts to it we would have different people read. The 8 first person speaking would be read by one person, somebody 9 else would read it. If it was an audiotape or a videotape, if 10 there was a transcript, the standing rule I recall was we 11 wouldn't pick out a sentence in the transcript. We would read 12 the whole thing while the evidence was presented to the jury. 13 Q. And where were these materials obtained from, the 14 underlying materials? 15 A. Well, besides the wiretap, which was a recording on the 16 phone, there were searches at various places. There was a 17 search of somebody's residence in New Jersey. There were -- 18 some person gave us some tapes. Some people made tapes. They 19 came from a variety of different places. There was a search 20 overseas that obtained tapes. From a variety of searches, and 21 some witnesses may have given us tapes. And one witness made 22 tapes by recording -- secretly recording some conversations. 23 Q. You testified that the trial lasted approximately nine 24 months? 25 A. Yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2307 46NMSAT4 Fitzgerald - direct 1 MR. MORVILLO: May I approach, your Honor? 2 THE COURT: Yes. 3 Q. Mr. Fitzgerald, I'm handing you what's been marked for 4 identification as Government Exhibit 2050B and 2300A through D. 5 I would ask you to take a look through these and let me know if 6 you recognize them? 7 A. Looking at what's marked as Government Exhibit 2050B, it is 8 a photograph of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, I think, sitting on 9 his couch in New Jersey. I recognize the person, not the 10 couch. 11 Government Exhibit 2300A through D are pictures and I 12 recognize in the pictures the same person, Sheikh Omar Abdel 13 Rahman, in an outdoor environment and in each one of them he is 14 wearing a hat colored white and red. 15 In 2300A, he is wearing a white garment; 2300B, he is 16 wearing a white garment; 2300C, he is wearing a darker garment, 17 could be brown; and 2300D, he is wearing definitely a dark 18 brown garment. 19 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, the government offers into 20 evidence Government Exhibit 2050B and 2300A through D. 21 MR. TIGAR: May I take the witness on the voir dire? 22 THE COURT: Yes. 23 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION 24 BY MR. TIGAR: 25 Q. Taking a look at 2300C, Mr. Fitzgerald, would you do that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2308 46NMSAT4 Fitzgerald - direct 1 for me, please? 2 A. Sure. 3 Q. When was that taken? 4 A. I didn't take the photograph, but I can give you an idea. 5 Q. Do you have any personal knowledge, sir, of where it was 6 taken? 7 A. Personal knowledge, no. 8 Q. 2300D, same question. Do you have any personal knowledge 9 of where it was taken? 10 A. No. I was not there when it was taken. 11 Q. 2300A, same question. 12 A. Yes. Everything in the 2300 letter series. 13 Q. When did you first see the photographs? 14 A. Last evening. 15 Q. So these photographs didn't have anything to do with your 16 prosecution of Sheikh Abdul Rahman, did they? 17 A. No. We didn't use these photographs in the photographs of 18 Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman. 19 Q. Without telling me what, if anything, someone told you, did 20 someone tell you where they had been taken? 21 A. No. I could figure it out by looking at it. 22 Q. Could you figure out by looking at them when they were 23 taken? 24 A. Yes. I can rule out when they weren't -- I can rule out a 25 decade in which they were not taken. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2309 46NMSAT4 Fitzgerald - direct 1 Q. Were they taken in the 1980s? 2 A. I believe so. 3 MR. TIGAR: May I have a moment, your Honor? 4 THE COURT: Yes. 5 Q. Is it your understanding they were taken in Afghanistan? 6 A. That's my belief. I wasn't there, but it looks to me like 7 it is in Afghanistan. The reason why I ruled out the 1990s, I 8 don't believe that Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman went to Afghanistan 9 in the 1990s, but I wasn't there when the photograph was taken. 10 Q. Your understanding, sir, is these pictures were taken when 11 Sheikh Abdul Rahman visited Afghanistan in the 1980s, correct? 12 A. That would be my belief from just looking at the 13 photographs and knowing where he was at different times. 14 Q. At that time were you -- is it your understanding that he 15 went to Afghanistan with the permission of the United States of 16 America? 17 MR. MORVILLO: Objection, your Honor. This is far 18 beyond the scope of voir dire. 19 THE COURT: Sustained. 20 MR. TIGAR: I object on the grounds of relevance. 21 THE COURT: Overruled. Let me see the photos. 22 MR. TIGAR: And 403, your Honor. 23 THE COURT: I'll reserve on 2300A through D. 24 2050B received in evidence. 25 (Government's Exhibit 2050B received in evidence) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2310 46NMSAT4 Fitzgerald - direct 1 MR. TIGAR: I'm sorry, your Honor. Could you repeat 2 the number, please? 3 THE COURT: 2050B received in evidence. 4 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, may I publish 2050B to the 5 jury? 6 THE COURT: Yes. 7 BY MR. MORVILLO: 8 Q. Mr. Fitzgerald, you testified that the trial of Sheikh Omar 9 Abdel Rahman ended on October 1, 1995, is that correct? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. What was the result of that trial? 12 A. The defendant, Omar Abdel Rahman, was convicted of those 13 charges I described, seditious conspiracy, soliciting crimes of 14 violence, conspiracy to murder, conspiracy to bomb. 15 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, at this time the government 16 would request that the Court take judicial notice of the 17 conviction of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman. 18 THE COURT: Yes. 19 Ladies and gentlemen, I have taken judicial notice of 20 certain facts which I believe are not subject to reasonable 21 dispute: Specifically that: 22 1. Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman was convicted on January 23 17, 1996 of seditious conspiracy, solicitation of crimes of 24 violence, conspiracy to murder, and bombing conspiracy, and was 25 sentenced by Judge Michael B. Mukasey of this court to a term SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2311 46NMSAT4 Fitzgerald - direct 1 of life imprisonment. 2 2. His conviction was affirmed by the United States 3 Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit on August 16, 1999; and 4 3. The Supreme Court of the United States declined to 5 review his case on November 1, 1999. 6 I have accepted these facts to be true even though no 7 evidence has been introduced proving them to be true. The 8 facts of which I have taken judicial notice do not bind you to 9 conclude that Sheikh Abdel Rahman was in fact guilty of those 10 offenses. You may, but are not required, to agree that the 11 facts of which I have taken judicial notice are true. 12 The fact of conviction and the subsequent appellate 13 review is not evidence of the guilt of Sheikh Abdel Rahman, and 14 none of the defendants are bound by those determinations 15 because none of the defendants was a party in that case. 16 MR. MORVILLO: May I have a moment, your Honor? 17 THE COURT: Sure. 18 Q. Mr. Fitzgerald, do you recall when Sheikh Abdul Rahman was 19 sentenced? 20 A. Yes. January 17, I believe, 1996. 21 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, I'm about to move on to 22 another area. If this would be an appropriate time for a lunch 23 break, it would be an appropriate time for me to stop. 24 THE COURT: It is 1:00 and so we will break for lunch 25 until 2:00, ladies and gentlemen. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2312 46NMSAT4 1 Please remember my continuing instructions not to talk 2 about the case, keep an open mind. 3 All rise, please. 4 (Jury not present) 5 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, may I raise a housekeeping 6 matter? 7 THE COURT: Sure. 8 MR. TIGAR: Can we ask counsel not to put their papers 9 on the rail during their interrogation? 10 MR. MORVILLO: They are not my papers. They were on 11 the podium. 12 MR. TIGAR: I apologize, your Honor. 13 THE COURT: Fine. 14 Please be back at ten of two. 15 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, I need to raise again the 16 subject of the Abdel Rahman trial exhibits. At your Honor's 17 pleasure I can do that now -- 18 THE COURT: Have a seat. 19 (Continued on next page) 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2313 46NSSAT5 1 MS. BAKER: The government is offering certain of the 2 Abdel Rahman trial exhibits essentially for two different 3 purposes. One purpose is for their effect on those of the 4 defendants who were present when they were received or read at 5 the Abdel Rahman trial or who received copies of them at around 6 that time. But a different purpose is essentially for their 7 truth or their real content as statements made by Abdel Rahman 8 that accurately reflect his views. 9 THE COURT: Yes, I understand that. 10 MS. BAKER: And so it had been the government's 11 thinking that in order for the evidence to be accepted by the 12 court for those two different purposes and not for the court to 13 end up with the evidence given to the jury only with a limiting 14 instruction, that it's only for it's effect on the defendants, 15 that on the one hand or at the one point in time -- 16 THE COURT: Can I just stop you for a moment? 17 MS. BAKER: Sure. 18 THE COURT:: I really do appreciate both of those 19 issues and the defendants stipulated to the authenticity and 20 foundation for the admissibility of all of the exhibits from 21 the Sheikh Abdel Rahman trial and, as I said and confirmed with 22 the defendants, their admissibility both for authenticity that 23 they are what they purport to be, so speeches of Abdel Rahman 24 or speeches of Abdel Rahman, tapes of conversations with Abdel 25 Rahman or tapes of conversation, they are authentic. All of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2314 46NSSAT5 1 the necessary foundation has been laid that they are what they 2 purport to be as received at the trial, first; and, second, 3 that they were received at the trial and, thus, can be argued 4 for whatever purpose in terms of their effect on any of the 5 trial participants. And so I do understand both of those 6 purposes and we went over both of those with the defendants. 7 Now, when we started it, Mr. Morvillo said but all we 8 want to do is to admit them. We don't want to play them. We 9 don't want to show them to the jury at this point. So they 10 won't have been shown or played to the jury while Mr. 11 Fitzgerald was on the stand in any event and in terms of timing 12 their timing is delayed only so long as the parties can argue 13 to me the issues of relevance, 403, and completeness, and they 14 would go in with a stipulation that all parties agree that 15 these are what they purport -- that they are both what they 16 purport to be and that they were exhibits at the trial of 17 Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman. 18 It seems to me that that was as complete, unless I am 19 missing something, a resolution of the evidentiary issues that 20 were presented to me by the parties with respect to those 21 exhibits at the trial of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman. 22 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, it leaves the government with 23 two questions. First of all, obviously we will communicate 24 further with defense counsel to try to agree upon language that 25 should be presented to the jury, for example, to establish that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2315 46NSSAT5 1 certain of the tapes were found in the home of one of the 2 sheikh's associates in, I believe, New Jersey. Obviously we 3 will have to work out what descriptions of the material would 4 be given to the jury at the time they are presented with any 5 exhibits that are ultimately admitted. 6 But the two remaining questions that the government 7 has are: First, it was the government's intention to begin 8 offering and making use of some of these exhibits over the next 9 couple of days of the trial and so we would request some 10 further guidance from the court as to the timing of when these 11 issues should be addressed further and, second, -- 12 THE COURT: Do it tonight. Start playing them 13 tomorrow or offering them tomorrow if you want. I don't know 14 how long all of this will take. I don't know how much volume 15 there is. The government said that they might have to play 16 considerably more of the trial of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman than 17 they originally intended. I got that from the papers. And it 18 seems that the defendants want to play even more, but you can 19 certainly start and there must be, you know, discrete portions. 20 It's sort of hard to have a cumulative objection or 21 403 objection based on cumulativeness for the first couple of 22 speeches of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman so it should be fairly 23 easy to either work out that stipulation or present the issue 24 to me and begin to start. I certainly don't want to see the 25 trial delayed in any way and it seems to me that the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2316 46NSSAT5 1 stipulation that the parties agreed to will expedite rather 2 than slow things down. 3 MS. BAKER: The other question that the government was 4 left with was it was our intention to call a translator witness 5 who had reviewed the tapes themselves and is prepared to 6 testify that this translator has ensured that there is an 7 accurate translation of the tapes. 8 THE COURT: It seems to me that the defendants do not 9 require that. 10 MS. BAKER: Well, your Honor, with respect, at Abdel 11 Rahman's trial the defendants raised issues as to certain of 12 the translations and that may be part of what Mr. Tigar is 13 alluding to when he makes references to Rule 106 issues. He 14 may feel that if we are offering the transcript that was used 15 at the trial and he had some issue about translation, that he 16 is going to want to bring in whatever other material -- and 17 that is fine -- as to how that speech came in at the time for 18 its effect on the defendants at the time. 19 But, again, going back to the other purpose, which is 20 that these are Abdel Rahman's actual words that actually 21 accurately reflected his views, that is why we want to have an 22 additional translator to say I have reviewed the tape myself 23 and here is my transcript of what I am testifying is an 24 accurate translation. 25 Moreover, Mr. Barkow previously had conversations with SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2317 46NSSAT5 1 Mr. Tigar about this issue and at least in those conversations 2 Mr. Tigar had indicated that he would not stipulate to the 3 accuracy of the translations from the Abdel Rahman trial, just 4 merely that they were translations that were received at that 5 trial. 6 MR. TIGAR: I have read Ms. Khouri's curriculum vitae, 7 your Honor, the translator, and I am satisfied that any effort 8 that I would make to attack her qualifications on Daubert 9 grounds, setting the bar as high as you could, would result in 10 your Honor saying that she is qualified and that it would go to 11 weight, not admissibility. And that is why with respect to the 12 matters about which we are now speaking -- and I am not talking 13 about all the Arabic language materials from the Sattar 14 surveillance and all the rest of it, but just the Abdel Rahman 15 trial -- I am comfortable with your Honor's characterization of 16 what we have agreed to because, as I say, since I have spoken 17 to Mr. Barkow he did furnish me with that curriculum vitae and, 18 you know, I am not out to waste a bunch of time, your Honor, 19 with making foundation objections that aren't going anywhere. 20 MS. BAKER: We have heard Mr. Tigar's revised position 21 and we will make an effort to act accordingly. I do want to 22 let the court know that based on the pretrial conversations 23 when the government was planning the early stages of its case 24 and arranging for witnesses, we obviously had anticipated 25 calling this translator for this purpose, an agent who had SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2318 46NSSAT5 1 seized some of the tapes in searches, and so we are now going 2 to have to do some rescheduling and we ask the court's 3 patience. 4 THE COURT: Okay. That is okay. But we seem to have 5 cut down what would otherwise be some of the witnesses' 6 foundation problems issues, et cetera, and we can move on to 7 playing any tapes, transcripts, and the like, without another 8 translator. And in terms of reshuffling and rescheduling, 9 there is plainly an available body of material to begin to move 10 through more expeditiously. And I appreciate the parties' 11 efforts not to raise issues that they think ultimately would 12 not be reasonably successful. 13 Okay, anything else? 14 See you after lunch. 15 (Luncheon recess) 16 (Continued on next page) 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2319 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 AFTERNOON SESSION 2 2 p.m. 3 THE COURT: Good afternoon all. Please be seated. 4 Let's bring in the jury. 5 (In open court; jury present) 6 PATRICK FITZGERALD resumed. 7 THE COURT: All right, please be seated all. 8 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Mr. Fitzgerald 9 is on the stand. 10 Mr. Fletcher. 11 THE CLERK: Mr. Fitzgerald, you are reminded you are 12 still under oath. 13 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 14 THE COURT: Mr. Morvillo. 15 MR. MORVILLO: Thank you, your Honor. 16 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) 17 BY MR. MORVILLO: 18 Q. Mr. Fitzgerald, good afternoon. 19 A. Good afternoon. 20 Q. Are you familiar with the term special administrative 21 measures? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. In general terms what are they? 24 A. They are special conditions that are imposed by the Bureau 25 of Prisons at the direction of the Attorney General that put SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2320 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 special conditions on certain inmates to make sure that they 2 protect against the risk of violence that might be caused by 3 the inmates. And they got the name from the regulation that 4 was enacted and became effective in I think May '96, called 5 Special Administrative Measures. 6 Q. Are they also sometimes referred to as SAMs? 7 A. Yes, SAMS, special administrative measures. 8 Q. Do you know whether SAMs were ever imposed on Sheikh Omar 9 Abdel Rahman? 10 A. Yes, they definitely were. 11 Q. When was that proposal made? 12 A. I made the proposal they be imposed on Omar Abdel Rahman I 13 believe in January '97, and then they were actually imposed I 14 believe in April '97. 15 Q. Incidentally, Mr. Fitzgerald, are you familiar with an 16 individual named Ahmed Abdel Sattar? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Are you aware whether Mr. Sattar ever sought to have access 19 to Sheikh Abdel Rahman in prison following his conviction? 20 A. Following the conviction of Abdel Rahman Mr. -- 21 Q. That is right. 22 A. Mr. Abdel Sattar sought to visit Abdel Rahman I believe in 23 Missouri at the prison in Springfield, which is where Omar 24 Abdel Rahman was. I recall it happened that he wanted to go 25 out to see him over a weekend and I recall I talked to the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2321 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 warden, Warden Keoheane, and told him that I didn't want that 2 to happen and explained that the special administrative 3 measures were being applied for by me but hadn't been decided 4 yet so I tried to urge him not to let the visit happen, and 5 that was I think in January '97 and it was going to happen on a 6 weekend. 7 Q. Did the reasons why you didn't want Mr. Sattar to visit 8 Sheikh Abdel Rahman in prison include the fact that you were 9 concerned that he had issued statements from Abdel Rahman from 10 prison before? 11 A. Yes, definitely, and I expressed that to the warden orally 12 and then I followed it up in writing. 13 Q. You testified that you proposed the SAMs in January of '97. 14 How involved with the decision to implement the SAMs 15 were you? 16 A. I was pretty involved. I think just to be clear the 17 decision whether to impose the SAMs was made by the Attorney 18 General of the United States, who was then Janet Reno. As I 19 understand the regulations, if she decided that SAMs should be 20 imposed she would issue an order to the director of the Bureau 21 of Prisons, the person who heads the Bureau of Prisons. The 22 Bureau of Prisons is part of the Department of Justice so the 23 boss of the prison system answers to the Attorney General. 24 Having said that, it was her decision. I was the one 25 who pushed for it. I wrote a memorandum. The SAMs were very SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2322 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 new. The regulation had come out the year before so I wrote up 2 what my concerns were, the reasons for the concerns, why I 3 thought these SAMs should be imposed, what the risks were, what 4 the proposed conditions were. It was sort of a new thing and 5 so I laid out what my concerns were and then I sent it through 6 channels from here in the Southern District of New York down to 7 Washington to an office in the Department of Justice that deals 8 with prison issues called the Office of Enforcement Operations. 9 They looked at it. They made changes, suggestions, and it went 10 up the process so a decision was finally made. 11 So I clearly played a big role in that. The ultimate 12 decision was made by the Attorney General. That is the best 13 way I can describe it. 14 Q. In general terms, why did you believe that it was necessary 15 to have special administrative measures imposed on Sheikh Abdel 16 Rahman? 17 MR. TIGAR: Objection, your Honor, the SAMs speak for 18 themselves. 19 THE COURT: Overruled. 20 A. I thought that Sheikh Abdel Rahman posed a very grave 21 danger of causing violence outside if he could communicate 22 messages outside. I saw that he had been convicted of the very 23 offense of soliciting others to commit crimes of violence. He 24 is blind. He doesn't kill people himself. My concern was he 25 could cause others to carry out violence, particularly given SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2323 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 his position and his stature in the group he was part of, and 2 my concern was if he passed messages outside he could cause 3 violence so we had to make sure whoever had contact with him 4 was only for a proper purpose and no messages were passed 5 outside either by phone, by visits, by mail. That was the 6 essential purpose of the SAMs. 7 Q. When you say the group that he was involved with, what do 8 you mean by that? 9 A. It's called Islamic Group, or called Gama'a in Arabic, 10 which is Arabic for group, and that was a group in Egypt that I 11 understood he was the emir or leader of. There was some 12 dispute as to whether he could be a leader because he was a 13 blind man so whatever his formal title was he was a leader of 14 that group and he would issue pronouncements to the group that 15 would indicate what the policy was and I understood if he gave 16 directions people would follow. 17 MR. TIGAR: I object to this and may we have a 18 limiting instruction? 19 THE COURT: Well, I will sustain it at that point. 20 Ladies and gentlemen, the reason for the testimony, 21 it's not being offered for the truth but, rather, for the 22 reasons for the special administrative measures and so that you 23 can assess, among other things, the significance or relevance 24 of anything that was done in connection with the special 25 administrative measures. All right. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2324 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 Q. Mr. Fitzgerald, you testified they were implemented in 2 April '97? 3 A. Yes, I believe that there was an order issued but I 4 remember I saw the documents last night, a letter telling 5 people about it in April '97. 6 Q. Are you familiar with what happens once special 7 administrative measures are formally implemented? 8 A. Yes. The internal memo would suggest why we would do it. 9 If the Attorney General decides it should be imposed she will 10 send a memo to the Bureau of Prisons saying here is what you 11 have to do, and you have to tell the inmates what the rules 12 are. 13 So a condensed version that wouldn't describe all of 14 our reasons or particular facts would be sent to the inmate and 15 then you would also communicate what these restrictions are to 16 the attorney for the inmate. My understanding was that the 17 SAMs I think were even translated into Braille so that Sheikh 18 Abdel Rahman could have them read -- could read them and that 19 was made available to him and at the same time we sent a letter 20 to the attorneys for the inmates for whom SAMs were imposed on. 21 Q. How long, once implemented, did SAMs remain in effect? 22 A. At that time -- 23 Q. On Abdel Rahman? 24 A. At that time when the Attorney General authorized these 25 measures they would last for 120 days, so 4 months, and then SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2325 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 they could be renewed or not and that decision was made by the 2 Attorney General. 3 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, objection, narrative. The 4 documents are here and speak for themselves. 5 THE COURT: Overruled. 6 Q. Were there ever any modifications made to the special 7 administrative measures over time? 8 A. Yes. There were modifications made at different times and 9 I believe at first whenever a modification was made you would 10 have to wait until the 120-day renewal period would come up and 11 then we would suggest modifications. Sometimes the people 12 would approve them and ultimately the Attorney General would 13 make the change. Sometimes they wouldn't adopt the change but 14 we would always wait for the renewal period and later on there 15 was a decision that it was built into the measures that if you 16 were going to do something to lessen the conditions on the 17 inmate consistent with practice and if everyone agreed you 18 could do it without waiting for the 120 days. 19 So if there was a particular condition that was 20 becoming impractical and no one objected, you could remove that 21 condition without waiting the full 4-month period and then just 22 change it the next one. And there were different changes over 23 different times. 24 THE COURT: Let me just pause for a moment. 25 Mr. Fletcher advised me that there was a hand -- SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2326 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 JUROR: We are having a hard time hearing you when you 2 are speaking sometimes. 3 THE COURT: It sometimes happen. I will try and speak 4 into the microphone. 5 Thank you. 6 MR. PAUL: Also, if the witness can speak a little 7 closer to the microphone. 8 THE COURT: Yes. 9 A. If anyone gestures with their ear I will try to do better. 10 Thanks. 11 Q. Mr. Fitzgerald, you just testified that there were 12 mechanisms when to modify the SAMs when the restrictions were 13 being removed. 14 A. Right. 15 Q. That did not apply when more restrictions were being added? 16 A. Yes. If more restrictions were being added the Attorney 17 General had to approve that since she had the power to order 18 them. So in the tightening of the restrictions my 19 understanding was we would have to wait for the renewal period 20 or -- and I guess I don't think we ever did this -- we could go 21 back to her and ask her to change it then. But you would need 22 her personal permission to make the restrictions tighter. 23 Q. When you say "her," you are referring to then Attorney 24 General -- 25 A. Then Attorney General Janet Reno, yes. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2327 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 Q. After the SAMs were initially implemented in April of '97, 2 you testified that there were mechanisms for their renewal. 3 Were the SAMs on Sheikh Abdel Rahman renewed? 4 A. Yes. Every time the 4-month period came up we would submit 5 a memo suggesting renewal. Sometimes we would just say the 6 same conditions and reasons apply so please renew them. 7 Sometimes we would add a fact if something new had happened, 8 and I was involved in that process every 4 months but it became 9 fairly routine. Sometimes a paralegal helped me and at a 10 certain point in time I became busy with other things and so 11 somebody else stepped in and started handling the renewals. 12 But as far as I know they were always renewed. 13 Q. You mentioned paralegal. What is his name? 14 A. Gerard Francisco. 15 Q. Did the United States Attorney's Office for the Southern 16 District of New York play any role in the administration of the 17 special administrative measures for Sheikh Abdel Rahman? 18 A. Yes, in two respects. 19 One, we would have the contact with the attorneys for 20 an inmate. That is just traditional. So the Bureau of Prisons 21 would go to Omar Abdel Rahman and give him the notice and do 22 whatever it was that they did. But we would have the contact 23 with the attorneys to say here is the affirmation -- an 24 affirmation is like an affidavit -- we want to you sign a sworn 25 statement that says you understand what the rules are and you SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2328 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 will follow them and we would mail it out to them along with 2 the special administrative measures. 3 In addition, if someone wanted to use a translator we 4 would be the ones to clear it. They couldn't use a translator, 5 and I would have to check the regulations whether we had to 6 approve a paralegal. If they wanted to put someone, get 7 permission to go into the facility a number of people had to 8 sign off on that, including the U.S. Attorney's Office. 9 Q. Directing your attention to the spring of 2000, was Sheikh 10 Abdel Rahman still subject to special administrative measures 11 at that time? 12 A. Yes. 13 MR. MORVILLO: May I approach, your Honor? 14 THE COURT: Yes. 15 Q. Mr. Mr. Fitzgerald, I have handed you what has been marked 16 for identification as Government Exhibit 6. Actually I think I 17 kept the original myself. 18 A. I have the original 6. 19 Q. All right. 20 A. This has the original sticker. 21 Q. Okay. 22 Do you recognize that document? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What is it? 25 A. This is a document that has a FedEx shipping label on the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2329 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 top that shows who it was sent to, who it was sent by, which 2 was someone who used to work in the U.S. Attorney's Office, an 3 attorney, to an attorney for Abdel Rahman, and then the first 4 page of the exhibit is an April 5, 2000 letter, a transmittal 5 letter addressed to three attorneys signed by Paul Butler. 6 Paul Butler was assistant you U.S. Attorney in the 7 Southern District of New York. He was in my section and so I 8 supervised him. I was co-chief of the unit and he was one of 9 the people I supervised. He was also working directly with me 10 on a different case at the time. So I was working closely with 11 him. 12 One of the things I asked him to do, because we had 13 special administrative measures in that case as well, was to 14 help me with these things so he would work with Gerard 15 Francisco, the paralegal, on getting these letters out, and 16 then the next three pages after the transmittal letter were 17 three different affirmations and they were -- the only 18 difference I believe is the name of the attorney is different 19 in each one. So three different attorneys had a form to sign, 20 and the form speaks for itself, but it summarizes that they 21 understand the rules and they promise to obey them. And then 22 after the three different attorneys' affirmations was the 23 notification of special administrative measures and that is the 24 document that the Bureau of Prisons would share with the inmate 25 to let the inmate know what the rules were and that is the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2330 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 document that was also attached that the attorneys would say 2 they read and would abide by, and this one is dated December 3 10, '99. 4 As we mentioned before, there were changes made over 5 time. So this is something that would have gone out under Paul 6 Butler's signature and my supervision at that time and then I 7 would have seen it later on when it came back signed. I don't 8 know if I personally read this transmittal letter before it 9 went out. That is not something I wouldn't remember this many 10 years later. But I do remember it came back signed. 11 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, the government offers 12 Government Exhibit 6. 13 MR. TIGAR: No objection, your Honor. 14 THE COURT: All right. Government Exhibit 6 received 15 in evidence. 16 (Government's Exhibit 6 received in evidence) 17 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, may I show on the monitors 18 the contents of Government Exhibit 6 to the jury? 19 THE COURT: Yes. 20 MR. MORVILLO: Is it being displayed for the jury? 21 Q. Mr. Fitzgerald, the first page of this exhibit which is 22 showing on your screen, this a copy of the FedEx air bill? 23 A. Yes. And that shows it went from Paul Butler, who is the 24 Assistant U.S. Attorney in New York, that is his address and 25 his phone number, and it went to Abdeen Jabara, and I think I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2331 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 misspelled his name before, one R, and that address looks 2 familiar and that is his phone number, and Mr. Jabara and 3 Mr. Ramsey Clark I think had the same address. 4 So this is the FedEx air receipt showing that it was 5 sent on April 6, 2000. 6 Q. Can we display the next page. 7 A. And that would be the April 5, 2000 transmittal letter sent 8 to Mr. Jabara and Mr. Clark at one address and Ms. Stewart at 9 another, and then it's self-explanatory that it says that these 10 were extended for another 120 days. Enclosed is a copy of your 11 client's SAM and affirmation acknowledging receipt, and it's 12 signed by Paul Butler. 13 Q. Can we turn to the next page. 14 Is there any way to make it fit the screen? It's a 15 little bit illegible. 16 What is this document that is on the screen now, Mr. 17 Fitzgerald? 18 A. This is the attorney's affirmation I described before and 19 there were three in this packet, one for Mr. Jabara, one for 20 Mr. Clark, one for Ms. Stewart, and that is the document that 21 they would sign as an affirmation, which means an attorney can 22 make a sworn statement without going in front of a notary 23 public to state they read the notification about the SAMs and 24 would abide by that, and then it had a signature line on and a 25 date. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2332 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 Q. And if we can just scroll quickly through the next two 2 attorney affirmations. 3 Can we display the first page of the notification of 4 special administrative measures dated December 10. 5 Directing your attention, Mr. Fitzgerald, to the first 6 line of this document, which indicates that it's pursuant to 28 7 C.F.R. Section 501.3(c) -- 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What is that a reference to? 10 A. C.F.R. stands for Code of Federal Regulations, so 11 regulations are published and they sort of announce to the 12 world what procedures the government is following and so 28 13 means Title 28. If you look at the Code of Federal 14 Regulations, it has different titles, and section 501.3(c) is 15 the provision enacted and became effective in the spring of '96 16 that says if the Attorney General makes certain findings the 17 Attorney General can decide to impose these measures and here 18 is what the Attorney General has to do. 19 So that is what it meant by pursuant to that 20 particular regulation. 21 Q. And the line just under that reads "inmate Sheikh Omar 22 Abdel Rahman," and that is an indication that this is the 23 special administrative measures for that inmate? 24 A. Yes, specific to him. 25 Q. Directing your attention to paragraph numbered 3 on this SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2333 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 page, could you read that for the record? 2 A. Sure, paragraph 3, "Inmate communications prohibitions - 3 The inmate is limited, within BOP reasonable efforts and 4 existing confinement conditions, from having contact with other 5 inmates and others (except as noted in this document) that 6 could reasonably foreseeably result in the inmate communicating 7 information (sending or receiving) that could circumvent the 8 SAM's intent or significantly limiting the inmate's ability to 9 communicate (send or receive) terrorist information." 10 A -- there is only an A, no B. 11 A. The inmate is prohibited from passing or receiving 12 any written or recorded communications to or from any other 13 inmate, visitor, attorney, or anyone else except as outlined 14 and allowed by this document. 15 Q. Can we display the next page. 16 Directing your attention to paragraph 4 -- 17 A. Would you like to me to read it. 18 Q. Yes, please. 19 A. "Attorney's affirmation of receipt of the SAM restrictions 20 document." 21 I won't read the footnote defining attorney unless you 22 want me to. 23 The text says, "The inmates attorney -- individually 24 by each if more than one -- must sign an affirmation 25 acknowledging receipt of a SAM restrictions document. The SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2334 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 federal government expects that the attorney, the attorney's 2 staff, and anyone else at the behest of, or acting on the 3 behalf of, the attorney, will fully abide by the SAM outlined 4 in this document." 5 That expectation is set forth in the SAM restrictions 6 document. And then there is A, B and C. 7 Shall I read those? 8 Q. Yes, please. 9 A. "A" says, the USA/SDNY -- standing for the U.S. Attorney, 10 Southern District of New York -- shall present or forward the 11 "attorney affirmation of receipt of the SAM restrictions 12 document" to the inmate's attorney. 13 B. After initiation of SAM and prior to the inmate's 14 attorney being permitted to have attorney-client privileged 15 contact with the inmate, the inmate's attorney shall execute 16 the attorney affirmation of receipt of the SAM restrictions 17 document and return the original to the USA/SDNY. 18 1. Little one, if the attorney refuses to sign the 19 SAM acknowledgement document, then the attorney's refusal to 20 sign must be noted on the document. 21 2. Once the SAM acknowledgement document has been 22 signed by the attorney, the SAM will not preclude the attorney 23 from communicating with his/her client as outlined herein, or 24 as otherwise dictated by BOP, standing for Bureau of Prisons. 25 C. The USA/SDNY shall maintain the original of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2335 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 SAM acknowledgement document and forward a copy of the signed 2 document to OEO in Washington, D.C. 3 OEO is that group I mentioned before standing for 4 Office of Enforcement Operations, and they are the ones that 5 handle things at headquarters in that regard. 6 Q. Just so it's clear, Mr. Fitzgerald, the SAM acknowledgement 7 document, is that the affirmation? 8 A. Yes, the three pages on top that we looked at earlier. 9 Q. Did the special administrative measures contain any 10 prohibition or limitation on Abdel Rahman's ability to 11 communicate with the media? 12 A. Absolutely. 13 Q. Do you know where in this document that is? 14 A. It might be the last paragraph but I know it was treated as 15 a separate paragraph. I would say this: It was treated 16 indirectly in that the inmate was not supposed to pass messages 17 out of prison to anyone whether by visits, by phone calls or by 18 mail. So all of those would apply to the media just like they 19 would everyone else, but there was also a separate paragraph, 20 paragraph 9 on page 8. 21 Q. Can we display page 8, please. 22 Can you read that into the record, Mr. Fitzgerald? 23 A. Sure. 24 "Communications with news media. 25 "The inmate will not be permitted to talk with, meet SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2336 46NSSAM5 Fitzgerald - direct 1 with, correspond with, or otherwise communicate with any 2 member, or representative, of the news media, in person, by 3 telephone, by furnishing a recorded message, through the mails, 4 through his attorneys, or otherwise." 5 (Continued on next page) 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2337 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 Q. Incidentally, Mr. Fitzgerald, when you testified earlier 2 about the Southern District of New York and the U.S. Attorney's 3 Office needing to approve translators, was that to approve 4 translators for its Bureau of Prisons, or for the inmates' 5 attorneys to use? 6 A. The inmates' attorneys to use. Obviously, the Bureau of 7 Prisons would decide their own hiring decisions. If the person 8 wanted to participate in the phone call or gain access to the 9 Bureau of Prisons, the information about who the person was and 10 identifying information was supposed to be provided in advance, 11 and I believe, independent of the Bureau of Prisons, the FBI 12 and the U.S. Attorney's Office would have to approve them 13 before that would be allowed to proceed. 14 MR. MORVILLO: May I approach again, your Honor? 15 THE COURT: Yes. 16 Q. Mr. Fitzgerald, I've handed you what has been marked for 17 identification as Government Exhibit 7. Can you please take a 18 look at that and let me know if you recognize it? 19 A. Yes, I do. 20 Q. What is that document? 21 A. That is the attorney's affirmation signed by Lynne Stewart, 22 dated May 16, 2000, which would correspond to the page that we 23 saw earlier, the attorney's affirmation that was mailed out 24 April 2000 and actually had a date typed down below, April 25 2000, without the date filled in. And, apparently, when SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2338 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 Ms. Stewart signed it it was in May, so she crossed out April 2 and wrote May 16, and then signed it Lynne Stewart and this 3 appears to be a original signature because it is blue ink on a 4 black document. 5 And then behind it -- I should say, Government Exhibit 6 7 is a two-page document. Behind it is a transmittal letter 7 from Lynne Stewart on Lynne Stewart's stationery dated May 26, 8 2000, addressed to the same Paul Butler who sent out the blank 9 form, signed by Lynne Stewart; but from the way the signature 10 looks, it could be a stamp signature. It just has one 11 sentence. It is a transmittal letter. 12 MR. MORVILLO: The government would offer Government 13 Exhibit 7 at this time. 14 MR. TIGAR: No objection, your Honor. 15 THE COURT: Government Exhibit 7 received in evidence. 16 (Government's Exhibit 7 received in evidence) 17 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, may I display it to the 18 jury? 19 THE COURT: Yes. 20 MR. MORVILLO: Ms. Griffith may we blow up the first 21 paragraph on the top, including -- thank you. 22 Q. Mr. Fitzgerald can you read this document into the record? 23 A. It says under attorney's affirmation, Lynne Stewart, 24 pursuant to 28 U.S.C. Section 1746 -- 25 Q. Let me just stop you there. What's does 28 U.S.C. Section SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2339 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 1746 mean? 2 A. It is Title 28 of the United States Code, Section 1746, 3 that says that an attorney doesn't have to go before a notary 4 public to swear something. An attorney can swear to a document 5 as an attorney and it counts as if it was a sworn affidavit 6 under oath before a notary public. And so many times lawyers 7 will file something with the Court and they will use that 8 statute just so they can sign it without going down and finding 9 one of those stamps and doing a notary thing. 10 So it says: Lynne Stewart, pursuant to 28 U.S.C. 11 Section 1746, hereby affirms under the penalties of perjury the 12 truth of the following: 13 1. I am counsel of record for inmate Omar Abdel 14 Rahman -- then it refers to his U.S. Marshal's service number. 15 I won't read it. That's just the designation -- and have read 16 the "notification of Special Administrative Measures" for 17 inmate Omar Abdel Rahman, dated December 10, 2000 and 18 consisting of eight pages there. 19 Q. December 10, 2000, is that the correct date for the 20 notification of Special Administrative Measures? 21 A. No. The ones that have been in Government Exhibit 6 that 22 had been sent out were dated December 10, 1999. Obviously, 23 Mr. Butler sent it in April 2000. Ms. Stewart mailed it back 24 in May 2000. December 2000 hasn't happened yet, so that's a 25 typo. It should be December 10, 1999. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2340 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 Then continuing it says: I understand the 2 restrictions contained in that document and agree to abide by 3 its terms, including the fact that I will not patch any calls 4 by inmate Abdel Rahman through to third parties (or otherwise 5 transfer such calls), nor will I allow third persons (other 6 than cleared translators who will be present in my office with 7 me or my cocounsel) to participate in the conversations. I 8 have also instructed the staff in my office that such staff are 9 not to patch any calls by inmate Abdel Rahman through to third 10 parties (or otherwise transfer such calls), nor will such staff 11 allow third persons (other than cleared translators who will be 12 present in my office with me or my cocounsel) to participate in 13 the conversations. I also agree that I will not record any 14 conversations with inmate Abdel Rahman or allow any member of 15 my office or staff to do so. 16 Q. Let me just stop you there for a second. 17 MR. MORVILLO: Can we display for the jury the second 18 half of the document: 19 A. Paragraph 2: I also understand that during any visits to 20 inmate Abdel Rahman at any prison facilities, I shall again 21 employ only cleared translators/interpreters and shall not 22 leave such translator/interpreter alone with inmate Abdel 23 Rahman. Moreover, I shall only be accompanied by translators 24 for the purpose of communicating with inmate Abdel Rahman 25 concerning legal matters. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2341 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 Paragraph 3: I further understand that neither I nor 2 any member of my office shall forward any mail received from 3 inmate Abdel Rahman to a third person. Nor shall I use my 4 meetings, correspondence, or phone calls with Abdel Rahman to 5 pass messages between third parties (including, but not limited 6 to, the media) and Abdel Rahman. 7 4: I understand that the Bureau of Prisons is relying 8 upon my sworn representations as a member of the bar in this 9 affidavit in affording inmate Abdel Rahman the opportunity to 10 meet and/or speak and/or correspond with me and my office and 11 that any violation of these understandings could, among other 12 things, result in further limitation (or even elimination) of 13 inmate Abdel Rahman's ability to contact me or my office. 14 Signed Lynne Stewart, and April is crossed out and 15 handwritten May 16, 2000, New York, New York. 16 Q. Directing your attention, Mr. Fitzgerald, to June of 2000, 17 did there come a time when you read press reports that Sheikh 18 Abdel Rahman had issued a statement from jail? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. What is your recollection as to what was recorded in the 21 press about Sheikh Abdul Rahman's statement? 22 A. I recall -- 23 MR. TIGAR: Objection, your Honor. Whatever the press 24 reports were, they speak for themselves. 25 THE COURT: Overruled on that basis. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2342 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 Ladies and gentlemen, any reference to the press 2 reports is not being introduced for the truth of anything that 3 was reported in the press but rather for its -- I take it is 4 not being offered for its truth? 5 MR. MORVILLO: That's correct, at this time, your 6 Honor. 7 THE COURT: But rather for its effect on this witness 8 and anything that this witness did. This is a good time for me 9 to just explain to you very briefly the concept of what's known 10 as hearsay. 11 The concept of hearsay is a principle of evidence. It 12 says that you are entitled to have witnesses come here and 13 testify under oath and to receive evidence in court and to 14 assess that evidence for its truth. That's why you look at 15 witnesses, assess their credibility. 16 Sometimes witnesses are allowed to testify about 17 something that was said or published outside of court. Now, 18 what was said or published outside of court, you can't assess 19 the credibility of that. You can't assess whether it was true 20 or not true, whether the person who perceived it had the 21 correct perception and whether the person was telling the 22 truth. And that's essentially why we have rules against that 23 sort of thing, rules against what is called hearsay. 24 On the other hand, sometimes what is said out of court 25 is allowed to be admitted because it falls within an exception SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2343 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 to the hearsay rule and there are many exceptions to the 2 hearsay rule. And I rule on all rules of evidence, so you 3 don't have to worry about that. 4 Other times what's said outside of court may have 5 significance, irrespective of whether it was true or not true. 6 For example, if something is said and someone acts on the basis 7 of that, irrespective of whether it was true or not true, 8 someone heard something, it affected their state of mind, 9 someone heard something, they did something. And so sometimes 10 when a matter is being offered not for the truth of what was 11 said or published outside of court, it will still come into 12 evidence, but I'll give you an instruction; namely, that you 13 can't consider it for the truth of what was said, but rather 14 simply for a fact that something was said or published so that 15 you can assess what the effect was on a witness who is 16 testifying, how it affects what the witness did, how it affects 17 what was in the witness's mind, or for any one of a number of 18 reasons. 19 That's why when there was a question asked about 20 whether this witness read something I said that the witness 21 could testify about the fact that the witness read something, 22 not for the truth of what was published, because you don't know 23 whether something that was published in the press was true or 24 not true, but rather simply for the fact that the witness read 25 something and then did something as a result of that. And SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2344 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 that's why I limited this testimony to the fact that the 2 witness saw something and then did something. What the witness 3 saw or read you can't consider for the truth, but simply that 4 the witness saw something and then did something. So what the 5 witness saw or read is not admitted for the truth of that, but 6 simply for the fact that he saw something and then did 7 something. 8 You may proceed. 9 MR. MORVILLO: Thank you. 10 A. I recall reading a series of article in June 2000 that 11 spanned really a handful of days, maybe a week, and that 12 concerned the withdrawal of a support of a cease fire by Sheikh 13 Omar Abdul Rahman. I had known that a cease fire had been in 14 effect between the Islamic Group since some time in 1997. And 15 then in June 2000, a published report appeared which stated 16 that Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman withdrew his support for the 17 cease fire and the statement which appeared in the print said 18 that the statement came through Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman's 19 attorney, Lynne Stewart, that she had read the statement by 20 telephone from her office in New York to I believe it was 21 Reuters, maybe even Reuters in London. 22 It also stated, quoted her -- I don't know whether she 23 said it or not -- it quoted her as saying that she had gotten 24 the statement in the visit to the prison that had occurred some 25 weeks before and that she held the statement for a couple of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2345 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 weeks thinking how to release it. In the end, she expected she 2 might be barred from visiting the prison as a result of what 3 she did. In addition, there were other press reports 4 indicating that a man by the name of Rifa'i Ahmad Taha Musa, 5 who is an Islamic Group leader, said, well, I've seen this 6 instruction from Omar Abdel Rahman, so the Islamic Group will 7 be reconsidering its position on the cease fire. 8 In addition, another press report quoted a fellow by 9 the name of Muntasir Al Zayyat, who is an attorney in Egypt who 10 often makes public statements on behalf of the Islamic Group, 11 and he said that: Wait a minute, we are not so clear that Omar 12 Abdel Rahman said he was withdrawing his support for the cease 13 fire and this needs to be clarified. And I read another press 14 report that indicated apparently that Omar Abdel Rahman had 15 clarified that, yes, indeed he had issued a statement 16 withdrawing his support for the cease fire, but he said in the 17 end, I withdraw the support for the cease fire, but the 18 decision is what people should do -- what the group should do 19 is up to them. 20 So that series of articles I think was over the course 21 of a handful of days, maybe a week, indicating the release of 22 the statement, response from one leader, questioned by Mr. Al 23 Zayyat and a clarification. 24 Q. You testified that you believed that the cease fire was 25 initiated some time in 1997? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2346 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Are you aware of any press reports relating to Abdel 3 Rahman's support of the cease fire at around that time? 4 A. Yes. I believe a statement had been issued somehow within 5 the jail -- 6 MR. TIGAR: Excuse me, your Honor. It's the same 7 limiting instruction with respect to the earlier press reports, 8 please? 9 THE COURT: Oh, yes. 10 The press reports, ladies and gentlemen, are not 11 received for the truth because you have no way of determining 12 what the reporter writes in a newspaper is in fact accurate or 13 not accurate. And the press report is being admitted solely 14 for the effect, if any, that it has on what this witness did. 15 So, again, I instruct you that you cannot consider it for the 16 truth of what appears in the newspapers. 17 A. I had read in the newspapers that Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman 18 from his jail had supported the cease fire prior to 2000, going 19 back to 1997 some time. 20 Q. And now directing your attention back to June of 2000, were 21 you concerned after reading these articles about the effect 22 that Abdel Rahman's statement could have on the Islamic Group? 23 A. Absolutely. 24 Q. What were those concerns? 25 A. I was concerned that a person who was a leader of a group SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2347 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 and viewed as a religious figure, and who by his own account 2 says I must condemn what is wrong and urge what is right, when 3 he withdraws his support for the cease fire, which means he 4 withdraws his support for the obligation of people not to be 5 violent and kill people, that they may go forward, end the 6 cease fire and the violence would start again. That was 7 absolutely my concern. 8 Q. What did you do upon learning about the press reports which 9 indicated that Sheikh Abdul Rahman had withdrawn his support 10 for the cease fire? 11 A. I had planned to do something until I was told to have a 12 meeting. My plan was for the very reason that I didn't know if 13 the press reports were true or not, was to discuss whether or 14 not I should subpoena the toll records of Ms. Stewart's law 15 firm. And by subpoena, it means a document from a grand jury 16 that tells the phone company, can you get the phone bills. 17 And I was going to get the phone bills to see if in 18 fact she made a call to Reuters during the time frame when this 19 press report says she called Reuters. My recollection was that 20 the press statement said that she called from New York to the 21 Reuters office in London, which I think would be real easy to 22 find the number for Reuters. My plan then was, if it 23 corroborated that there was a telephone call from New York to 24 Reuters that we should consider whether or not if she read a 25 statement that statement might exist. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2348 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 My own belief -- I'm not saying right or wrong -- was 2 that if this violated her obligations that this might be 3 evidence of a crime. I would need the Department of Justice 4 approval before we ever did a search warrant on an attorney's 5 office. I may have needed -- I forget the rules on whether I 6 need approval to get toll records. So I started to talk people 7 whether the appropriate thing to do was to verify if this thing 8 was true, look at the phone bills, if there was a call to 9 Reuters, what do we do with the next step. I made known my 10 intention and I was contacted and told, stand down, we needed 11 to have a meeting -- 12 MR. TIGAR: Object to what he was told. 13 THE COURT: Sustained. 14 A. I stopped. Sorry. 15 Q. Did you subpoena Ms. Stewart's toll records? 16 A. I don't believe I did. 17 Q. Why not? 18 A. Because I was -- I had a meeting and I was told what else 19 was going on. 20 MR. TIGAR: Excuse me, your Honor. I object to what 21 he was told. 22 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, we are offering not for the 23 truth, but for the effect on Mr. Fitzgerald. 24 THE COURT: He has already told us he stopped, had a 25 meeting, he was told something, and then he stopped. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2349 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 MR. MORVILLO: Yes. And I would like to ask 2 Mr. Fitzgerald what he was told at that meeting in general 3 terms, what he learned. 4 THE COURT: Relevance? 5 MR. MORVILLO: It affects the steps that he took after 6 the meeting, instructs what he did -- 7 MR. TIGAR: Excuse me, your Honor. This is an area of 8 great sensitivity, I believe, with respect to those. If we are 9 to be heard at length I would request to be heard out of the 10 presence of the jury. 11 THE COURT: Can you move on to something else and we 12 will come back to it when I take the break with the jury? 13 Q. Did there come a time when you sent a letter to Lynne 14 Stewart? 15 A. Yes. 16 MR. MORVILLO: May I approach, your Honor? 17 THE COURT: Yes. 18 Q. Mr. Fitzgerald, I've handed you what's been marked for 19 identification as Government Exhibit 9. Do you recognize this 20 document? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. What certificate? 23 A. That's a letter I wrote and signed, dated August 3, 2000, 24 from me directly to Lynne Stewart, and it also includes a 25 revised attorney's affirmation and also includes the same SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2350 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 December 10, 1999 notification of Special Administrative 2 Measures, and, in addition, it encloses copies of the news 3 articles I was just describing indicating what the press 4 reports were concerning the statements allegedly made to the 5 media. 6 Q. Do you know if this letter was actually sent? 7 A. I believe it was. It is signed by me. There was an 8 earlier draft that I think wasn't sent. This one I think was. 9 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, the government offers 10 Government Exhibit 9. 11 MR. TIGAR: No objection, your Honor, with the same 12 understanding with respect to the newspaper articles, that they 13 are not offered for the truth. On that basis, we have no 14 objection. 15 THE COURT: Government Exhibit 9 received in evidence. 16 (Government's Exhibit 9 received in evidence) 17 THE COURT: And not for the truth of the newspaper 18 articles, which are included. 19 MR. MORVILLO: Can I publish this letter to the jury, 20 your Honor? 21 THE COURT: Yes. 22 Ladies and gentlemen, this is a convenient time for me 23 to tell you something else about trial procedures. In the 24 course of the trial I explain things from time to time. The 25 lawyer just used the word publish. And you see various kinds SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2351 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 of technology around the courtroom. Before any exhibit can be 2 shown to the jury it must be received in evidence. So when the 3 parties begin to talk about documents, they are shown on 4 various screens to the lawyers and to the witness and to me as 5 the Court, but they are not yet shown to you until they are 6 received in evidence. 7 Once a document is received in evidence, it then can 8 be shown to the jury and sometimes that's referred to as 9 published to the jury, and a document can be published to the 10 jury in any one of a number of ways. It can be put on the 11 screen, it can be put on any of these screens so that you can 12 read it. It can be physically handed to you or copies of it 13 can be made and distributed to you. Or it can be blown up on a 14 big chart and shown to you that way. All of those are ways of 15 publishing or showing you a document that has been received in 16 evidence. 17 MR. MORVILLO: May I continue, your Honor? 18 THE COURT: Yes. 19 Q. Could you read your letter to the jury, Mr. Fitzgerald. 20 A. Sure. It is dated August 3, 2000. It is addressed to Ms. 21 Stewart. 22 It says: Dear Ms. Stewart, several recent press 23 articles have been brought to my attention which appear to 24 indicate that in or about June of this year you visited Omar 25 Abdel Rahman at the Federal Medical Center in Rochester, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2352 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 Minnesota, and thereafter released a statement (or statements) 2 of inmate Abdel Rahman in violation of the Special 3 Administrative Measures imposed upon him. 4 Q. Let me just stop you there, Mr. Fitzgerald. You testified 5 earlier that he had originally been designated to Springfield, 6 Missouri? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Do you know when he was sent to Rochester, Minnesota? 9 A. I know he was, but I couldn't tell you the date. Obviously 10 before this date, but I don't know when. Then it says: I 11 enclose copies of those articles as well as a copy of your 12 affirmation indicating your agreement to abide by those 13 conditions. Suffice it to say that the government is extremely 14 concerned that violations of the Special Administrative 15 Measures by persons given access to inmate Abdel Rahman can 16 lead to loss of life in the United States or abroad. As you 17 are aware, Abdel Rahman was convicted at trial of various 18 terrorism offenses, including soliciting crimes of violence. 19 As you are also no doubt aware, terrorist actions have been 20 carried out in Abdel Rahman's name subsequent to his 21 conviction, including the killing of approximately 60 tourists 22 in Luxor, Egypt in November 1997 and the kidnapping of tourists 23 in the Philippines in the spring of 2000 (copies of several 24 press articles concerning these events are enclosed) 25 Q. Let me stop you there again, Mr. Fitzgerald. Are copies of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2353 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 those articles enclosed with this letter? 2 A. Yes. Except, I think, I refer to two events, one involving 3 Luxor and one involving the Philippines. I think the articles 4 attached here include descriptions of the news articles about 5 the cease fire, and I think they include in this set reference 6 to what happened in -- I'd have to look at the July -- I think 7 the other letter which looked like a draft had those events 8 attached to it, and so I can't sit here and tell you today 9 which ones were attached to this letter. There is a letter 10 almost identical, dated July 28, that has my signature. I saw 11 last night that it has my original blue ink signature, so I 12 don't know if we sent two letters. My better guess is we 13 corrected the letter and sent the second one with August 3, 14 2000 and the attachments include all the discussion of the 15 statements about the cease fire, but this set does not have the 16 Philippines or Luxor articles. I think they were attached to 17 the other one. So I am not sure. 18 Continuing on after the parenthesis, it says: 19 Moreover, the Islamic Group with which Abdel Rahman is 20 affiliated has been designated a foreign terrorist organization 21 of the United States. 22 Q. What do you mean, has been officially designated as a 23 foreign terrorist organization? 24 A. I think it is the State Department, Secretary of State -- 25 not the Department of Justice -- can designate a group as a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2354 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 foreign terrorist organization and the treasury can designate. 2 And it means that you're not allowed to donate or assist that 3 group if they are officially designated, and some time after 4 the trial the government had designated the Islamic Group as a 5 foreign terrorist organization. And there is a list that's 6 published in that CFR, Code of Federal Regulations, that says 7 these groups are officially designated foreign terrorist 8 groups, so you shouldn't give money to them or support them. 9 The next paragraph says: The intent of the Special 10 Administrative Measures is to deprive Abdel Rahman, convicted 11 of terrorism offenses, of communication facilities and 12 equipment. Abdel Rahman has been afforded a right to meet with 13 counsel which should not be abused to allow Abdel Rahman to 14 passes messages which, simply put, can get people killed and 15 get buildings blown up. 16 This office is recommending to the office of 17 Enforcement Operations of the Department of Justice that you 18 must execute an amended affirmation recognizing the severity of 19 the consequences of a violation of a violation of the Special 20 Administrative Measures before any more legal visits can even 21 be contemplated. I enclose such an affirmation. 22 Then it is signed by me with copies to the warden in 23 Rochester, to an attorney at the prison in Rochester, and to 24 the fellow Michael Brave of the Office of Enforcement 25 Operations, who is working on this. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2355 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 And then enclosed besides the articles and besides the 2 notice of Special Administrative Measures going back to 3 December 10, 1999 was a revised affirmation that included 4 additional language beyond what had been signed in May of 2000. 5 Q. Incidentally, Mr. Fitzgerald, who drafted the attorney 6 affirmations? 7 A. I did. This one in particular or all of them? 8 Q. This one in particular and also the one that's attached as 9 Government Exhibit 7. 10 A. My assumption is, the way things were working, since these 11 were new and I was the one that suggested the Special 12 Administrative Measures that I took the first draft at suggests 13 what the affirmation should say. It may be that what I wrote 14 became the first affirmation. It could be that people in 15 Washington edited it. I wouldn't remember that. But I played 16 a significant role in the first draft. I drafted the revised 17 one to add new language to it. 18 And then later on defense counsel, I think Mr. Clark 19 and Mr. Jabarra, wanted to change the language in ways that 20 they felt more comfortable with, and I agreed with their 21 suggestions and incorporated their language into the 22 affirmations. And one other time they wanted to reserve some 23 rights, so I suggested they had an issue about whether they 24 would sign it, whether they should type something at the bottom 25 to make clear that they weren't waiving certain rights. So I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2356 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 think I was the principal person drafting these documents. 2 Someone in Washington could have made changes. And at some 3 point some defense counsel suggested changes that I agreed to. 4 Q. Directing your attention to the second page of the attorney 5 affirmation, in particular, paragraph 4. 6 A. Okay. 7 Q. Is this paragraph entirely new or partially new from the 8 prior version? 9 A. It is -- certainly, a lot of it is new. I think the entire 10 thing may be new. No. If you -- I'm looking myself at the old 11 one. There was five lines in the old paragraph 4 and now there 12 is a lot more. So it was an expanded paragraph 4 that added 13 more traditional language to what had been signed for, but 14 there was a paragraph 4 before that made the same point. 15 Q. Starting with the second full sentence in that paragraph. 16 It starts: I further. 17 A. In addition to what's said before it, the quote says: I 18 further specifically understand that Abdel Rahman has been 19 convicted of terrorism offenses, including soliciting crimes of 20 violence, and that terrorist actions have been carried out in 21 his name subsequent to his conviction, including the killing of 22 approximately 60 tourists in Luxor, Egypt in November 1997, and 23 the kidnapping of tourists in the Philippines in the spring of 24 2000. Moreover, the Islamic Group with which Abdel Rahman is 25 affiliated has been designated a foreign terrorist organization SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2357 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 by the Secretary of State. I thus understand that a violation 2 of the Special Administrative Measures including, but not 3 limited to, dissemination of messages on behalf of Abdel Rahman 4 can result in violence to persons or property here in the 5 United States or overseas. I specifically understand that the 6 intent of the Special Administrative Measures is to deprive 7 Abdel Rahman, convicted of terrorism offenses, of communication 8 facilities and equipment, and that his opportunity to consult 9 with counsel is not to be converted into an opportunity to use 10 communication equipment and facilities for any purpose other 11 than legal consultation. 12 And I definitely added that language. That's mostly 13 out of the letter I just read. I put that language in there. 14 Q. The next portion of this packet of material in Government 15 Exhibit 9, is that the same set of SAMs, Special Administrative 16 Measures, that you read before? 17 A. Yes, dated December 10, 1999. 18 Q. Directing your attention to the attached news articles, 19 were these the news articles that you were referring to 20 previously when you said you had seen reports? 21 A. Yes. Let me just correct that. I saw reports and I think 22 I saw the reports in June of 2000. I know I saw the reports 23 prior to June 19, 2000, definitely. And then these are 24 attached to a letter dated August 2000. Whether they were 25 similar reports I saw or not, when we sent the letter out we SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2358 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 might have printed new ones. A lot of reports were very 2 similar. These might not be the identical ones I read at the 3 time, but they were immediate reports basically saying the same 4 thing. 5 Q. Could you read this article to the jury, Mr. Fitzgerald? 6 A. Yes. The first one is dated -- 7 MR. TIGAR: Excuse me, I object to that. 8 THE COURT: It is in evidence, so it can be read to 9 the jury. 10 But, again, ladies and gentlemen, a newspaper article 11 is not being offered for the truth but, rather, for its effect 12 on the people. So it is for its effect on Mr. Fitzgerald and 13 on anyone who received the letter, not for the truth, but for 14 why people took action or any effect it may have had on 15 anyone's state of mind. 16 Again, what is written in a newspaper article is not 17 independent evidence of the truth of what's in that newspaper 18 article because a newspaper article is a statement by a 19 reporter out of court about what happened, and you don't have 20 the reporter here to testify about that. That's why newspaper 21 articles in and of themselves are not received for the truth. 22 They are received, if they are received, for other purposes, 23 such as why people did things, having seen the article, or how 24 it affected their state of mind. 25 A. I'll begin reading where it says Cairo, June 14, Reuters. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2359 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 Q. Actually, if you could read the by line. 2 A. It is spiritual chief of Egypt, militants renounces truce, 3 by Esmat Salaheddin. 4 Q. What is the date of this article? 5 A. June 14, 2000. And then reading it says: Cairo, June 14, 6 Reuters. The spiritual leader of Egyptian Moslem militants, 7 whose bloodiest act was the 1997 Luxor massacre, has renounced 8 their truce, his lawyer said on Wednesday: 9 "He is withdrawing his support for the cease fire that 10 currently exists," Lynne Stewart, the main lawyer for Sheikh 11 Omar Abdul Rahman, told Reuters by telephone from New York. 12 The Sheikh is serving a life sentence in the United 13 States for his role in a plot to bomb New York buildings in 14 1993. 15 She read a statement which she said he had issued two 16 weeks ago from his jail cell in Rochester, Minnesota, which his 17 defense team had held while considering how best to release it. 18 Stewart said Sheikh Omar had concluded that the 19 unilateral truce observed by al-Gama'a al-Islamiya (Islamic 20 Group) since the Luxor slaughter of 58 foreign tourists and 21 four Egyptians had brought no advantage to Egypt's biggest 22 militant group. 23 "There is absolutely nothing moving forward," she 24 quoted his statement as saying in Arabic. "The thousands of 25 people who are in prison (in Egypt) are still in prison, the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2360 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 military trials continue. Executions are taking place." 2 Last year, exiled Gama'a leaders endorsed a 1997 cease 3 fire call by their jailed comrades in the shura (consultative) 4 council that sets the group's guidelines. 5 "The people who launched the cease fire have good 6 faith but the Egyptian government has shown no good faith, 7 Sheikh said in the statement. 8 "He wants people not to place hope in the process 9 because nothing is moving forward," Stewart said. 10 Moslem militants in Egypt and abroad say the views of 11 the 61-year-old blind cleric are highly respected by his 12 followers. 13 Exiled Egyptian Islamists say his latest decision may 14 further deepen rift between what are believed to be two camps 15 inside the Gama'a, those who support the cease fire and those 16 who want to continue the armed struggle. 17 Then there is a subheading that says: Leaders said to 18 be ill-treated in jail. 19 Stewart said the Sheikh was completely isolated in 20 jail and was not well treated. 21 "He is held in solitary confinement, but his faith is 22 very very strong," she said. They (U.S. prison authorities) 23 may bar me from visiting him because of this announcement." 24 U.S. officials could not immediately be reached for 25 comment. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2361 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 Stewart said Sheikh Omar's legal defense team visits 2 him every few months and calls him once a week. He is 3 permitted one call a month to his wife in Cairo. 4 The cleric was tried twice in Egypt in the early 1980s 5 but acquitted for lack of evidence. He made his way into the 6 United States in 1990, after obtaining an American visa in 7 Khartoum. 8 About 1,200 people, mainly militants and police, were 9 killed during a 1992-1997 insurgency by Moslem radicals bent on 10 toppling President Hosni Mubarak's pro-Western government and 11 turning Egypt into a purist Islamic state. 12 Egyptian jails hold 12,000 political detainees who 13 have not been charged or tried, the U.S. State Department 14 reported in February. A local human rights group put the 15 figure at 15,000. 16 The Interior Ministry says about 5,000 detainees have 17 been released in the past three years, though human rights 18 activists and Islamists say the number is much lower. 19 Military courts have sentenced about 95 militants to 20 death since 1992, of whom 72 have been executed. Sentences by 21 military courts cannot be appealed under Egypt's emergency laws 22 in force since militants assassinated President Anwar Sadat in 23 1981. 24 Q. Directing you, Mr. Fitzgerald, to the next article in the 25 series. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2362 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. What is the date of that article? 3 A. That's dated Sunday, June 18, 2000, and it is the same by 4 line, Esmat Salaheddin, and again Cairo and Reuters, although 5 dated June 18. 6 Q. Can you read this article to the jury, please. 7 A. It says: Egyptian Moslem militants may end a two-year-old 8 truce in their struggle against President Hosni Mubarak's 9 government, one of their leaders said on Sunday. 10 Refa'i Taha, a leader of Egypt's biggest militant 11 tall, al-Gama'a al-Islamiya, Islamic Group, told Reuters by 12 telephone from an undisclosed location that the group would 13 review its position after its spiritual leader, Sheikh Omar 14 Abdul Rahman, renounced the unilateral cease fire from his U.S. 15 jail cell. 16 "Stopping operations is a human decision that could be 17 cancelled if a majority of the Gama'a finds this is in its 18 interest, especially after the Sheikh's latest instructions, in 19 which he withdrew support for of the initiative," Taha said. 20 A U.S. court gave Sheikh Omar a life sentence in 1995 21 for his part in a plot to bomb New York buildings. 22 His lawyer quoted him last week as renouncing his 23 backing for a unilateral truce observed by Gama'a and other 24 militant groups since six Gama'a gunmen massacred 58 foreign 25 tourists and four Egyptians in Luxor in November 1997. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2363 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 The truce, initially proposed in July 1997, ended a 2 bitter six-year-long struggle that cost more than 1,200 lives 3 without achieving Gama'a's goal of installing a purist Islamic 4 state. 5 Sheikh Omar said the truce had failed, citing 6 continued detentions, military trials and executions of 7 Islamists. 8 There is no doubt that Gama'a leaders will reconsider 9 their position based on the Sheikh's instructions, said Taha, a 10 Gama'a founder thought to be based in Afghanistan. 11 Omar Abdel Rahman is the emir (commander) of the 12 Gama'a and enjoys great respect not only in the Gama'a, but in 13 all Islamic factions, he declared. 14 Islamists in Egypt and abroad say Taha is Gama'a's 15 most influential leader in exile. Other leaders are in prison 16 in Egypt for the 1981 assassination of President Anwar Sadat. 17 Taha said militant groups had know chance to turn 18 themselves into political parties because Mubarak's government 19 would not give fundamentalists a legal political voice. 20 "I have repeatedly said the regime can never let the 21 Islamic trend play an effective political role through 22 recognized parties," he said. "It will not let anyone else 23 share in the power game." 24 Taha cited the rejection of requests by three Islamist 25 parties, al-Wasat, Islah and Sharia, for official recognition SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2364 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 and the recent suspension of the Islamist-oriented labor party 2 only because it enjoyed real popularity and advocated issues 3 that embarrassed the government. 4 Under the heading Islamic revolution it says: 5 Taha said revolution was the only way for Egyptians to 6 get rid of the government and select their own leaders. 7 When the Gama'a announced the halting of its 8 operations, it did not say it would give up its hostile 9 position of opposition to the Egyptian regime. 10 And by conviction, the only way for the Islamic 11 movement to achieve victory is for Islamic factions to unify 12 their position and mobilize the Egyptian people, led by the 13 army, clerics, and university professors, in a revolution that 14 does not stop until the regime is uprooted," he declared. 15 Taha said government harassment of fundamentalists 16 trying to preach their message would force them to take up arms 17 again. He said violence could also come from unknown factions. 18 "As long as the regime continues suppression, 19 detention and torture of preachers, some young men will 20 definitely emerge to save their comrades," he said. They may 21 not be from al-Gama'a. 22 There are other strong groups that have not approved 23 the cease fire, and there are people like Saber (Farahat) and 24 Suleiman Khater, who belonged to no group or organization. 25 Taha was referring to Saber Farahat, who killed nine SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2365 46NMSAT6 Fitzgerald - direct 1 German tourists in Cairo in 1997, and Suleiman Khater, an army 2 conscript who shot dead seven Israeli tourists in Sinai in 3 1985. Farahat was hanged. Khater was found hanged in his jail 4 cell. 5 Taha said Egypt could only gain stability by adopting 6 Sharia (Islamic law), spreading justice, ending the state of 7 emergency and stopping the pursuit and detention of preachers. 8 And the last sentence on the next page: Taha 9 dismissed media speculation about an attempt to remove him from 10 Gama'a's shura (consultative) council, saying the group 11 deliberately kept the identity of its leaders secret. 12 (Continued on next page) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2366 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 Q. Directing your attention to the next article in the series 2 of articles, and with the court's permission I will read this 3 one to give Mr. Fitzgerald's voice a rest. 4 THE COURT: I am sorry? 5 MR. MORVILLO: With the court's permission may I read 6 this article to give Mr. Fitzgerald's voice a rest? 7 THE COURT: No. 8 Q. Mr. Fitzgerald, and -- 9 THE COURT: The same instructions, ladies and 10 gentlemen, with respect to all of the newspaper articles that I 11 have already given. 12 None of this is being received for the truth of 13 anything that is said in the newspaper articles. 14 A. Okay, this one is dated Monday, June 19, 2000, Cairo, 15 Egypt. It says "Lawyer: Imprisoned militant leader calls for 16 reevaluation of group's cease-fire, not its cancellation, by 17 Tarek El-Tablawy. 18 "Cairo, Egypt (Associated Press) - The spiritual 19 leader of Egypt's leading militant group is asking that the 20 group reevaluate its decision to maintain a unilateral 21 cease-fire with the government, a lawyer close to the group 22 said Monday, downplaying reports of a widening rift among the 23 militants. 24 "Recent reports said Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, who is 25 serving a life sentence in the United States for plotting SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2367 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 terrorist attacks against New York monuments, had told his 2 followers that they are free to choose between a cease-fire and 3 armed struggle. 4 "However, lawyer Muntasir al-Zayat said the text of 5 any statement by Abdel Rahman to the imprisoned leaders of 6 al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya, or Islamic Group, "does not include a 7 word . . . on his withdrawal of support for the cease-fire 8 initiative. 9 "The Islamic Group led an insurgency in Egypt that 10 began in 1992 and resulted in the deaths of more than 1200 11 people, mostly militants and police, before a harsh government 12 crackdown in 1998. 13 "Nine top jailed leaders, including Abdel Rahman, 14 approved a cease-fire in 1997 after the massacre of 58 foreign 15 tourists by Islamic Group guerrillas in the southern town of 16 Luxor in November 1997. 17 "In a bid to clear up the controversy, the imprisoned 18 leaders have drafted a letter to Abdel Rahman, asking him to 19 clarify his stand on the cease-fire, said Al-Zayat. 20 "Abdel Rahman's letter, released Wednesday, complained 21 of the government's use of military trials, extrajudicial 22 killings, mass arrests of militants, and said Egypt had failed 23 to release jailed militants. He called on the group's leaders 24 to "reevaluate the policies of the Gama'a," and expressed his 25 support "for those positions that best serve the interest" of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2368 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 the group. 2 "The Islamic Group's jailed leaders claim that the 3 blind cleric was unaware of government behavior since the 4 group's unilateral initiative" -- on the next page -- "and 5 their letter to him notes that the government has stopped the 6 extrajudicial killings, arrests and military trials and has 7 released some 2500 militants. 8 "Al-Zayat said Mustafa Hamza, the group's exiled head 9 of the Shura Council, its top body, said that the council had 10 taken no decision to reverse its position on the cease-fire." 11 Q. Directing your attention to the last in the series of 12 articles dated Friday, June 23, 2000, could you also read that 13 last one into the record, Mr. Fitzgerald? 14 A. Yes. It's from Agence, and I don't know how to say it -- 15 THE COURT: Again, the same instruction, ladies and 16 gentlemen. 17 A. France-Presse, dated Friday, June 23, 2000. 18 "Cairo, June 23 - The spiritual leader of Egypt's 19 largest armed Muslim militant group, the Jamaa Islamiya, says 20 has withdrawn his support for the group's cease-fire. 21 Sheikh Abdel Rahman, who is serving a life term in a 22 U.S. prison, reiterated his position in a statement received 23 here Friday, after some of the group's leaders in Egypt 24 dismissed as inaccurate earlier reports that he had abandoned 25 the path of nonviolence. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2369 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 "I have not annulled (the March 1999 cease-fire), but 2 I have withdrawn my support for it and made my opinion clear," 3 he said in the statement. 4 The call to end violence was first made in July 1997 5 by six Jamaa leaders who were in jail in Egypt, and was backed 6 at the time by Sheikh Omar. 7 But in his latest statement, he accused Egyptian 8 authorities of "brazenly" continuing to commit "scandalous 9 crimes" such as killing innocent people, random imprisonment 10 and attacking people's homes. 11 "I leave it up to my brothers living in Egypt to do as 12 they see fit as they know the situation better than me," he 13 said. 14 Another of Jamaa's leaders, Rifa'i Ahmed Taha -- 15 considered by security officials here as its military leader -- 16 was quoted Monday by an Arabic newspaper as saying the group 17 might still decide to resume armed attacks. 18 But other Jamaa leaders said last week that the group, 19 whose goal was to bring down the Egyptian government and set up 20 an Islamic state, had "not gone back on its position" and the 21 cease-fire was still valid. 22 After the July 1997 call to end violence, the exiled 23 Jamaa leadership did not heed the appeal immediately and in 24 November that year the group claimed responsibility for the 25 massacre of 58 foreign tourists and four Egyptians in the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2370 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 southern city of Luxor. 2 In the months that followed, the group's superior 3 council condemned the massacre and announced it was ending 4 violence. More than 1300 people have died in Muslim militant 5 violence since it erupted here in 1992. 6 Sheikh Omar was sentence to life in prison in 1996 by 7 a U.S. court for his involvement in a bomb attack against New 8 York's World Trade Center three years earlier that skilled six 9 people and injured 1000." 10 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, this would be an 11 appropriate time for a break? 12 THE COURT: All right. 13 Ladies and gentlemen, we will take ten minutes. 14 Please remember my continuing instructions not to talk about 15 the case, keep an open mind. 16 All rise please. 17 (Jury left the courtroom) 18 THE COURT: All right, we will take a break. If the 19 witness can step down and go to whatever you are using for the 20 jury room because -- out that way if you want -- because there 21 were some evidentiary issues you wanted to talk about outside 22 the presence of the witness. 23 Have a seat please. 24 MR. TIGAR: Our particular hearsay concern, your 25 Honor, with respect to this reason for the witness making a SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2371 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 decision is amply reflected in the September 28 hearing when he 2 described a visit that he had from I think the FBI but at any 3 rate people engaged in intelligence operation that was on the 4 other side of the wall and Mr. Morvillo in his opening 5 statement explained to the jury in some detail that there had 6 been this intelligence operation and that that was the reason 7 that the government didn't tabling certain acts that it might 8 otherwise have. So this is not the question of a newspaper 9 article that motivates someone, this was very crucial evidence 10 and that is the reason we were objecting to the hearsay but I 11 didn't want to say enough in the presence of the jury to alert 12 people that this is that issue. 13 THE COURT: Yes, I understand. 14 MR. TIGAR: That is our view, Judge. 15 THE COURT: Mr. Morvillo. 16 MR. MORVILLO: I am sorry, you ask me to respond or 17 are you asking me a question? 18 THE COURT: I am asking you. 19 Let me give you a perspective and then you can 20 respond. 21 I take it that the defense objection is that for the 22 witness to testify that he stopped what he otherwise might have 23 done in terms of a criminal investigation because of a national 24 security investigation is itself not critical to a decision of 25 the issues in the case. In terms of the charges in the case, SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2372 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 why the government did or did not do various things in the 2 course of an investigation doesn't go to whether the charges in 3 the indictment have been proven on the evidence beyond a 4 reasonable doubt. And the concern is that, if I understand it, 5 there is -- that it's not -- that it doesn't go directly to the 6 charges in the indictment and there is a 403 issue with respect 7 to the reason and therefore the hearsay as to what he was told 8 shouldn't come in. 9 Now, on the other hand, if the defendants were to 10 challenge why he didn't proceed and why he had discussions with 11 one of the defendants and didn't explain everything that was 12 going on, then it would become fair rebuttal as to why he did 13 or did not do that. But I don't know if that is something -- 14 that certainly was the thrust of an examination at the last 15 hearing. And of course that is redirect. 16 If that weren't the case, then the question is if 17 there is an objection as to relevance and 403 as to why you 18 didn't pursue the criminal investigation, then the question 19 really is to respond to that. And the other part of that, it 20 seems to me in thinking about it, is I have to look carefully 21 at the documents and the redactions in the documents to answer 22 the question whether such things as who was at that meeting, 23 the details of what was said at that meeting, then become 24 relevant. And I have to carefully explore all of the 25 redactions from the two documents that have been redacted. I SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2373 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 would have thought that if there is an objection as to why he 2 didn't pursue it at the time and that is not going to be 3 pursued from either side, that it's perfectly sufficient to 4 leave it that he had a conversation and he stopped. But that 5 is where I think things are. 6 Why don't you think about it and we will take a 7 five-minute break. 8 MR. MORVILLO: Very well, your Honor. 9 (Recess) 10 (In open court; jury not present) 11 THE COURT: Please be seated all. 12 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, the fact that this case 13 arose from an intelligence investigation is going to come into 14 evidence at some point one way or the other. 15 The fact that this case arose from an intelligence 16 investigation is going to come into evidence at some point one 17 way or another, either through testimony about the court 18 authorization that led to the wiretaps being from the foreign 19 intelligence surveillance court, whether it's from the 20 interpreters who are going to testify as to their job as 21 analysts and interpreters at the FBI and how they were involved 22 in listening to the telephone calls on a daily basis. At some 23 point it is going to be relevant. We think it's highly 24 relevant as a general matter to demonstrate why the government 25 did what it did when it did it. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2374 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 Why the government let Lynne Stewart go back into the 2 prison in July 2001 after this violation is highly relevant to 3 the conduct of the government. The jury will be left to 4 speculate as to government motives, government harm to the 5 government, the materiality of her false statements, her 6 alleged false statements, for a variety of reasons, the fact 7 that she was permitted to go back in in July 2001 is relevant. 8 And one conclusion could be that the government really wasn't 9 harmed all that much because they let her go back in. 10 But the fact is that Mr. Fitzgerald was told by the 11 FBI stand down any criminal investigation because we are 12 conducting an intelligence investigation and we need to 13 continue to gather this intelligence and therefore the benefits 14 that we are gaining from this intelligence investigation 15 outweigh any benefits to a criminal prosecution which can be 16 deferred for a little while. 17 Mr. Paul opened on exactly that fact. He made the 18 argument that in October of 2000 when the fatwah was issued of 19 course the government wasn't concerned that it was going to be 20 carried out because they would have come in and arrested him at 21 that time. But here we are unable to respond to that 22 allegation, that argument that he made in his opening 23 statement. 24 So the government would submit that the very narrow 25 testimony that Mr. Fitzgerald is going to give or would give on SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2375 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 this issue, which would consist of the following: What 2 happened at that meeting? My understanding is that his 3 response would be to the effect of I was told that there was a 4 foreign intelligence investigation under way that related to 5 this series of events in June of 2000, and that a decision was 6 made that the benefits -- the ongoing gathering of intelligence 7 that was occurring -- outweighed any criminal prosecution at 8 that time. That is it. 9 He is going to testify that I was told to stand down, 10 and then he is left in the situation of having to formulate a 11 strategy to respond to the apparent violation of the special 12 administrative measures by Ms. Stewart, so he comes up with 13 this idea of sending a letter to her which cuts her off from 14 Abdel Rahman. It serves the purpose of allaying any 15 possibility that the defendants may have learned of the 16 intelligence investigation as a result of government inaction. 17 In other words, there was a very real concern that if 18 the government did absolutely nothing, that the defendants 19 would believe that while they must be listening to us, they 20 must be figuring out what we are doing, so we should stop and 21 we should find alternative means. Or, on the other hand, if 22 there had been a criminal investigation and a grand jury had 23 been convened, it's quite possible of course that that would 24 have unearthed the intelligence investigation. 25 So the reasons why Mr. Fitzgerald did what he did, the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2376 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 affect that his instructions to stand down by the FBI had on 2 his state of mind and his actions, the government submits, are 3 very relevant to the issues that are before this jury and will 4 certainly avoid any unfair speculation or surmise by the jury 5 as to the reasons why the government did or did not do certain 6 things, and it certainly is an issue that has been injected in 7 to this case on several occasions, most recently in Mr. Paul's 8 opening statement this morning. 9 THE COURT: All right. 10 MR. TIGAR: In his opening statement Mr. Morvillo said 11 that there had been this stand-down, and I don't think he used 12 that word, but he did use the words national security, as I 13 recall. So the government opened that door. 14 Now, at this point the claimed relevance of the FBI's 15 visit to Mr. Fitzgerald is to explain what he should do. For 16 us the concern is not primarily relevance. Certainly we think 17 that that is not relevant to any issue so far in the case, but 18 Mr. Morvillo says that it will be at some point. 19 We, therefore, want to make the following point: When 20 an intelligence investigation, a foreign intelligence 21 investigation, is directed at somebody that paints the T, the 22 terrorism word, on that person. Vague ideas about national 23 security are very significant. What is being proposed is to 24 let Mr. Fitzgerald testify to the hearsay declarations of 25 government employees who told him something. That is what we SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2377 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 object to because not only does it violate the hearsay rule, it 2 denies us the opportunity for cross examination and, more 3 important, what the government is trying to do here, your 4 Honor, is to not have to call those declarants because as soon 5 as it does, they know that we are going to drive right into a 6 CIPA hearing and they don't want to have those problems about 7 producing the Jencks material on those people who said those 8 things. Because in fact, your Honor, if they want to make that 9 an issue, we have seen versions of the Fitzgerald 2000 10 memoranda. In our respectful submission, it was not relevant 11 then to point it out, but it is now. 12 That investigation, so far as Ms. Stewart was 13 concerned, was utterly fictitious. It was based on sloppy 14 intelligence. It was based on wrong assumptions. It was based 15 on conclusion jumping, and therefore the importance of being 16 able to cross examine the declarants could not be overstated. 17 Moreover, and I say this, if what the declarants were 18 doing was reporting to Mr. Fitzgerald in his capacity as a law 19 enforcement officer, then I really do think we are in Crawford 20 country. 21 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor -- 22 MR. RUHNKE: Can I add something for my client's part? 23 MR. MORVILLO: I am sorry. 24 MR. RUHNKE: I don't think it's at all inevitable, and 25 Mr. Morvillo seems to think it is, that the nature of the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2378 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 otherwise lawful intercept will come before the jury. I 2 believe, or I would hope and expect, that if the time comes 3 that it does become relevant your Honor will give an 4 instruction, as you already have, that any intercepted 5 conversations is pursuant to a lawful court order, and that is 6 the end of of it. 7 The jury does not need to know that someone was 8 worried about national security in order to procure these 9 wiretaps. I don't know how it is the fact that the FBI 10 language specialist will testify necessarily implicates that 11 this was a FISA intercept. I see 403 objections if that is put 12 forward by the government. 13 THE COURT: Well, it does appear to me that what the 14 issue with respect to the conversation with the FBI -- and, 15 again, the defendants may on this in their cross examination of 16 Mr. Fitzgerald, but sufficient unto the day he is being asked 17 to testify about the truth of the conclusion that, as Mr. 18 Morvillo put it, the benefits outweighed the costs, and that is 19 a decision which is being made not by Mr. Fitzgerald, according 20 to his testimony, but by others, that he was told to stop 21 because others concluded that the risks to the other 22 investigation were such that they shouldn't be borne, and so he 23 had a meeting with the FBI and was told to stand down from a 24 criminal investigation what he would otherwise have done, grand 25 jury, and that is where it stands and I don't see the relevance SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2379 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 of his going further than that, and it is a hearsay problem 2 with respect to the truth of what he was told about, as Mr. 3 Morvillo puts it, the benefits outweighing the costs. 4 It is not clear to me that it's inevitable because I 5 don't know at this point the degree to which any of the orders 6 authorizing the intercepts would be or could be challenged in 7 the course of this proceeding. They were court ordered. I 8 have passed already in the FISA motion on these issues and the 9 usual instruction is something to the effect that the material 10 pursuant to that was seized was lawfully seized and you 11 shouldn't -- it's not an issue for you, or words to that 12 effect. So it's not clear to me why, unless the defendants 13 raise issues to which this is responsive, that the details of 14 some of this would even be explored, or that extra credentials 15 on behalf of various people would be put before the jury. 16 Again, all depending on what issues are raised by the 17 defendants. 18 Now, Mr. Paul's comment in opening raises an issue. 19 On the other hand, the comment was directed actually towards 20 the 1998 I think fatwah, perhaps the 2000 fatwah. 21 MR. MORVILLO: I think it was directed to the 2000 22 conduct in general, your Honor. 23 THE COURT: It was also an argument that he had been 24 surveilled for 7 years and the difference between the 2000 and 25 2001 is not determinative at this point. Again, it may be as SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2380 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 the case develops that something here warrants a response. 2 Perhaps the something will even be cross examination in which 3 case the answer is redirect, but I don't see a sufficient basis 4 for going beyond what the testimony is at this point. He had a 5 meeting with the FBI and as a result of the meeting he stopped 6 the criminal creation for the reasons that I have explained. 7 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, just so the record is 8 clear, I just want to quote from Mr. Paul's opening statement 9 this morning. He talked in general about the fact that there 10 was no threat or danger to anyone and then said, "Why do I say 11 this? Because the evidence will show that the communications 12 with the sheikh concerning his withdrawal of support for the 13 initiative was in May and June 2000. The conversations 14 regarding the assistant to Atia took place for several months 15 and continued to October 2000 and the fatwah, this fatwah that 16 was issued in October 2000 and yet the government did not 17 arrest my client until April 2002, over 1-1/2 years after the 18 fatwah. You can be sure, ladies and gentlemen, that if the 19 government really suspected or feared something was about to 20 occur, or there was any concern that my client was a real 21 threat to anyone, they would have awaited to arrest him until 22 1-1/2 years later? And you just can't casually sweep this fact 23 under the rug as Mr. Morvillo did yesterday at the very near 24 end of his opening remarks." 25 THE COURT: That would suggest to me that the argument SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2381 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 is still well founded that the person who made the decision 2 that the benefits outweighed the costs is the person who should 3 respond to that and not simply a person who was told to stand 4 down. 5 MR. MORVILLO: The reasons why the decision was made 6 are completely irrelevant. In other words, if the FBI had said 7 to Mr. Fitzgerald we think that Mickey Mouse is the head of the 8 Islamic Group and this investigation is going to figure it out, 9 and he thought that was crazy, that doesn't matter at all. 10 THE COURT: But if that is true, then it should be 11 sufficient that he had a conversation with the FBI and the FBI 12 told him to stand down and the reasons are utterly irrelevant 13 and he stood down. 14 MR. MORVILLO: But what is missing is that there was 15 something else going on, something more important that the 16 government was doing, that it felt it was doing that resulted 17 in inaction on this half. 18 THE COURT: Yes, but that -- 19 MR. MORVILLO: Let's take it in the context of the 20 Count 6 and 7 false statements charge just for a second. 21 The government has to prove that Ms. Stewart's 22 statements in May 2000 were materially false. Without this 23 testimony, without an explanation as to why nothing happened 24 until April of 2002, and in addition to the fact that the jury 25 is going to learn that the government let Ms. Stewart back in SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2382 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 in July 2001, there is the possibility for confusion and 2 speculation by the jury that the false statements, the alleged 3 false statements, in May 2000 were not at all material. The 4 government wasn't that concerned about them because they didn't 5 do anything. They let her back in. And that is at the heart 6 of this case and is a very critical fact that the government 7 needs to prove. 8 MR. RUHNKE: In reply to that, what Mr. Morvillo is 9 simply saying is that if you follow that line of the argument 10 is that the government needs to prove the truth of the reasons 11 why it wasn't pursued, that they then become relevant reasons 12 why it wasn't pursued. But that would require calling the 13 people who actually have the knowledge as to why it wasn't 14 pursued. If, as the government seemed to maintain, it didn't 15 matter really what Mr. Fitzgerald was told and therefore it's 16 not being offered for the truth of it, then where we are is if 17 it doesn't matter, it ought not to be put before the jury, but 18 it carries with it the freight that the jury might not be able 19 to follow the limiting instruction when they are told there was 20 a national security investigation in process and that Mr. 21 Fitzgerald was told that the benefits of that investigation 22 would be compromised by pursuing the criminal investigation at 23 that point. 24 So that I think what Mr. Morvillo has done is even 25 more emphatic, that if that evidence is going to come before SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2383 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 the jury in any form, it certainly should not come through Mr. 2 Fitzgerald and so we continue to object to it. 3 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, the materiality point has 4 nothing to do with what the FBI told Mr. Fitzgerald. It has to 5 do with what effect it had on Mr. Fitzgerald's mind. He was 6 about to do something in connection with this criminal matter 7 and was told to stop and it doesn't matter the reasons why he 8 was told to stop. He was told to stop and so -- 9 THE COURT: And that is in, is it not? 10 MR. MORVILLO: Yes, but we need one more fact, and 11 that is that -- 12 THE COURT: You think about it. I really have ruled 13 at this point and it is true, and I will listen to the rest of 14 the testimony. I will listen to the cross. The more you argue 15 the point as to the criticality, I mean, you ask me to accept 16 on the one hand that the reason doesn't make a difference at 17 all. It could have been a completely frivolous reason. All 18 that matters is he was told to stand down and he did and then, 19 on the other hand, you ask me to accept that the importance of 20 the reason is really relevant because it's the importance of 21 that reason that you should judge why it was that further 22 actions were allowed, and that goes to weighing the reasons. 23 And you can think about it but at this point the testimony is 24 he had a meeting with the FBI and as a result of the meeting he 25 was told -- if my recollection of the evidence is correct at SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2384 46NSSAT7 Fitzgerald - direct 1 this point -- that -- 2 MR. MORVILLO: I am not sure it is. I think that is 3 right but I would have to go back and check. 4 THE COURT: But you should certainly be allowed to -- 5 MR. MORVILLO: Can I at least clarify that point with 6 him? 7 THE COURT: Yes, if it's not already clear that he had 8 a meeting with the FBI, after that meeting with the FBI he did 9 not pursue the criminal investigation, correct? 10 MR. MORVILLO: Correct. 11 THE COURT: Can you establish when the meeting 12 occurred? Unless at this point the defendants open it up 13 further that would be where it is. And you are welcome to talk 14 to Mr. Fitzgerald about that point. By the way, this testimony 15 was supposed to be an hour and we eliminated a lot -- well, we 16 eliminated several minutes in which all of the documents from 17 Abdel Rahman's trial were going to be authenticated and offered 18 and the testimony has gone for about 2 hours and 20 minutes. 19 (Continued on next page) 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2385 46NMSAT8 1 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, we did about ten minutes of 2 testimony this morning with Mr. Fitzgerald before we broke for 3 lunch. We came back at about 2:20, maybe 2:30 when we finally 4 started here and went until about 3:30 -- it has got a little 5 longer than I anticipated. 6 THE COURT: I'm really not attempting to criticize. 7 But it seems to me from where we are that there is a reasonable 8 amount more with Mr. Fitzgerald. And some of it was -- 9 MR. MORVILLO: Certainly, I am not sure how far I can 10 go with him with respect to the conduct that he took, for 11 example, in October of 2001, when he reviewed more FISA tape 12 and made a determination at that point that the intelligence 13 investigation should probably end and a criminal investigation 14 should be pursued. I don't know that that's particularly 15 relevant right now. I really need to consider that issue. 16 I also need to consider whether I can ask 17 Mr. Fitzgerald why he let Ms. Stewart back in in July of 18 2000 -- 2001, why didn't he have her arrested at that time. I 19 think those are fair questions, but they might elicit certain 20 responses that the Court has precluded. I don't know how much 21 more testimony I have to elicit from Mr. Fitzgerald. Whether I 22 use this testimony or not -- let me withdraw that. If he were 23 going to testify about the foreign intelligence nature of the 24 investigation, I anticipate that his testimony would be another 25 15 minutes. So to get around that, I can't imagine that it SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2386 46NMSAT8 1 would be more than another 10 minutes or so, but I do need to 2 assess how much I can do within the scope of the Court's 3 ruling. 4 THE COURT: It is almost 4:30. Did you want to break 5 for the day, or are there areas that you want to pursue with 6 Mr. Fitzgerald while he is still here? We could go for -- with 7 the jury -- it is 4:28 and they wouldn't object, I'm sure, if 8 they were let go at 4:28. It is up to you. 9 MR. MORVILLO: If it is okay with the Court, I would 10 like to stop for the day and try to reassess with 11 Mr. Fitzgerald and reconvene with him on Monday morning, if 12 that's okay with the Court. In the interim we can try and sort 13 through the remainder of his testimony. 14 THE COURT: Sure. 15 One of the things that you have to ask yourself is 16 whether, among other things, the testimony is hearsay or he is 17 the decision maker and if he is the decision maker, why? What 18 is he doing? The problem with the FBI testimony is, he was 19 told to do something and it was being offered for the rationale 20 for why people -- why other people said to do something. 21 MR. MORVILLO: I think the testimony would be that he 22 agreed with the decision at the end of the day, that he 23 participated in the meeting and it was discussed, and he was a 24 member of the decision-making process. But at the end of the 25 day the result was, Mr. Fitzgerald, stand down your criminal SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2387 46NMSAT8 1 investigation. 2 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, may we confer for one minute? 3 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, I think it is a good point 4 to break so we can recess. 5 THE COURT: My office got a phone call from one juror 6 by juror identification number which was the juror who had told 7 my deputy or Mr. Grate that there was this wedding on July the 8 1st, and apparently asking for an answer. I will tell the jury 9 that I understand there is a juror with a commitment on July 10 the 1st who has to make a flight in the afternoon. Certainly, 11 we will break in sufficient time for the juror to make the 12 flight. Whether we meet on July the 1st, I can't tell them 13 yet, but we will wait and see, but certainly the juror can make 14 the plane at 3:00 on July 1. I'll also give them the 15 instruction about telling people close to them what case they 16 are jurors for. 17 Let's bring in the jury. 18 One juror has a graduation tomorrow and has to get out 19 by 4:30. We will certainly break by 4:30. 20 (Jury present) 21 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, as I told you 22 earlier, I use the breaks to deal with various legal issues 23 with the parties and sometimes that takes me more time. And 24 today it taken me until up about the time that you leave for 25 the day, which is 4:30. Rather than continuing with the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2388 46NMSAT8 1 testimony we will break for the day. And I should also tell 2 you that because of scheduling issues we are going to continue 3 with the testimony of Mr. Fitzgerald next week and we will have 4 other matters on tomorrow. It is not uncommon for us to have 5 to make certain changes because of scheduling matters. 6 When I talk about scheduling matters I should also 7 acknowledge that I understand that one of you has a graduation 8 tomorrow afternoon and wants to make sure that we get out at 9 4:30, so we will get out certainly by 4:30 tomorrow. I 10 understand that another of you has a wedding to go to and has 11 to make a 3:00 flight on -- from Newark on July the 1st. And I 12 can tell you that we will certainly break in time for you to 13 make that flight. It is not clear to me whether we will sit on 14 July the 1st. But if we do, the length of time we sit in the 15 morning, we will break in sufficient time so that the juror who 16 has to make a flight at 3:00 can make that flight. 17 Mr. Fletcher also advised me that some jurors had 18 questions about retaining their anonymity vis-a-vis their 19 families and those close to them as a juror in this case. And 20 I've told you that you can tell your families and those close 21 to you that you are a juror in a case, but don't tell them 22 anything else about that, about the case. The reason for 23 that -- and I'll modify that for you. But the reason for that 24 is, you really don't want to get in the situation of having a 25 conversation with anyone about the case. You don't want to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2389 46NMSAT8 1 talk to them about the case and you don't want anyone talking 2 to you about the case. And not telling people what case you're 3 on is one way of assuring that you do that. 4 However, if you believe that you really have to tell 5 your family or those close to you what specific case you're on 6 in order to explain why it is that you are a juror in a long 7 case, you can tell them the name of the case, but please, don't 8 discuss the case with them, don't tell them anything else about 9 the case, and don't have them talk to you about the case. As I 10 say, the reason for this is simply to make sure that you don't 11 discuss the case with anyone and no one discusses the case with 12 you. If someone should attempt to discuss the case with you, 13 obviously, you should tell them to stop. And if someone does 14 discuss the case with you, as I've told you, you report it to 15 Mr. Fletcher. But I just wanted to give you comfort that if 16 you thought that you had to tell those close to you what 17 specific case you were on, you could do that without 18 compromising your anonymity and without violating my order to 19 you. 20 But I reemphasize again, don't talk about the case, 21 don't let anyone talk to you about it, always remember, don't 22 look at or listen to anything about the case. If you see 23 something in the press, just turn away. Always remember to 24 keep an open mind until you have heard all of the evidence, 25 I've instructed you on the law, you've gone to the jury room to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2390 46NMSAT8 1 begin your deliberations. 2 Have a very good evening and I look forward to seeing 3 you tomorrow morning a little before 9:30. 4 All rise, please. 5 Follow Mr. Fletcher to the jury room. 6 (Jury not present) 7 THE COURT: Anything further for me? 8 MR. MORVILLO: Not from the government, your Honor, I 9 don't believe. 10 MR. TIGAR: No, your Honor. 11 THE COURT: I'll see you all tomorrow morning at 9:15. 12 (Adjourned to Thursday, June 24, 2004 at 9:15 a.m.) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 2391 1 INDEX OF EXAMINATION 2 Examination of: Page 3 PATRICK FITZGERALD 4 Direct By Mr. Morvillo . . . . . . . . . . . 2301 5 GOVERNMENT EXHIBITS 6 Exhibit No. Received 7 2050B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2309 8 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2330 9 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2338 10 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2350 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300
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