12 March 2001
Source: Digital file from the Court Reporters Office, Southern District of New York; (212) 805-0300.

This is the transcript of Day 16 of the trial, 12 March 2001.

See other transcripts: http://cryptome.org/usa-v-ubl-dt.htm


                                                                2228



   1   UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
       SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
   2   ------------------------------x

   3   UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

   4              v.                           S(7)98CR1023

   5   USAMA BIN LADEN, et al.,

   6                  Defendants.

   7   ------------------------------x

   8
                                               New York, N.Y.
   9                                           March 12, 2001
                                               9:45 a.m.
  10

  11

  12   Before:

  13                       HON. LEONARD B. SAND,

  14                                           District Judge

  15

  16

  17

  18

  19

  20

  21

  22

  23

  24

  25




                                                                2229



   1                            APPEARANCES

   2   MARY JO WHITE
            United States Attorney for the
   3        Southern District of New York
       BY:  PATRICK FITZGERALD
   4        DAVID KELLEY
            KENNETH KARAS
   5        PAUL BUTLER
            Assistant United States Attorneys
   6

   7   SAM A. SCHMIDT
       JOSHUA DRATEL
   8   KRISTIAN K. LARSEN
            Attorneys for defendant Wadih El Hage
   9
       ANTHONY L. RICCO
  10   EDWARD D. WILFORD
       CARL J. HERMAN
  11   SANDRA A. BABCOCK
            Attorneys for defendant Mohamed Sadeek Odeh
  12
       FREDRICK H. COHN
  13   DAVID P. BAUGH
       LAURA GASIOROWSKI
  14        Attorneys for defendant Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-'Owhali

  15   DAVID STERN
       DAVID RUHNKE
  16        Attorneys for defendant Khalfan Khamis Mohamed

  17

  18            (In open court; jury not present.

  19            THE COURT:  Good morning.  Everybody be seated,

  20   please.  Are there any matters which should be addressed

  21   before bringing in the jury?  Any reason not to bring in the

  22   in the jury?  The witness is here?

  23            MR. KARAS:  Yes, Judge.

  24            THE COURT:  All right.  Let's bring in the jury.

  25            MR. RUHNKE:  Your Honor, there is one question we'd




                                                                2230



   1   like to ask the jury.  There was publicity over the weekend

   2   about another terrorist trial in the State of Washington and

   3   we just ask your Honor if the jury read anything about a trial

   4   in Washington or words to that effect.  It mentioned Bin Laden

   5   and in the interview it says Cole.  There was a lot of

   6   publicity about it over the weekend.  They may not have seen

   7   it as being this case.

   8            THE COURT:  All right.

   9            MR. FITZGERALD:  Your Honor, for purposes of clarity,

  10   that trial is in California because the venue has shifted, but

  11   it involves the State of Washington.

  12            THE COURT:  All right, West Coast.

  13            MR. FITZGERALD:  West of the Hudson.

  14    DONALD SACHTLEBEN, resumed.

  15            (Jury present)

  16            THE COURT:  Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.  I

  17   hope everybody had a pleasant weekend.  Has anybody read or

  18   seen anything in the media about this case?

  19            I'm advised that there has been some coverage in the

  20   media with respect to a case on the West Coast involving

  21   alleged terrorists.  Has anybody read or seen anything about

  22   that?

  23            (No response)

  24            I would ask if you see the word terrorist or

  25   terrorist trial or anything of that sort, regardless of




                                                                2231



   1   whether it's this case or not, please avoid reading it.  There

   2   may be a lot of media attention given to matters allegedly

   3   related to terrorists besides this case.  Please just avoid it

   4   all.

   5            I want to also remind you that I've asked you not to

   6   discuss the case even amongst yourselves.

   7            Agent Sachtleben, the Court reminds that you your

   8   still under oath.  The government may proceed.

   9            MR. KARAS:  Thank you, your Honor.

  10   DIRECT EXAMINATION (continued)

  11   BY MR. KARAS:

  12   Q.  Good morning.

  13   A.  Good morning.

  14   Q.  Now, Agent Sachtleben, you recall describing last week the

  15   process that was in place for the collection of items from the

  16   crime scene near the embassy in Nairobi?

  17   A.  Yes, sir.

  18   Q.  Before those pieces were collected and brought back to the

  19   United States, did you have a chance to review each piece?

  20   A.  Yes, sir, I did.

  21            MR. KARAS:  Your Honor, may I ask that Mr. Sachtleben

  22   be allowed to step down?

  23            THE COURT:  Yes.

  24            (Witness left stand)

  25   Q.  Now, Agent Sachtleben, if you could take a look at the




                                                                2232



   1   pieces collected here on this middle table and begin with

   2   Government Exhibit 830.  If you can tell us what that is?

   3   A.  I recognize this piece here to be a portion of the fence

   4   that was a security fence that was around the United States

   5   embassy in Nairobi.

   6   Q.  Could you point on the model that's marked as Government

   7   Exhibit 800 where that fence is?

   8   A.  The security fence on the model is represented by a,

   9   they've done it on the model here, it's this clear plastic

  10   fence.  You can see that the modelmakers have actually drawn

  11   some black lines on that clear plastic.  The vertical black

  12   lines represent these pieces of the fence.

  13   Q.  And could you describe for us what conclusions you drew

  14   from your analysis of that piece?

  15   A.  Well, when I saw this at the scene in Nairobi or what I

  16   recognized, first of all, was that this piece of metal had

  17   gone through a significant impact by high explosive charge.

  18   Q.  What in particular led to you that conclusion?

  19   A.  Well, first of all, the shape.  As you look at this piece,

  20   this is a fairly heavy piece of metal, and I recognized again

  21   that this is a piece of fence, and I saw that at the, on the

  22   security fence in the areas that were not affected by the

  23   explosion they were nice and straight.

  24            This piece is twisted almost into a corkscrew

  25   fashion.  Then there is also a number of impact marks here




                                                                2233



   1   which I recognize to be what I would call high explosive

   2   effects.

   3   Q.  And is that piece damaged on both sides?

   4   A.  There is some damage on this side of the piece, but mostly

   5   what I see on this side of the piece is where the explosive

   6   effects have actually gone completely through the piece.  So

   7   the vast majority of the damage is on this side, which I

   8   believe was facing the explosion.

   9   Q.  Thank you, Agent Sachtleben.  If you want to put that

  10   piece down.

  11            If you could look at the piece that's marked as

  12   Government Exhibit 833.  Can you tell us what that is?

  13   A.  This is a portion of a what I would refer to as a bollard

  14   or I guess more commonly you think of it as a post.  These

  15   were part of the security perimeter of the embassy in Nairobi.

  16   Q.  Again, if you could use the model and point out where

  17   those bollard posts were?

  18   A.  The posts are these little short black pieces of doweling

  19   that you see around the perimeter here of the embassy.

  20   They're fairly similar to what you see around this courthouse

  21   here out on the street.  They're just maybe about two or three

  22   feet high, made for some fairly heavy metal, and in Nairobi I

  23   believe that these were also filled with concrete to make them

  24   more resistant to say vehicles being driven up on to the

  25   sidewalk around the embassy.




                                                                2234



   1   Q.  What can you tell us about the damage to that piece?

   2   A.  Well, first thing I noticed was again how it had been

   3   almost crushed and flattened.  That again tells me that this

   4   was hit by a high explosive shock wave.  Secondly, I can see

   5   the what I would call here the pitting or cratering.  I think

   6   on Thursday I may have referred to some of the effects from

   7   high explosives.  The hot gases and the hot particles of

   8   unconsumed explosive will strike this at very high rate of

   9   speed, and make these impact marks on the metal.  There is

  10   also some evidence of melting.

  11            The temperature that we would typically see from a

  12   large quantity of high explosives could be as high as five

  13   thousand degrees, and when something like this is very close

  14   to that amount of explosives, when they detonate, you can

  15   actually get a little bit of this melting along the edges

  16   here.

  17   Q.  Now, with respect to the item marked Government Exhibit

  18   838 which I believe is right in front of you there.

  19   A.  Yes, it is.

  20   Q.  If you can tell us what that is?

  21   A.  I recognize this piece to be a fragment, that is a portion

  22   of a pistol slide.  This is, on a pistol this is the portion

  23   that rests along the top and houses the barrel and the

  24   chamber.

  25   Q.  What can you tell us about the damage to that piece?




                                                                2235



   1   A.  Well first of all, it's not intact.  That is there should

   2   be more to it.  So there's almost a half of this pistol slide

   3   that's missing.  Secondly, it's twisted somewhat like this

   4   piece was twisted, and there are a couple of impact marks on

   5   it.  I would say that this piece had been very close to a very

   6   large explosion.

   7            MR. KARAS:  Your Honor, may we share this piece with

   8   the jury?

   9            THE COURT:  Yes.

  10   Q.  If you could just hand it up to Juror No. 1 at the end

  11   there.  Thank you, Agent Sachtleben.

  12            Now, the other pieces that are on this table and for

  13   the record marked as Government Exhibits 829, 831, 832, and

  14   834 through 837, can you just generally tell us what those

  15   pieces are?

  16   A.  Generally what we have on the table here with the

  17   exception of one piece which is Government's 831, these are

  18   portions of the embassy security fence that are similar to the

  19   item that I described previously which is government's 830.

  20   Government's 831 would appear to me to be another portion of

  21   the bollard posts.

  22   Q.  Now, Agent Sachtleben, did you also find that there were

  23   what appeared to be vehicle parts in the vicinity of the

  24   American Embassy?

  25   A.  Yes, I did.




                                                                2236



   1   Q.  And if you could go to the table to your left there, and

   2   if you could begin with Government Exhibit 821.  It should be

   3   on the left part.  Yes.  If you could describe that piece for

   4   us?

   5   A.  Government Exhibit 821 here I recognize this to be the

   6   portion, a portion of a frame of a truck.

   7   Q.  What can you tell us about the damage to that piece?

   8   A.  Well, first of all, this piece is, the frame of a vehicle

   9   is one of the strongest parts of a vehicle from my experience,

  10   and this piece here is almost completely folded over on

  11   itself.  There is quite a bit of corkscrewing or twisting of

  12   the metal.  To me these are all indications that this piece

  13   was extremely close to a very large explosion.

  14   Q.  And with respect to Government Exhibits 816 and 817 if you

  15   could tell us about the damage to those pieces and what they

  16   are?

  17   A.  Okay.  Government's 816 which is this piece here and

  18   Government's 817 which is this piece here I recognize these to

  19   be parts of the chassis of a truck and both of these parts

  20   have been twisted, torn, pitted.  Once again they appear to me

  21   that they were in very close contact with a large quantity of

  22   explosives that detonated.

  23   Q.  If you could take a look at Government Exhibit 815 which I

  24   think is just to the right of where your hand is now, and if

  25   you could tell us what that is?




                                                                2237



   1   A.  Government's 815 is again I recognize this to be

   2   consistent with a portion of a frame of a truck and this piece

   3   here has some of those same damage that I noticed on the other

   4   pieces.

   5   Q.  Are there any markings on that piece?

   6   A.  Yes.  On this piece I noticed that there was some letters

   7   and a number that were stamped into the piece.

   8   Q.  For the record what is stamped in there?

   9   A.  I read the letters B as in Bravo, U as in Union, and the

  10   number 6.

  11            MR. KARAS:  Your Honor, if we could have this piece

  12   published to the jury as well?

  13            THE COURT:  Yes.

  14   Q.  Agent Sachtleben, if you could take a look at Government

  15   Exhibits 822 and 823 and tell us what those are?

  16   A.  Collectively Government Exhibits 822 and 823 I recognize

  17   these to be the fragments of a rear axle from a truck.

  18   Q.  Which piece do you have there in your hand?

  19   A.  I'm currently holding Government's 822.

  20   Q.  Now, with respect to Government Exhibit 823, can you tell

  21   us about the damage to that piece?

  22   A.  Government's 823 when I saw this at the scene in Nairobi,

  23   what I recognized here was a very directional type of damage.

  24   That is, the metal that you see here, this is the axle

  25   portion, that is the part that drives the wheels, and there is




                                                                2238



   1   a housing over it, there is a metal housing that contains like

   2   the gears, that is the differential that turns the axle and

   3   what you can see here is that the metal has actually been

   4   pushed down against this heavy rod here, pushed apart, folded

   5   over and in some cases actually partially melted.

   6            This would indicate to me that an explosive shock

   7   wave had hit this very directly and from a very close

   8   distance.

   9   Q.  From which direction?

  10   A.  From above.

  11   Q.  Thank you.

  12            Now, with respect to the remaining pieces on that

  13   table, and for the record Government Exhibits 818, through

  14   820, 824 through 828, if you could just tell us generally what

  15   those pieces are?

  16   A.  The remaining pieces on this table here are portions of a

  17   truck.  They range from the additional pieces of the chassis

  18   such as Government's 824 which I recognize to be a front axle,

  19   to portions of the engine of a vehicle.

  20            For example, this piece here which is Government's

  21   825, this is a crankshaft which is found inside the engine

  22   block of a vehicle.

  23   Q.  And with respect to Government's 826 if you could tell us

  24   what that is and what the damage to that piece was?

  25   A.  Government's 826 is this piece right here.  I recognize




                                                                2239



   1   this piece to be part of the steering assembly of a vehicle.

   2   It's commonly referred to as the Pitman arm.

   3   Q.  And can you tell us about the damage to that piece?

   4   A.  Well, damage to this piece, first of all, I know that

   5   Pitman arms when they're manufactured are generally straight.

   6   So that's the first thing is that there is definite twist to

   7   this piece.  Second thing is that there is explosive damage,

   8   that is, that there is extensive cratering and pitting to this

   9   one side of the piece here.

  10            The other side is largely intact.  There is very

  11   little damage to this side here, but this side has almost the

  12   entire length of it has explosive damage.

  13            MR. KARAS:  Thank you.  If you would want to resume

  14   the witness stand.

  15            (Witness resumed stand)

  16   Q.  Agent Sachtleben, did you undertake efforts to determine

  17   what identity of the vehicle that goes with the vehicle pieces

  18   you just describe?

  19   A.  Yes, I did.

  20   Q.  And what did you do?

  21   A.  Well, in the first instance while we were in Nairobi I

  22   contacted representatives of various vehicle manufacturers

  23   that were in Nairobi.  Basically I went to the service

  24   departments of several different vehicle manufacturers and

  25   asked them to come take a look at these parts.




                                                                2240



   1   Q.  And what else did you do?

   2   A.  From talking to the service representatives, a Toyota

   3   representative thought that he recognized these as being

   4   Toyota parts.  So when I got back to the laboratory with these

   5   pieces I made contact with Toyota Motor Corporation in Japan.

   6   Q.  And did you actually meet with Toyota officials in Japan?

   7   A.  Yes, I did.  I went to Nagoya, Japan in 1999, February of

   8   1999, and I toured the assembly plant and met with various

   9   representatives from Toyota.

  10   Q.  And did a representative from Toyota come to the

  11   laboratory in Washington and review these pieces?

  12   A.  Yes.  On two occasions in both 1999 and 2000 an official

  13   from Toyota Motor Corporation, a Mr. Miyage, came to my office

  14   to the laboratory and together we went through all of these

  15   pieces.

  16   Q.  Did you go through all of the pieces, all the vehicle

  17   pieces seized or just these pieces in particular you talked

  18   about?

  19   A.  Right, yes.  I'm glad you pointed that out.  We actually

  20   went through over six hundred pieces together looking at every

  21   piece of metal that we had brought back from the scene in

  22   Nairobi.

  23   Q.  Can you tell us approximately how many of those six

  24   hundred pieces that Mr. Miyage reviewed were identified as

  25   being Toyota pieces?




                                                                2241



   1   A.  The total number was roughly 50 to 60 pieces that he could

   2   say with some degree of certainty came from Toyota.  There

   3   were quite a few other pieces that appeared to him as being

   4   Toyota in origin, but because of the damage to them he really

   5   couldn't come up with a definite conclusion as to their

   6   manufacturer.

   7            MR. KARAS:  Now, if we could just show to the witness

   8   and to counsel, Government Exhibit 840, please.

   9   Q.  Agent Sachtleben, I ask you to take a look at the screen

  10   there on the left and if you could tell us what that is?

  11   A.  This is a photograph that I had, that I directed be taken

  12   and these pieces here are the pieces that Mr. Miyage

  13   identified to me as being from a particular type of Toyota

  14   truck.

  15   Q.  Are some of the pieces that you've testified about earlier

  16   today included in that picture?

  17   A.  Yes, all the pieces that are here on the table are

  18   represented in the photograph.

  19            MR. KARAS:  Your Honor, we offer Government Exhibit

  20   840.

  21            THE COURT:  Received.

  22            (Government's Exhibit 840 received in evidence)

  23   Q.  Now, Agent Sachtleben, based on your surveillance of the

  24   vicinity of the embassy and your review of these pieces, did

  25   you draw any conclusion about the type of explosive that was




                                                                2242



   1   used in this bombing?

   2   A.  Yes.  My conclusion was that a very large quantity of high

   3   explosives had been detonated in the parking area behind the

   4   embassy.

   5   Q.  And did you draw any conclusions about the identity of the

   6   vehicle that was used to deliver that bomb?

   7   A.  Yes.  Based on my observation of the pieces here and my

   8   conversations and meetings with the Toyota Motor Corporation I

   9   came to the conclusion that it was a Toyota truck that had

  10   carried these explosives to the bomb site.

  11   Q.  And, in particular, the pieces that you testified about

  12   earlier today, can you tell us the relationship between those

  13   pieces and the bomb delivery vehicle?

  14   A.  These pieces here, in particular the ones that I held up

  15   for the Court, were specifically identified to me as a

  16   variant, that is a type of Toyota truck that's known as the

  17   Dyna, and a model of Dyna truck, and Dyna is D-Y-N-A, a model

  18   of Dyna truck that is known to Toyota as the MDGT variant.

  19   Q.  And can you tell us what it is about these pieces versus

  20   some of the other six hundred that led you to conclude that

  21   these pieces were from the bomb delivery vehicle?

  22   A.  Well, these particular pieces here, these were the pieces

  23   that exhibited the most noticeable, the most obvious explosive

  24   damage.  That is, these pieces in my opinion were very close

  25   to, if not immediately touching the explosive charge, to the




                                                                2243



   1   exclusion of say a vehicle that could have been as close as

   2   ten or 15 feet away.

   3   Q.  Agent Sachtleben, did you have a chance to review where

   4   some of these pieces were originally found?

   5   A.  Yes, I did.

   6   Q.  And based on your review of those pieces and their origin,

   7   did you reach any conclusions about the general orientation of

   8   the delivery vehicle when the bomb was detonated?

   9   A.  Yes, I did.

  10            MR. KARAS:  If we could display Government Exhibit

  11   802C.

  12   Q.  Now, Agent Sachtleben, the piece that was marked as

  13   Government Exhibit 815 that had the BU6 on it, could you tell

  14   us what type of piece that is?

  15   A.  That piece, the piece with the BU6 on it is the part of a

  16   frame on a Toyota Dyna that is located in the right front

  17   portion of the frame.

  18   Q.  I believe there is a pen-like object on the screen.  If

  19   you could make a mark where it was that that piece was found

  20   of the right front part of the vehicle?

  21   A.  Yes, it was located approximately here (marking) which is

  22   the Pioneer House.

  23   Q.  And that appears to be north, northwest of the US Embassy?

  24   A.  Yes, it is.

  25   Q.  And roughly northeast of where it is indicated the bomb




                                                                2244



   1   crater is?

   2   A.  That's correct.

   3   Q.  Now, can you tell us about where the two axle pieces were

   4   found, Government Exhibits 822 and 823?

   5   A.  The two axle pieces were located on the other side of the

   6   Kenya railway station, roughly 750 or so yards away.  That

   7   area is not depicted on this diagram, but if I could, I could

   8   indicate the direction in which it is.

   9   Q.  Please.

  10   A.  (Marking) Pardon my feeble attempt at an arrow there, but

  11   that is the going in largely a southeasterly direction away

  12   from the embassy and the bomb crater.

  13   Q.  Those are pieces that belong to the rear axle of the

  14   delivery vehicle?

  15   A.  Yes, that's correct.

  16   Q.  Now, based on where these pieces were found can you draw

  17   for us in the back parking lot the orientation or general

  18   sense of where the delivery vehicle was facing when the bomb

  19   was detonated?

  20   A.  All right.  I will draw an arrow and the point of the

  21   arrow will be the general direction that I believe the front

  22   of the truck was facing.  So I've drawn an arrow that is

  23   pointed in a northwesterly direction.

  24   Q.  And is your conclusion based on a specific 90 degree angle

  25   of the Ufundi House, or is there a margin within which the




                                                                2245



   1   orientation of the vehicle was situated?

   2            MR. BAUGH:  Objection, leading.

   3            THE COURT:  Overruled.

   4   A.  There is a certainly a range of angle that the, vehicle

   5   angle that the vehicle could be facing.  I believe that that

   6   range of angle forms in effect a cone, if you will.

   7   Q.  Thank you.  No further questions.

   8            THE COURT:  Mr. Wilford.  On behalf of the defendant

   9   Odeh.

  10   CROSS-EXAMINATION

  11            MR. KARAS:  Your Honor, if I could just offer as an

  12   exhibit what is on the screen now as marked by Agent

  13   Sachtleben 802C-D1.

  14            THE COURT:  Yes, received.

  15            MR. KARAS:  Thank you, your Honor.  (Marked

  16   Government Exhibit 802-D.

  17            (Government's Exhibit 802-D1 received in evidence)

  18            MR. BAUGH:  Excuse me.  Will the agent's mark also

  19   appear permanent on the exhibit that is filed?

  20            MR. KARAS:  We will print it out.

  21            MR. BAUGH:  Thank you.

  22            MR. WILFORD:  May I inquire, your Honor?

  23   Q.  Yes.

  24   BY MR. WILFORD:

  25   Q.  Good morning, Agent Sachtleben.  Am I pronouncing your




                                                                2246



   1   name correctly?

   2   A.  Yes, sir.

   3   Q.  How you doing?

   4   A.  Very good, thank you.

   5   Q.  Now, when you conduct an investigation of an bomb crime

   6   screen you'd like to have as uncontaminated an area as

   7   possible, isn't that correct?

   8   A.  If we can, but unfortunately the nature of bombing scenes

   9   makes that very difficult.

  10   Q.  But you want to get in as quickly as possible before

  11   people move too much stuff around without some direction from

  12   you and members of your team, isn't that correct?

  13   A.  Certainly.

  14   Q.  For example, when you investigated the Oklahoma City

  15   bombing you were there rather quickly, or at least members of

  16   your team were there rather quickly, isn't that correct?

  17   A.  That's correct.

  18   Q.  And when were you the team leader for the World Trade

  19   Center bombing members of your team were there rather quickly,

  20   isn't that correct?

  21   A.  That's correct.

  22   Q.  When we say rather quickly, we mean within minutes to

  23   hours, isn't that correct?

  24   A.  Hours certainly, yes.

  25   Q.  Now, with respect to the bombing of the embassy in Kenya




                                                                2247



   1   you didn't arrive until August 9th; is that correct, at about

   2   2:30 in the morning, right?

   3   A.  That's right.

   4   Q.  You didn't do anything when you got there 2:30 in the

   5   morning in terms of investigating, did you?

   6   A.  I did not.

   7   Q.  So you didn't start doing anything until about 7, 8

   8   o'clock in the morning, right?

   9   A.  That's right.

  10   Q.  So you were already almost two full days time elapsed

  11   before you got to commence your particular supervision of any

  12   investigation related to the recovery of materials, isn't that

  13   correct?

  14   A.  My supervision, that's correct.  Of course there were

  15   other people there before me.

  16   Q.  Well, who was there first?

  17   A.  Our legal attache, that is the agent who's assigned to the

  18   FBI office in South Africa.  I believe he arrived on the

  19   afternoon of August 7th.

  20   Q.  But he's not a bomb expert, right?

  21   A.  I don't know his background.  I know that he has had some

  22   training in investigation like all FBI agents.

  23   Q.  I'm sure.  But you are an expert in bombs and being able

  24   to make determinations with respect to where you recover

  25   stuff, isn't that correct?




                                                                2248



   1   A.  That's correct.

   2   Q.  He doesn't have the same qualifications you do, isn't that

   3   correct?

   4   A.  That's correct.

   5   Q.  That's why they flew you over to Kenya because you have

   6   this expertise, right?

   7   A.  Yes, sir.

   8   Q.  So until you got there no one was really conducting the

   9   investigation from the same particular perspective of

  10   expertise that you have, isn't that correct?

  11   A.  Perhaps with my depth of knowledge, but there were other

  12   FBI personnel that were on the scene who had knowledge of

  13   bombing investigations.

  14   Q.  Well, is it a fact that when you flew over you came over

  15   with a whole team of experts?

  16   A.  I came over actually with a very small crew.  The team

  17   followed behind me, maybe by about eight hours or so.

  18   Q.  But all of the experts were being flown in, isn't that

  19   correct?

  20   A.  Yes, for the most part, yes.

  21   Q.  Is it also true that you couldn't go close to the embassy

  22   itself because the rescue and recovery operations were still

  23   going on when you arrived and you said I believe on direct

  24   that you started on a very far away perimeter and worked your

  25   way in, isn't that correct?




                                                                2249



   1   A.  I actually went on to the rubble pile the day I arrived.

   2   I looked at that, surveyed it and then directed personnel to

   3   other locations.

   4   Q.  Took pictures of it?

   5   A.  I did not personally take pictures of it, but photographs

   6   were being taken.

   7   Q.  Were you directing people at that point in terms of the

   8   rescue and recovery operation as to perhaps putting rubble

   9   that they moved in a particular place or was that not a

  10   concern at all?

  11   A.  My concern was to stay out of their way, let them do their

  12   job and be there to observe.

  13   Q.  Now, when you -- withdrawn.  When there is in fact a

  14   rescue operation, rescue-recovery operation, as you said, the

  15   rubble is just being tossed around, right?

  16   A.  Yes.

  17   Q.  And things are being tossed around and there may be some

  18   particular items which you would make a conclusion on that had

  19   been moved that you didn't particularly find in the place

  20   where they were, isn't that a fact?

  21   A.  That's correct.

  22   Q.  Now, I want to talk with you for a moment if I might about

  23   the explosive device and the placement of it.

  24            Is there a parking garage that goes underneath the

  25   embassy?




                                                                2250



   1   A.  Yes, there is.

   2   Q.  And if you wanted to, for lack of a better word, blow up

   3   the embassy itself, would you put this truck or bomb delivery

   4   vehicle, whatever it may have been, underneath the embassy?

   5            Wouldn't that have been optimum effect in terms of

   6   blowing up the embassy?

   7   A.  That's a tough call, because it's going to depend very

   8   much on the way the embassy was constructed and whether when

   9   you put it in that garage if you put it at a point where it

  10   would actually cause the structural supports to collapse.  It

  11   may or may not.

  12   Q.  Well, in the World Trade Center case, the bomb was placed

  13   under the garage, under the World Trade Center, isn't that

  14   correct?

  15   A.  Actually not under the World Trade Center, the bomb was

  16   placed in the garage under the Vista Hotel.

  17   Q.  And it was an attempt to get under the World Trade Center

  18   to effect the structural --

  19            MR. KARAS:  Objection.

  20            THE COURT:  Sustained.

  21   Q.  Sir, in this particular instance in your examination of

  22   the embassy, if the bomb had been placed under the embassy

  23   would that have any impact on the structure?

  24   A.  It may have.  The embassy was built from extremely sturdy

  25   construction and my observation, I'm certainly not an




                                                                2251



   1   architect or an engineer, but my observation from seeing other

   2   bombed-out buildings is that that embassy probably would have

   3   withstood a fairly good sized blast without collapsing.

   4   Q.  When you say a fairly good sized blast one of the

   5   magnitude of this one?

   6   A.  Possibly.

   7   Q.  But you can't say with any certainty, can you?

   8   A.  Oh, certainly not.  That's just my estimation.

   9   Q.  Would be fair to say, sir, that if the bomb had actually

  10   been placed under the embassy as opposed to on the south end

  11   of it that the damage to the embassy itself would have been

  12   greater than suffered in this particular damage?

  13   A.  That's possible.  That one is pretty difficult to

  14   speculate because, again, it's going to depend on where it

  15   exactly is within the building.

  16   Q.  So you have no way of telling whether or not it would have

  17   been greater or not?

  18   A.  I don't have any magic formula for that one, sir, no.

  19   Q.  Now, when you went through this recovery process with all

  20   the items that are now on the table before the jury, that was

  21   done with an intent to try to determine what type of explosive

  22   was used, is that correct?

  23   A.  Not so much the type of explosive, because generically

  24   we're just looking to classify it as say a low explosive

  25   versus a high explosive, but as to the particular type of




                                                                2252



   1   explosive, that's almost impossible to do, just from

   2   observation.

   3   Q.  Well, I didn't mean just from observation.  You collected

   4   these items and in fact sent them back to the FBI lab so some

   5   further forensic analysis could be done, isn't that correct?

   6   A.  But the type of forensic analysis that we did on these

   7   pieces was not to identify the type of explosive used.

   8   Q.  Well, are you aware of whether or not any findings were

   9   made as to the type of explosives?

  10   A.  I am aware that there were findings made to the type of

  11   explosive.

  12   Q.  Sir, could you tell the jury what TNT is?

  13   A.  TNT is trinitrotoluene.  It is a type of high explosive.

  14   Q.  And what forms does TNT come in?

  15   A.  TNT is generally manufactured by a casting process.  That

  16   is raw materials are mixed together, heated up until they're

  17   form kind of a liquid slurry, soupy kind of a mixture and then

  18   that material can be poured into molds and cast into blocks.

  19   Q.  Can TNT be ground up?

  20   A.  Certainly.

  21   Q.  What happens when it's ground up?

  22   A.  When it's ground up it becomes more of a powdery granular

  23   type of material, but it retains most of its explosive power.

  24   Q.  That doesn't have the impact inn the manner in which the

  25   explosive device will be utilized, does it?




                                                                2253



   1   A.  It could.  When you start to grind up material, high

   2   explosive, in particular high explosives need a particular

   3   density for them to work.  If you grind something up and make

   4   it into too fine a powder, you can actually decrease the

   5   sensitivity of it.

   6   Q.  And isn't it a fact that when the TNT is ground up that it

   7   is dispersed into the air and it can get on clothing and other

   8   objects that are in close proximity?

   9   A.  Certainly.

  10   Q.  Now, could you tell the jury what PETN is?

  11   A.  PETN is another type of high explosive.  I probably have

  12   to go back to my reference book to give you the exact spelling

  13   of what the PETN stands for, but suffice it to say it is

  14   another variant of high explosives.

  15   Q.  It's different from TNT?

  16   A.  Yes, it is.

  17   Q.  Now, C4, what is that, sir?

  18   A.  C4 is the designation that the United States government

  19   has given to a type of plastic explosive.

  20   Q.  It's not a chemical explosive, is it?  It's just a plastic

  21   explosive, isn't that correct?

  22   A.  Well, all explosives are made from chemicals so certainly

  23   C4 is made from a particular type of high explosive.  It's a

  24   type of high explosive.  The main component is an explosive

  25   called RDX.




                                                                2254



   1   Q.  The plastic explosives are they used in the detonation

   2   devices?

   3   A.  Plastic explosives can be used like any other explosive.

   4   The reason they're called plastic is because there is some

   5   materials put into them known as plasticizers, that is it make

   6   them pliable.  It's kind of like Silly Putty is how it looks

   7   and so you can mold it somewhat.

   8   Q.  Now, Agent Sachtleben, when the collection and evidence

   9   gathering was going on were you aware that the Israelis also

  10   had people involved in collection and gathering of evidence

  11   with respect to the embassy bombing?

  12   A.  I don't know about gathering evidence.  There was an

  13   Israeli urban search and rescue team there.  That is there was

  14   a group of Israelis who had come down to assist the Kenyans in

  15   the rescue of the wounded from the you Ufundi House.

  16   Q.  Are you aware, sir, that the Israelis conducted their own

  17   analysis forensic analysis of materials recovered from the

  18   bomb scene?

  19   A.  Yes, I'm aware that they took away some samples from the

  20   scene.

  21   Q.  Did they share that information with you?

  22   A.  I've seen a report, yes.

  23   Q.  And are you aware of the results of the Israeli forensic

  24   examination?

  25   A.  Yes.  Generally I'm aware of it, yes.




                                                                2255



   1   Q.  Would you -- and you're also aware of the results of the

   2   FBI forensic examination, isn't that correct?

   3   A.  Certainly.

   4   Q.  Are those results the same?

   5   A.  They're not exactly the same, no.

   6   Q.  Now, sir, when a high explosive device is detonated and

   7   you have this explosion would it be fair to say that the

   8   explosive material is dispersed and dissipated, it's not going

   9   to remain in a large clump, isn't that correct?

  10   A.  Well, the explosive material isn't necessarily dissipated.

  11   What happens during a detonation is that a solid material is

  12   chemically changed from that solid into a gas, so that there

  13   is actually a molecular change that takes place.  Some times

  14   material does not react.  That is the explosive material

  15   doesn't change into the gas.  That material is sometimes

  16   projected away from the explosion site.

  17   Q.  But in the recovery process then in this particular case

  18   the items that you recovered they didn't have large amounts of

  19   explosive material on them, did they?

  20   A.  I'm not aware that any of these items that are here had

  21   any explosive material found on them.

  22   Q.  They just in fact gave an indication that some charring

  23   and pitting had occurred to indicate that it was in fact an

  24   explosion?

  25   A.  Yes.  What I looked at was the physical characteristics,




                                                                2256



   1   that is the appearance and the changes that I observed from

   2   what I knew they looked like in their original states and from

   3   what they looked like when I saw them at the crime scene.

   4   Q.  When you were conducting your investigation you also had

   5   agents who were particularly assigned to do swabbing of

   6   particular material, isn't that correct?

   7   A.  That's correct.

   8   Q.  And that swabbing was in fact to gather material to see

   9   whether or not there were any traces of explosive devices in

  10   that material that they were swabbing, isn't that correct?

  11   A.  That is correct.

  12   Q.  And would it be fair to say that that swabbing would not

  13   reveal large amount of explosive devices, but what we call or

  14   where you would call in your expertise a trace amount, is that

  15   correct?

  16   A.  That is correct.

  17   Q.  Could you explain to the jury what a trace amount is?

  18   A.  Well, when an explosive reacts, when it changes from the

  19   solid to the gaseous state it leaves very minute in some cases

  20   microscopic particles of the chemicals that make up an

  21   explosive.  Those particles will actually adhere to other

  22   surfaces.  Very often they don't adhere to the pieces that are

  23   the closest to the explosion because of almost a scouring

  24   effect that you have on those pieces of metal there.

  25            We typically fine those particles away from the scene




                                                                2257



   1   where they've had a chance to kind of slow down if you will

   2   and grab on to things.

   3   Q.  Because the whole process is that in order to change from

   4   a solid to a gas gets heated up and the molecule starts moving

   5   very fast, is that correct?

   6   A.  That's correct.

   7   Q.  And when it hits something it slows down the momentum and

   8   maybe will convert back to a solid or adhere to that

   9   particular surface, right?

  10   A.  That's right.

  11   Q.  Now, sir, how minuscule can the FBI or forensic analysis

  12   go in terms of determining what you described as trace

  13   evidence?  How small can it go?

  14   A.  I'd have to probably defer to the chemists to give you

  15   exact numbers.  I'm aware that it is an extremely small

  16   amount.  It is certainly smaller than what could be seen with

  17   the naked eye, and really we're talking microscopic levels.

  18   Q.  Even, and a high powered microscope at that, isn't that

  19   correct?

  20   A.  Certainly.

  21   Q.  Now, sir, the items that are on this table that you

  22   described as being from the truck, do those items contain the

  23   entirety of the truck parts that you found?

  24   A.  Oh, no, this is a fairly small number of pieces

  25   representative I have what we found.




                                                                2258



   1   Q.  Did you during the course of your investigation recover

   2   parts of the truck that would allow you to associate them with

   3   the cab of the truck?

   4   A.  Cab.  I'm not -- perhaps you could define that a little

   5   more closely?

   6   Q.  Okay.  The cab would be the area where the person who is

   7   driving the truck is.

   8   A.  Okay.  Well, I found pieces that were identified to me as

   9   for example the brake pedal which I would associate with the

  10   cab of the vehicle.

  11            (Continued on next page)

  12

  13

  14

  15

  16

  17

  18

  19

  20

  21

  22

  23

  24

  25




                                                                2259



   1   Q.  Where did you find the brake pedal?

   2   A.  I would have to look -- well, my recollection of the brake

   3   pedal was that it was located -- in fact, I think it might be

   4   on that table if I am not mistaken.  It was located in what we

   5   termed the rubble pile.

   6            MR. WILFORD:  Can we have 802-CDS up again, please.

   7   Q.  Agent Sachtleben, looking at that particular exhibit,

   8   could you demonstrate for the jury where it was that you

   9   recovered the brake pedal?

  10   A.  The best I am going to be able to do is give you the

  11   general area of the rubble pile, but I must caution you and

  12   say that I have to review the evidence tag on that piece to

  13   say in fact that it was from the rubble pile.  That is my

  14   recollection at this point.

  15            MR. WILFORD:  Your Honor, with the court's

  16   permission, can Agent Sachtleben step down and come to the

  17   table?

  18            THE COURT:  Yes.  Agent, tell us the exhibit number.

  19            THE WITNESS:  Yes, sir.  I am referring here to

  20   Government's Exhibit 818.  This piece here was identified for

  21   me as the brake pedal, and the location -- and I was mistaken

  22   in my recollection.  The location was not the rubble pile.

  23   Generator building of American Embassy.

  24   Q.  Could you return to the witness stand and indicate on

  25   802C-DS where that is.




                                                                2260



   1            Are you OK?

   2   A.  Yes.  The hazards of testifying.

   3            If I may be permitted to mark on this.

   4            MR. WILFORD:  As long as the government has no

   5   objection.

   6            THE COURT:  Go ahead.

   7   A.  I am going to circle -- this is a building that on this

   8   diagram is not labeled, but my recollection is that that

   9   square, if you will, is the generator house.

  10   Q.  This area right here on the exhibit?

  11   A.  Yes, sir.

  12   Q.  The container portion of the truck, Agent, did you find

  13   any pieces of the container portion of the truck?

  14   A.  If you are referring to, say, the sheetmetal or the wood

  15   or whatever form the rear area of the truck?

  16   Q.  Yes.

  17   A.  Not to my knowledge, no.

  18   Q.  None whatsoever?

  19   A.  None that could be identified as such.  We certainly found

  20   fragments of wood and sheetmetal, but none that we could say

  21   to any degree of certainty came from this particular Toyota

  22   truck.

  23   Q.  When you were discussing previously with Mr. Karas the

  24   location for your estimation of the location of the vehicle,

  25   you said that there was a range that it could have been in; is




                                                                2261



   1   that correct?

   2   A.  Yes.

   3   Q.  Would you be kind enough to exhibit that range by drawing

   4   it.

   5   A.  Certainly.  What I am drawing is a curved line, and I will

   6   put at either line an airhead -- I am attempting to put an

   7   airhead -- to indicate that generally that swing could

   8   represent the orientation of the vehicle.

   9   Q.  Of the vehicle?

  10   A.  Of the truck, yes.  The rear end of the truck could very

  11   well have been oriented to the either left as you are looking

  12   at the diagram or right of that curved line with the airheads.

  13            MR. WILFORD:  Thank you.  No further questions.

  14            THE COURT:  Mr. Baugh on behalf of the defendant

  15   Al-'Owhali.

  16            MR. BAUGH:  Just a few.

  17   CROSS-EXAMINATION

  18   BY MR. BAUGH:

  19   Q.  Good morning, sir.

  20   A.  Good morning.

  21   Q.  The Ufundi House collapsed?

  22   A.  Yes, sir.

  23   Q.  And the American Embassy did not?

  24   A.  No, sir, it did not.

  25   Q.  Did you notice something in the difference of the




                                                                2262



   1   construction that caused that to occur?

   2   A.  Again, I am not an architect or engineer but it appeared

   3   to me that perhaps the American Embassy had some greater

   4   substance to it.

   5   Q.  When you say substance, did you notice a difference in the

   6   amount of reinforcement?

   7   A.  I never actually saw any of the internal structure of the

   8   American Embassy because it was largely intact.

   9   Q.  What is over-pressure, by the way?

  10   A.  Over-pressure is the shock wave that is produced in an

  11   explosion.  If you wanted to perhaps visualize it, if you can

  12   think of when you drop a pebble in a pond and you see those

  13   ripples that come off when the pebble strikes the pond, that

  14   is a kind of visualization of the pressure waves that come off

  15   an explosion.

  16   Q.  Do the pressure waves come in all speeds from all

  17   directions or can they be affected by being, for instance,

  18   behind the cab of a truck?

  19   A.  The effect would be negligible based on that quantity of

  20   explosives.

  21   Q.  To destroy the embassy, would it be better to put the

  22   device as close to the embassy as possible?

  23   A.  Certainly.

  24   Q.  Under the embassy would have been the optimum place to

  25   destroy the embassy?




                                                                2263



   1   A.  I don't think I am qualified to judge that.  It is

   2   possible but there are so many variables that I couldn't say

   3   for certain.

   4   Q.  If the device had been situated under the American

   5   Embassy, within these walls contained around here, would that

   6   have lessened the damage to these other buildings?

   7   A.  It could have.

   8   Q.  Would it have been foreseeable to you, for instance, that

   9   if the bomb was placed underneath the embassy, the Ufundi

  10   House could have collapsed?  Would that have been conceivable?

  11   A.  It would be possible but perhaps less likely.

  12   Q.  Would it minimize damage to others, placing the bomb under

  13   the embassy?

  14   A.  Define others.

  15   Q.  Other than Americans.  If you wanted to protect the lives

  16   of Kenyans in these other buildings, the Cooperative House and

  17   the Ufundi House, would the best place to have place a device

  18   been within the walls of the embassy?

  19   A.  I don't know about the Kenyans in the American Embassy but

  20   perhaps the people outside.

  21   Q.  But it would have helped these people in the other

  22   buildings?

  23   A.  Possibly.

  24   Q.  Based on what you could observe of the three structures

  25   here, would you say that the U.S. Embassy was a more durable




                                                                2264



   1   building?  Better made?

   2   A.  It held up better than the Ufundi House, and the damage to

   3   the Cooperative Bank was similar.

   4            THE COURT:  Similar to the embassy?

   5            THE WITNESS:  Yes, sir, similar to the embassy.

   6   Q.  So the people in the U.S. Embassy would have been better

   7   protected than the people outside the building and the people

   8   in these other buildings?

   9   A.  Perhaps -- see if I can break that question down.

  10   Q.  Would the people inside the embassy building have been

  11   better protected than the people standing outside?

  12   A.  Based on what scenario?

  13   Q.  The size of the explosion and where it was situated.

  14   A.  Yes, the people in the embassy were perhaps better

  15   protected against, say, collapse but not against blast

  16   pressure and the effect of breaking glass.

  17   Q.  In your training and experience, were you surprised to see

  18   that the Ufundi building collapsed entirely?

  19   A.  Not particularly.  Again, I am not an engineer so I can't

  20   necessarily say what caused that building to collapse.

  21   Q.  Didn't you evaluate that in determining the size of the

  22   device?

  23   A.  No, other than just coming to the conclusion that there

  24   was a large quantity of explosives present in the parking lot

  25   behind the embassy.




                                                                2265



   1   Q.  And the damage from this bomb would have radiated equally

   2   in all directions?

   3   A.  Yes, sir.

   4            MR. BAUGH:  Thank you.

   5            THE COURT:  Anything further of this witness?

   6            MR. WILFORD:  Your Honor, I do have a question based

   7   on the questioning.

   8            THE COURT:  Yes.

   9            MR. WILFORD:  Your Honor, I just need one second.

  10   Your Honor, may I approach the witness with a blank piece of

  11   paper?

  12            THE COURT:  Yes.

  13            MR. WILFORD:  Which we will mark Odeh AA for

  14   identification.

  15   CROSS-EXAMINATION

  16   BY MR. WILFORD:

  17   Q.  With the court's permission, I would ask that Agent

  18   Sachtleben draw a diagram of the pebble effect that he was

  19   discussing with Mr. Baugh.  Could you be kind enough to start

  20   in the center of the page, Agent.

  21   A.  Certainly.

  22   Q.  Thank you.

  23   A.  What I will do is assume that this entire sheet of paper

  24   would perhaps be representative of a pond, and I will draw a

  25   circle in the center, put an X in it, and that would represent




                                                                2266



   1   the pebble dropping into the pond.

   2            Now I am going to draw the best I can a series of

   3   circles around that, and for simplicity I will just do five,

   4   and then I am going to draw some arrows in four directions,

   5   leading away from the pebble in the center, if you will.

   6            MR. WILFORD:  Your Honor, I would ask if the

   7   government has an objection to this item coming in.

   8            MR. KARAS:  No objection.

   9            MR. WILFORD:  I am offering it in.  I would also like

  10   to have it published to the jury.

  11            THE COURT:  It may be published.

  12            MR. WILFORD:  Subsequent to the publication, I have

  13   no further questions.

  14            MR. BAUGH:  Nothing further.

  15            THE COURT:  Odeh AA.

  16            (Defendant's Exhibit Odeh AA received in evidence)

  17            MR. KARAS:  Just one question, your Honor.

  18   REDIRECT EXAMINATION

  19   BY MR. KARAS:

  20   Q.  Agent Sachtleben, the shock waves you described, can they

  21   bounce off those structures and sort of shock back, as it

  22   were?

  23   A.  Yes.  Perhaps if I could use one other brief analogy to

  24   illustrate that.  This, of course, what you see on the screen

  25   here, is to the ripple effect.  The only problem with this




                                                                2267



   1   analogy is that we all think of the ripples of a pebble as

   2   kind of benign.  They gently go off and dissipate at the end.

   3   Perhaps if you thought of it more as a billiard table and you

   4   think about the rack, the triangle, the billiard balls, and

   5   when you pack them very tightly together and you strike the

   6   cue ball and the cue ball goes into that triangle and hits it

   7   with some force, and those balls are broken apart and go off

   8   in all directions, if you do it hard enough and you have a big

   9   enough person doing this, they can come off with a great deal

  10   of violence, and when they come to the rail of the tables,

  11   they bounce and come back and strike each other again.  That's

  12   what is happening when you take the quantity of explosives,

  13   you hit it with a shock wave and break that explosive apart

  14   and release its energy.

  15            So yes, this diagram here does show just the ripples

  16   coming above but what it doesn't show is when they strike the

  17   side of a building and bounce back into where the bomb is

  18   located, now you have the force going in almost every

  19   conceivable direction depending on the angles surrounding it.

  20            MR. KARAS:  Thank you.  No further questions.

  21            MR. WILFORD:  Judge?

  22            THE COURT:  Yes.

  23   RECROSS-EXAMINATION

  24   BY MR. WILFORD:

  25   Q.  Agent Sachtleben, you are absolutely correct, the shock




                                                                2268



   1   waves will bounce back, correct?

   2   A.  Yes.

   3   Q.  But we are talking about the point of ignition.  When the

   4   explosive device is ignited, when it first occurs, that is

   5   what you are talking about from a pebble being dropped in the

   6   stream and it goes out, expands in all directions.

   7   A.  Yes.  It releases from the point of detonation.  It may

   8   not be the center.  From where the explosives are detonated

   9   the energy releases and goes out in a 360-degree pattern.

  10            MR. WILFORD:  Thank you very much.

  11            THE COURT:  Thank you, Agent.  You may step down.

  12            (Witness excused)

  13            MR. KARAS:  Your Honor, the government calls Junichi

  14   Myagi.

  15    JUNICHI MYAGI,

  16        called as a witness by the government,

  17        having been duly sworn, testified as follows:

  18            (Eugene Nakada was duly sworn as the Japanese

  19   interpreter)

  20    DIRECT EXAMINATION

  21   BY MR. KARAS:

  22   Q.  Good morning, sir.  Can you tell us a little about your

  23   education.

  24   A.  In 1966 I graduated from the University of Yamanashi.

  25   Q.  What did you study there?




                                                                2269



   1   A.  I studied mechanical engineering.

   2   Q.  Where did you first begin to work after you graduated from

   3   the University of Yamanashi?

   4   A.  Immediately I was employed by the Toyota Motor

   5   Corporation.

   6   Q.  That is in 1966?

   7   A.  Yes.

   8   Q.  For how long did you work for Toyota?

   9   A.  It has been about 32 years.

  10   Q.  Where do you work currently?

  11   A.  This January, I retired as the general manager, one of the

  12   general managers, at the Toyota Motor Corporation.  Since then

  13   I was employed by the subsidiary of Toyota called Araco, where

  14   I am general manager of the research and engineering

  15   department.

  16   Q.  What type of work does Araco do?  What type of business it

  17   is it?

  18   A.  The Araco Company designs the body of Toyota vehicles that

  19   are mounted on a Toyota chassis and frame.  We also

  20   manufacture the seats installed in the Toyota vehicles.

  21   Q.  While you worked for the Toyota Corporation, what did you

  22   do?

  23   A.  As soon as I joined the Toyota Corporation, my job was to

  24   design, I was assigned to the designing section of the Toyota

  25   Dyna company.




                                                                2270



   1   Q.  What type of vehicle is a Toyota Dyna?

   2   A.  It's, roughly speaking, a 2-ton truck.

   3   Q.  Between 1966 and 2000, can you tell us about some of the

   4   positions you have held within the Toyota company.

   5   A.  When I first started working I was designing part of the

   6   Dyna.  By 1975 I was the assistant manager in charge of the

   7   overall design of the chassis and frame of the Dyna.

   8   Q.  Can you tell us -- I am sorry, go ahead.

   9   A.  By 1985 I was the manager in charge of the overall design

  10   of the Dyna frame, plus five other vehicles of the Toyota

  11   Corporation.  In 1983, I became the manager and I was in

  12   charge of the designing of Toyota Dyna as well as five other

  13   vehicles.  In 1991, I became the general manager responsible

  14   for the designing of the frame and chassis of 10 vehicles,

  15   including the Toyota Dyna.

  16   Q.  Can you tell us what exactly a chassis is.

  17   A.  A chassis is, using a human body as an example, it would

  18   be like our leg.

  19   Q.  What function does it serve for the vehicle?

  20   A.  It enables the vehicle to be anal to able to run, stop,

  21   turn, and that type of function.

  22   Q.  Can you give us some examples of what are considered

  23   chassis parts?

  24   A.  Front axle, rear axle, steering mechanism, and the frame.

  25   Q.  Can you tell us what a frame is.




                                                                2271



   1   A.  It's the component that supports these chassis.

   2   Q.  Mr. Miyagi, are you familiar with a Dyna model known as an

   3   MDGT?

   4   A.  Yes, I am aware of it.

   5   Q.  Did Toyota start to produce that model before or after you

   6   began working for Toyota?

   7   A.  It is after I started work for Toyota.

   8   Q.  What role did you have in the production of the MDGT?

   9   A.  I was responsible for the designing of its chassis.

  10   Q.  Can you tell us what the M stands for within MDGT?

  11   A.  M refers to the manual transmission.

  12   Q.  What about the D?

  13   A.  It's the type of vehicle referring to -- the D stands for

  14   deluxe.

  15   Q.  And the G?

  16   A.  It indicates that the truck bed is at a low level and that

  17   it is lined with wood.

  18   Q.  It's a flat bed?

  19   A.  It's flat, yes.

  20   Q.  Finally, can you tell us what the T means.

  21   A.  It refers to the rear tire.  It means that on one side

  22   there are two wheels, so on the rear there would be a total of

  23   four tires.

  24   Q.  Can you distinguish between the cab and the bed?

  25   A.  A cab is where the driver and his assistant would be




                                                                2272



   1   sitting.  It's that compartment.  The bed would be where the

   2   load is carried.

   3   Q.  In the mid-1980's, Mr. Myagi, can you tell us how much the

   4   average MDGT weighed?

   5   A.  The vehicle itself weighed two tons.  With a load it would

   6   weigh four tons.

   7   Q.  Can you tell us in the mid-1980's how long the truck bed

   8   was of the MDGT?

   9   A.  About 3,100 millimeters.

  10   Q.  Does that translate into approximately 3 meters?

  11   A.  That's right.

  12   Q.  Mr. Miyagi, did there come a time that you were asked to

  13   go to Washington, D.C. and meet with officials from the FBI?

  14   A.  Yes, I met them.

  15   Q.  Do you remember when, approximately, that was?

  16   A.  The first time it was in June 1999.  The second time was

  17   also in June, year 2000.

  18   Q.  What did you do when you went to the FBI?

  19   A.  I extracted -- there were many parts laying around.  From

  20   there, my job was to identify and extract what belonged to a

  21   Dyna.

  22   Q.  Were you able to find parts that you identified as being

  23   from a Dyna?

  24   A.  Yes, I was able to.

  25   Q.  Can you tell us whether or not you were able to identify




                                                                2273



   1   parts that were unique to an MDGT model of a Dyna?

   2   A.  Yes, there were.

   3            MR. KARAS:  If we could display Government's Exhibit

   4   380, please, which is already in evidence.

   5   Q.  Mr. Myagi, if you could look to the screen there to your

   6   left.

   7   A.  Yes.

   8   Q.  Do you recognize what is on the screen?

   9   A.  This is the Dyna parts that were identified among other

  10   others, and were displayed.

  11   Q.  Can you tell us on which side of the picture are what

  12   would have been front pieces of the Dyna appear.

  13   A.  It's on the right side.

  14   Q.  And the rear pieces?

  15   A.  It's aligned on the left side of the screen.

  16   Q.  Mr. Myagi, when you were involved in the design of the

  17   chassis parts, were you also involved in the creation of

  18   blueprints or diagrams of these parts?

  19   A.  Yes, I took part.

  20   Q.  Mr. Myagi, I would like to have you shown what has been

  21   marked as Government's Exhibit 841A through 841F.  Take a

  22   moment to review each one.

  23   A.  Yes, I have recognized these.

  24   Q.  If you want to take a look at all of them and then I will

  25   ask you some questions.




                                                                2274



   1   A.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.

   2   Q.  Mr. Myagi, can you tell us what those exhibits are?

   3   A.  Those are the design drawings of parts of the Dyna.

   4   Q.  Does your name appear on those design drawings?

   5   A.  Yes, I see my signature.

   6   Q.  Are they fair and accurate depictions of the design

   7   drawings that you participated in creating?

   8   A.  It's the same thing.

   9            MR. KARAS:  Your Honor, the government offers

  10   Government's Exhibits 841A through 841F.

  11            MR. WILFORD:  No objection.

  12            THE COURT:  Received.

  13            (Government's Exhibits 841A through 841F received in

  14   evidence) kilo.

  15            MR. KARAS:  Your Honor, may I ask that Mr. Myagi be

  16   asked to step down and approach the exhibit table?

  17            THE COURT:  Yes.

  18   Q.  Mr. Myagi, if you would like to put them on, there is a

  19   pair of gloves there.  Mr. Myagi, could you take a look at the

  20   piece marked with little yellow stickers 816, which should be

  21   towards the left side of the table.

  22   A.  Yes.

  23   Q.  Could you tell us what that part is.

  24   A.  This is a support assembly to support the rear spring

  25   suspension on the rear.




                                                                2275



   1   Q.  Can you tell us whether or not that part is unique to the

   2   Dyna MDGT model?

   3   A.  Yes.

   4   Q.  Did you help design that part?

   5   A.  Yes, I participated.

   6   Q.  And looking at the drawing that is marked as Government's

   7   Exhibit 841A, if you could point to where that part appears,

   8   on the diagram.  The piece you just identified, is it on that

   9   diagram?

  10   A.  This portion is drawn right in.  This portion is right

  11   there.

  12   Q.  Referring to the lower left-hand corner of the diagram.

  13   A.  This portion is reflected.

  14   Q.  If you could take a look at the piece marked as

  15   Government's Exhibit 817, which should be near the piece you

  16   just picked up.

  17   A.  Yes, I found it.

  18   Q.  Can you tell us what that piece is.

  19   A.  It's part of a support bracket that supports the spring

  20   suspension assembly.

  21   Q.  Did you help design that piece?

  22   A.  Yes, I participated.

  23   Q.  If you could look at the diagram marked as 841B and point

  24   to where that appears on the diagram.

  25   A.  Yes, it's reflected there.




                                                                2276



   1   Q.  By the way, does your name appear on that diagram marked

   2   as 841B?

   3   A.  Yes, that's where it is written.

   4   Q.  Down at the bottom right, for the record.

   5   A.  Yes.

   6   Q.  Mr. Myagi, if you could put that piece down, and just

   7   point to Government's Exhibits 822 and 823.  I think 823 is

   8   just to the right of the piece you just had.

   9   A.  Yes, I see.

  10   Q.  Can you tell us what those are.

  11   A.  This is portion of the Toyota Dyna rear axle assembly.

  12   Q.  Can you tell us whether or not those pieces are unique to

  13   the MDGT model?

  14   A.  Yes.

  15   Q.  What is the distinguishing characteristic of those pieces

  16   among the other Dyna rear axle pieces?

  17   A.  As you can see, this has only four holes to mount the

  18   part.  All others will have six holes to mount.

  19   Q.  Did you help design the rear axle piece for the MDGT?

  20   A.  Yes.  It's my design.

  21   Q.  And if you look at the diagram that is marked as 841C, can

  22   you point to the four holes in the diagram.

  23   A.  Yes.

  24   Q.  If you could just point to where they are on the diagram.

  25   A.  The four holes here are reflected there.




                                                                2277



   1   Q.  Mr. Myagi, if you could take a look at what is marked

   2   Government's Exhibit 821, just to the right of the axles.

   3   A.  I found it.

   4   Q.  Can you tell us what that piece is.

   5   A.  This is part of a Toyota Dyna frame, the rear portion.

   6   Q.  Is that piece unique to the MDGT?

   7   A.  Yes.

   8   Q.  Does it appear on that diagram behind you?

   9   A.  Yes, it's drawn there.

  10   Q.  Which, for the record, is marked as 841D.

  11            Mr. Myagi, could you take a look at the piece marked

  12   as 815.  What piece is that?

  13   A.  It is a fragment of the front portion of the Toyota frame,

  14   Toyota Dyna frame.

  15   Q.  Can you tell us if it's the left or the right portion?

  16   A.  This belongs to the right side.

  17   Q.  How do you know that?

  18   A.  There is a frame number marked there.  A frame number like

  19   this is always stamped on the right side.

  20   Q.  Can you tell from the frame number if that's a Toyota Dyna

  21   part?

  22   A.  Yes, I recognize.

  23   Q.  Just by your right hand there, if you could take a look at

  24   the brake pedal marked as 818, and do you see the number 82

  25   stamped on that part?




                                                                2278



   1   A.  Why, it's marked there.

   2   Q.  Can you tell us whether or not you recognize that as a

   3   Dyna brake pedal?

   4   A.  It shows that it belongs to a Dyna with a right steering

   5   wheel.

   6   Q.  And if you could take a look at what has been marked as

   7   828, just by your right hand there.

   8   A.  Yes, I see.

   9   Q.  Can you tell us what that is?

  10   A.  This is part of a Toyota Dyna front axle.

  11   Q.  Is there anything about that part that tells you whether

  12   that part was used in a right side or left side driver

  13   vehicle?

  14   A.  On the vehicle it would be roughly in this position, and

  15   facing the front, to my front would be the front.  Therefore,

  16   it can be said that this belongs to the right side.

  17   Q.  Are there any markings on that piece that tell you which

  18   side the driver is on?

  19   A.  Yes.  Here is stamped UR.

  20   Q.  Thank you.  If you could take a look at what has been

  21   marked as Government's Exhibit 826, which I believe is the

  22   Pittman arm.  Can you tell us what that part is used for.

  23   A.  It's attached to the steering gearbox.  As the steering

  24   wheel rotates, it moves back and forth.

  25   Q.  Could you, if you sort of face the table, show the jury




                                                                2279



   1   how that piece is oriented, which is the front and which is

   2   the back.

   3   A.  This is way up front of the vehicle.  It's on the right

   4   side.  So the front of the vehicle will be in this way.

   5   Q.  Do you see any damage on that piece?

   6   A.  Yes, I see damage on that side.

   7   Q.  The side that you say you see damage on, which way would

   8   that be facing?  To the front of the truck or the back?

   9   A.  The vehicle when facing front, this would point to the

  10   rear side of the front.

  11   Q.  Is that piece used in all Toyota Dyna trucks?

  12   A.  Just there is a letter P stamped right there.  This

  13   indicates that it is used only for power steering models.

  14   Q.  Do you see that part on the diagram marked as 841F?

  15   A.  That's the portion and that's where the letter P appears.

  16   Q.  Thank you.  Do you see an engine block on that table?

  17   A.  I see one component that belongs to an engine.

  18   Q.  Can you tell us whether or not that type of engine block

  19   was used in Toyota Dyna MDGT vehicles?

  20   A.  This is the component from a B type engine which is also

  21   used in the --

  22   Q.  In MDGT vehicles?

  23   A.  Yes, it is being used.

  24   Q.  And I believe for the record that is Government's Exhibit

  25   825.




                                                                2280



   1            MR. KARAS:  I have no further questions.  Mr. Myagi,

   2   if you would like to resume the witness stand.

   3            MR. RICCO:  Judge, can he stay there?

   4            THE COURT:  Yes, certainly.  Would you ask the

   5   witness to go back to the table.  Cross-examination by Mr.

   6   Ricco on behalf of defendant Odeh.

   7   CROSS-EXAMINATION

   8   BY MR. RICCO:

   9   Q.  Good morning, sir.  Many parts that we see here are of

  10   cast iron; isn't that correct?

  11   A.  Cast iron is only a portion of the displayed items.

  12   Q.  Yes, sir.  And other pieces are forged steel; isn't that

  13   correct?

  14   A.  Yes.

  15   Q.  The cast iron is used in the undercarriage of the vehicle

  16   so that it can withstand great weight; isn't that correct?

  17   A.  Although only cast iron part would be shown right there,

  18   yes, cast iron materials are down there.

  19   Q.  And this would be Government's Exhibit 827.

  20   A.  Yes.

  21   Q.  And other pieces that are here are forged steel; isn't

  22   that right?

  23   A.  Most appear to be that way but there are some which are

  24   already excluded in a board form.

  25   Q.  These materials are used so that they can withstand great




                                                                2281



   1   weight and pressure over a long time period?

   2   A.  Yes.

   3   Q.  The destruction that we see to these parts, for example, a

   4   car accident could not have caused this type of destruction;

   5   isn't that correct?

   6   A.  That's correct.

   7   Q.  This was caused from a powerful force; isn't that right?

   8   A.  That's what I figure.

   9   Q.  Right.  To get the crankshaft out of an engine, out of an

  10   engine block, takes a great amount of power and force; isn't

  11   that correct?

  12   A.  That's correct.

  13   Q.  The bed area of the truck, the Toyota truck, doesn't have

  14   a covering, right?

  15   A.  Could you explain that portion, the cover.

  16   Q.  The design of the truck has a flat bed which is made of

  17   wood, right?

  18   A.  Yes.

  19   Q.  Is the flat bed area covered?

  20   A.  Some have covers, others don't.

  21   Q.  Are you able to tell us whether or not this vehicle had a

  22   cover or not?

  23   A.  No, I am not able to.

  24   Q.  Because there were no parts recovered from the cover that

  25   Toyota makes that is present here; isn't that right?  I will




                                                                2282



   1   rephrase the question.

   2            Toyota makes some trucks with a cover, but those

   3   covers are used with a different type of material than the

   4   materials we see here on the table; isn't that right?

   5   A.  That is correct.

   6   Q.  What type of material is used for the cover on the Toyota

   7   truck?

   8   A.  There are so many different types of cover that I am not

   9   able to generalize.

  10   Q.  And I don't want you to.  But certainly the covers are not

  11   made from cast iron and the type of heavy material and metals

  12   that we see here.

  13   A.  That's correct.

  14            (Continued on next page)

  15

  16

  17

  18

  19

  20

  21

  22

  23

  24

  25




                                                                2283



   1            MR. RICCO:  I have no further questions.  Thank you

   2   very much.

   3            THE COURT:  Anything further of this witness?  Any

   4   redirect?

   5            MR. KARAS:  No, your Honor.  Thank you.

   6            THE COURT:  Thank you, sir.  We will take our

   7   mid-morning recess.

   8            (Witness excused)

   9            (Jury excused)

  10            THE COURT:  We will take a recess.

  11            (Recess)

  12            (Continued on next page)

  13            (In open court; jury present)

  14            THE COURT:  Ladies and gentlemen, I understand you

  15   had some questions and I got a message from the jury

  16   commissioner, Mr. Rogers, saying that he will see you at lunch

  17   tomorrow when he distributes checks and he will be able to

  18   answer those questions.  I don't know what they were, but they

  19   are not forgotten.

  20            The government may call it's next witness.

  21            MR. BUTLER:  Your Honor the government calls Said

  22   Salim Omar.

  23    SAID SALIM OMAR,

  24        called as a witness by the government,

  25        having been duly sworn, testified as follows:




                                                                2284



   1   DIRECT EXAMINATION

   2   BY MR. BUTLER:

   3   Q.  Mr. Omar, how old are you, sir?

   4   A.  I'm thirty-one years old.

   5   Q.  Where do you live?

   6   A.  In Mombasa, Kenya.

   7   Q.  And how are you employed?

   8   A.  I was employed in warehouse company in Mombasa.

   9   Q.  And when did you cease being employed in a warehouse

  10   company in Mombasa?

  11   A.  Last year, December.

  12   Q.  And were you employed there in 1998?

  13   A.  I was employed there as from 1993.

  14   Q.  And also in 1998?

  15   A.  Up to 2000.

  16   Q.  Are you involved in any other businesses?

  17   A.  Of course.

  18   Q.  What other business are you involved in?

  19   A.  Poultry farming.

  20   Q.  Were you involved in your poultry farming business in 1998

  21   as well?

  22   A.  As from 1996 to date.

  23   Q.  And did there come a time when you purchased a truck in

  24   connection with your poultry business?

  25   A.  Of course, yes.




                                                                2285



   1   Q.  And do you recall what kind of truck that was?

   2   A.  Yes.

   3   Q.  What kind of truck was it?

   4   A.  It was a Toyota Dyna truck.

   5   Q.  Approximately when did you purchase that truck?

   6   A.  It was early 1998, approximately May.

   7   Q.  Who did you purchase that truck from?

   8   A.  From Acca Insurance Company based in Mombasa.

   9   Q.  And could you just describe the truck for us, please?  For

  10   example, what color was the truck?

  11   A.  It was a beige color.

  12   Q.  And what did the back of the truck look like?

  13   A.  It was an open body truck with an open sides.

  14   Q.  And was it a flat bed truck in the rear?

  15   A.  It was a flat bed truck.

  16   Q.  What was the bed made out of?

  17   A.  It was made of wooden base, and sides were made of metal

  18   sheets.

  19   Q.  And how many tires were in the rear of the truck?

  20   A.  Four tiers.

  21   Q.  And how many tires were in the front of the truck?

  22   A.  Two tires.

  23   Q.  And what side of the truck was the steering wheel on?

  24   A.  Right-hand drive.

  25   Q.  And approximately how long was the bed of the truck?




                                                                2286



   1   A.  Not less than ten feet.

   2   Q.  Just explain to the jury briefly, if you can, what types

   3   of documents are exchanged when somebody buys a truck in

   4   Kenya?

   5   A.  You first make a document with the person the truck of

   6   possessing it from you.  Then they transfer from that the

   7   person normally signs.  The transfer form is normally taken to

   8   the registration office in Nairobi to change ownership of the

   9   truck to the person possessing the truck.

  10            MR. BUTLER:  Your Honor, may I approach?

  11            THE COURT:  Gentlemen.

  12   Q.  I put before you Mr. Omar what has been marked as

  13   Government Exhibits 583 A through D.  Do you recognize those

  14   documents marked Government Exhibits 583 A through D?

  15   A.  Yes, I do.

  16   Q.  And what are Government Exhibits 583A through D?

  17   A.  First one is a sale document, the second one is an

  18   insurance receipt and the third one is an inspection check

  19   form.

  20   Q.  You've only listed three.  Let's start first.  What's

  21   Government Exhibit 583A?

  22   A.  What's that?

  23   Q.  What is Government Exhibit 583A?

  24   A.  This one is a sale document.

  25   Q.  And what is Government Exhibit 583B?




                                                                2287



   1   A.  It's an insurance form, receipt.

   2   Q.  And what is Government Exhibit 583C?

   3   A.  An inspection form.

   4   Q.  And what is Government Exhibit 583D?

   5   A.  Sorry.  I couldn't see it here.  It's an inspection form.

   6   Q.  Were these documents something that you prepared in

   7   connection with your purchase of the vehicle?

   8   A.  Yes.

   9            MR. BUTLER:  Your Honor, I offer Government Exhibits

  10   583A through D at this time.

  11            MR. WILFORD:  No objection.

  12            THE COURT:  Received.

  13            (Government's Exhibits Government Exhibits 583A

  14   received in evidence)

  15            MR. BUTLER:  If we could just publish to the jury

  16   Government Exhibit 583A, please.

  17   Q.  Now looking at Government Exhibit 583A what date is listed

  18   as the purchase of the vehicle?

  19   A.  18 May '98.

  20   Q.  Going down the page, what is the make of the vehicle

  21   listed there?

  22   A.  It's a Toyota DYNA pickup.

  23   Q.  Is that consistent with your recollection of the truck

  24   that you purchased in May?

  25   A.  Yes, sir.




                                                                2288



   1   Q.  Now, looking at the chassis number, could you read off the

   2   chassis number for the jury there?

   3   A.  BU61-0001636.

   4   Q.  And what was the registration number of the vehicle?

   5   A.  KAG662B.

   6   Q.  And how much did you pay to purchase this vehicle?

   7   A.  240,000 Kenya shillings.

   8   Q.  Tell me what did you use this vehicle for?

   9   A.  I used it to, since I am a poultry farmer I used to carry

  10   the poultry feed from the manufacturing company to my farm.

  11   Q.  Did there come a time that you sold this truck?

  12   A.  Yes.

  13   Q.  And approximately when did you sell the truck?

  14   A.  Approximately one and a half to two months from the date I

  15   purchased the truck.

  16   Q.  So that would put it sometime in late June or early July,

  17   1998 approximately correct?

  18   A.  Yes.

  19   Q.  And who did you sell the truck to?

  20   A.  I sold it to Mr. Sheikh Ahmed Swedan.

  21   Q.  Who is Sheikh Ahmed Swedan?

  22   A.  He's a businessman in Mombasa.

  23   Q.  And did you know Mr. Sheikh Ahmed Swedan?

  24   A.  Yes.

  25   Q.  And how long did you know him for?




                                                                2289



   1   A.  I knew him for a long because he's just our neighbor.  He

   2   lives three blocks from my father's house.

   3   Q.  If we could just show the witness just for identification

   4   Government Exhibit 123, please.

   5            Do you recognize that photograph?

   6   A.  Yes.

   7   Q.  Who is depicted in that photograph?

   8   A.  Is Sheikh Ahmed Swedan.

   9            MR. BUTLER:  Your Honor, I would offer Government

  10   Exhibit 123 at this time.

  11            THE COURT:  Yes.  Received.

  12            (Government's Exhibit 123 received in evidence)

  13            MR. BUTLER:  Your Honor, at this point I think the

  14   parties would like it if the Court could read the stipulation

  15   to the jury.

  16            THE COURT:  Yes.  May I see counsel at the bench,

  17   please.

  18            (At the sidebar off the record)

  19            THE COURT:  Ladies and gentlemen, the parties have

  20   stipulated that the Sheikh Ahmed Swedan referred to by Mr.

  21   Omar in his testimony is not the Ahmed Sheikh associated with

  22   Mercy International relief agency who is referred to by the

  23   government witness L'Houssaine Kerchtou during his testimony.

  24            The full name of the Ahmed Sheikh referred to by Mr.

  25   Kherchtou is Ahmed Sheikh Adan, and he is known also as Ahmed




                                                                2290



   1   Tawil.  The real name of the Sheikh Ahmed Swedan referred to

   2   Mr. Omar is Sheikh Ahmed Salim Swedan and is also known as

   3   Sheikh Ahmed Swedan and Sheikh Bahamadi.

   4   Q.  Mr. Omar, I believe you testified that Ahmed Sheikh Swedan

   5   was a businessman in the Mombasa, correct?

   6   A.  Yes.

   7   Q.  Do you know what business he was involved in?

   8   A.  Transportation.

   9   Q.  And when you say transportation, what would he transport?

  10   A.  He used to transport cargos from the Mombasa port to some

  11   warehouses within Mombasa and sometimes up country.

  12   Q.  And what types of vehicles would he use to do that?

  13   A.  Long trucks, open vehicles.

  14   Q.  Did there come a time when Ahmed Sheikh Swedan appearance

  15   changed from how you previously knew him?

  16   A.  Yes, from the picture we see here he appeared changed.

  17   Q.  How did he change?

  18   A.  This time when he came to me he had long beard.  He put on

  19   a Pakistan way of clothing and he looked so religious.

  20   Q.  And when were you first contacted by Ahmed Sheikh Swedan

  21   about possibly selling the truck to him?

  22   A.  I cannot remember the date, but it was one afternoon where

  23   we had just left for afternoon prayers about to go to the

  24   office, he came to me and asked me if I would sell the truck

  25   to him.




                                                                2291



   1            Then I jokingly said that if you pay me $10,000 I can

   2   sell the truck to you.  I never expected that man to just

   3   agree with the price so easily as he did.  He just asked me to

   4   give him the key.  I gave him the key of the truck.  He went

   5   around one of the Mombasa streets to test the truck.  Then he

   6   came back to me and told me fine.  He wanted to pay me the

   7   $10,000, but I refused that $10,000.  I then asked him if he

   8   can pay that Kenya shilling.

   9   Q.  Approximately in 1998 approximately how many Kenyan

  10   shillings was $10,000?

  11   A.  Approximately 550,000 Kenya shillings.

  12   Q.  Did Ahmed Sheikh Swedan talk to you about any

  13   specifications that he needed for the truck?

  14   A.  Yes.  He first asked me what weight the truck could carry.

  15   I then told him I normally carry feed up to three tons to

  16   three and a half tons.  He then asked me if that weight on the

  17   truck if the truck could climb mountains.  I told him I live

  18   in Kilifi where it's so mountainous and I do it easily

  19   everyday.

  20   Q.  And did you eventually, did you agree to sell the truck to

  21   Mr. Swedan at that time?

  22   A.  Yes.

  23   Q.  And how were you paid?

  24   A.  I was paid cash.

  25   Q.  Who actually paid the money to whom?




                                                                2292



   1   A.  Ahmed Swedan because he wanted to pay me in dollars.  I

   2   then refused that money in dollars since I'm not used to the

   3   dollars currency.  I feared that it could be a fake some sort

   4   of fake dollars.  So I told him to go and change that into

   5   Kenya shillings and pay to my brother, because I was going to

   6   report to duty.

   7   Q.  Now, did you ever fill out any of the paperwork connected

   8   with the sale of the truck?

   9   A.  It was very late and I was in a hurry going back to the

  10   office.  So since Sheik just lives three blocks from my

  11   father's house I told him I'm going to make this agreement in

  12   my office, then we come and meet here in the evening so that

  13   we can have this agreement signed together with a transfer

  14   form so as to enable us to change the ownership of the truck.

  15   Q.  And did you give the keys to the truck to Sheikh Swedan?

  16   A.  Yes, he did take the keys.

  17   Q.  And did you ever see him again after that day?

  18   A.  Up to date I have never seen him.

  19   Q.  And did anyone ever come back to fill out the paperwork

  20   for the sale of the truck?

  21   A.  No one.

  22   Q.  Now, did you see the truck again?

  23   A.  Yes, I saw the truck two days later parked in front of a

  24   mosque where we normally pray.

  25   Q.  And what did the truck look like then?




                                                                2293



   1   A.  It was just as the same as I sold it to him.

   2   Q.  And did you see the truck again after that?

   3   A.  Yes.  Few days later I saw the truck on my way to my farm.

   4   I just came across the truck driving on my way of driving.

   5   Q.  And what did the truck look like at that time?

   6   A.  This time it looked different.

   7   Q.  How did it look different?

   8   A.  It was covered by metal sheets, covered fully behind, and

   9   the body was about one and a half, one to one and a half feet

  10   longer than the cabin.

  11   Q.  And so the entire back of the bed was covered now?

  12   A.  Totally covered.

  13   Q.  And when you say that the bed was bigger, was it higher or

  14   wider?

  15   A.  It was higher, not wider.

  16   Q.  Now, did you have any contact with anybody from Ahmed

  17   Sheikh Swedan's family after this sale of the truck?

  18   A.  Yes.  Some days later his brother send his son to my

  19   father to collect the log book.

  20   Q.  And what's the log book?

  21   A.  It's a legal document showing the ownership of the truck.

  22   Q.  And did that occur before or after the bombing of the

  23   American Embassy in Nairobi?

  24   A.  That occurred few days after the bombing.

  25            MR. BUTLER:  No further questions, your Honor.




                                                                2294



   1            MR. WILFORD:  May I, your Honor?

   2            THE COURT:  Yes.  Mr. Wilford on behalf of the

   3   defendant Odeh.

   4   CROSS-EXAMINATION

   5   BY MR. WILFORD:

   6   Q.  Good afternoon, Mr. Omar.

   7   A.  Good afternoon.

   8   Q.  How are you, sir?

   9   A.  All right.

  10   Q.  Now, Mr. Omar, the truck that you were talking about when

  11   you owned it in fact had holes in the bed so that a container

  12   could be placed on it, isn't that correct?

  13   A.  It's a very small truck that cannot carry containers.

  14   Q.  No.  Let me try to make myself clearer.

  15            The third time you saw the truck you indicated that

  16   it was completely enclosed the bed of the truck and that it

  17   was about an inch or two higher than the cab, is that correct?

  18   A.  That's correct.

  19   Q.  Now, that covering that was over the bed, when you owned

  20   the truck, the truck was equipped so that the covering could

  21   be placed on the bed, isn't that correct?

  22   A.  No, that is not correct.

  23   Q.  So it was just flat?

  24   A.  It was a flat with some side short about one foot, that

  25   short side.  I had made some holes on those sides so as to




                                                                2295



   1   have a metal frame cover.  In case of rain I used to put a

   2   tarpaulin to cover whatever I was carrying to my farm.

   3   Q.  So you yourself drilled in the holes so a covering of some

   4   sort could be placed on it?

   5   A.  Yes, of the framework.

   6   Q.  And the covering that you saw on the third time you saw

   7   the truck, after you sold it, you said it was metal?

   8   A.  Yes, metal.

   9   Q.  And there was no glass on it?

  10   A.  No.

  11   Q.  Did you see any doors on it?

  12   A.  No.  From behind?

  13   Q.  Yes.

  14   A.  Yes, I saw some doors.

  15   Q.  You saw doors?

  16   A.  Yes, there are two shutters.

  17            MR. WILFORD:  Thank you.

  18            THE COURT:  Anything further of this witness?


  19            MR. BUTLER:  No, your Honor.

  20            THE COURT:  Thank you.  You may step down.  Thank

  21   you.

  22            (Witness excused)

  23            MR. BUTLER:  The government calls to Tamarra Ratemo

  24   formerly Kipignor.

  25    TAMARRA RATEMO,




                                                                2296



   1        called as a witness by the government,

   2        having been duly sworn, testified as follows:)

   3   DIRECT EXAMINATION

   4   BY MR. BUTLER:

   5   Q.  Ms. Ratemo, you're doing it so far, but I just remind you

   6   if you keep your voice up and speak into the microphone so

   7   everybody can hear you.  Thank you.

   8            Where are you from?

   9   A.  I'm from Kenya.

  10   Q.  And where do you live?

  11   A.  I live in Nairobi.

  12   Q.  And how are you employed?

  13   A.  I work for the public service.

  14   Q.  And what branch of the public service do you work for?

  15   A.  I am a senior officer in the real estate section.

  16   Q.  Do you also earn income by leasing out real estate in

  17   Kenya?

  18   A.  Yes, I do.

  19   Q.  Are you familiar with a house known as number 43 Runda

  20   Estates in Nairobi?

  21   A.  Yes.

  22   Q.  Do you own that property?

  23   A.  Yes.

  24   Q.  How long have you owned that property?

  25   A.  Just over ten years now.




                                                                2297



   1   Q.  And about how far from Nairobi is the property?

   2   A.  15 kilometers.

   3            MR. BUTLER:  May I approach, your Honor?

   4            THE COURT:  Yes.

   5   Q.  I'd like to show you some photographs that have been

   6   marked as Government Exhibits 567A through G, and I'll just

   7   ask whether you recognize these photos.

   8   A.  Yes, I do.

   9   Q.  And what is depicted in those photographs?

  10   A.  Please repeat the question?

  11   Q.  What is depicted in those photographs?  Are those

  12   photographs of your house at 43?

  13   A.  Yes, is the front of the house.

  14   Q.  And each one of those photographs a fair and accurate

  15   depiction of your house at 43 Runda Estates?

  16   A.  Yes.

  17            MR. BUTLER:  I offer Government Exhibits 567A through

  18   G at this time, your Honor.

  19            (Government's Exhibits 567A through G received in

  20   evidence)

  21            MR. BUTLER:  If we could publish 567A to the jury,

  22   please.

  23   Q.  What is shown in 567A, Ms. Ratemo?

  24   A.  The front of the house, the front entrance.

  25   Q.  If you could tell the jury just approximately how big is




                                                                2298



   1   the house at 43 Runda Estates?

   2   A.  It's about ten rooms in all including the kitchen and the

   3   garage.

   4   Q.  How many bedrooms does the house have?

   5   A.  Four bedrooms.

   6   Q.  Where is the garage located?

   7   A.  Just before the entrance.

   8   Q.  Is the garage attached to the building or is it detached

   9   from the building?

  10   A.  Detached.

  11   Q.  Detached.  What's around the outside of the house at 43

  12   Runda Estates?

  13   A.  The front or the back?

  14   Q.  The front of the house.

  15   A.  The front is the garage to the left and then there is an

  16   entrance on the front is the kitchen.

  17   Q.  Before you enter the grounds what's at the front of the

  18   house?

  19   A.  The gate.

  20   Q.  Is there anything next to the gate?

  21   A.  There is a small security guard house.

  22   Q.  And is there anything that is next to the guard house?

  23   A.  The parking.

  24   Q.  Why don't we go to 567B.  What is shown in 567B?

  25   A.  That's the lounge.




                                                                2299



   1   Q.  Why don't we go to 567C.  What's shown in 567C?

   2   A.  That is the entrance gate from outside.

   3   Q.  And is there a wall attached to that gate?

   4   A.  Yes.  The whole house is surrounded by a perimeter wall.

   5   Q.  What can you see from outside the perimeter wall?

   6   A.  On this picture --

   7   Q.  Can you see into the house from outside the perimeter

   8   wall?

   9   A.  No, not much.

  10   Q.  And where does the front of the house face in relationship

  11   to the gate?

  12   A.  It's facing to the right.

  13   Q.  Is it on the same level as the gate or is it raised or

  14   down from the gate?

  15   A.  It's slightly down.

  16   Q.  Why don't we go to 567D.  What's shown in 567D,

  17   Ms. Ratemo?

  18   A.  That is the back of the house showing the veranda from the

  19   back.

  20   Q.  Let's go to 567E.  What's shown in 567E?

  21   A.  That's the inside of the yard between the kitchen and the

  22   domestic quarters.

  23   Q.  Is there, in the area inside is there like a courtyard

  24   area?

  25   A.  Yeah, that's a courtyard.  That's an open space between




                                                                2300



   1   the domestic an the kitchen.

   2   Q.  Could we go to 567F, please.  What's shown in 567F?

   3   A.  That's one view of the house from the back side behind,

   4   from the garden side.

   5   Q.  Let's go to 567G.  What's depicted in 567G?

   6   A.  Those are the two entrances of the garage.

   7            MR. BUTLER:  May I approach, your Honor?

   8            THE COURT:  Yes.

   9   Q.  I am going to show you what has been previously marked as

  10   Government Exhibit 582.

  11            I ask you to take a moment to look at 582, and I'll

  12   ask you whether that is a fair and accurate sketch of the

  13   layout of the ground floor of 43 Runda Estates?

  14   A.  That's correct.

  15            MR. BUTLER:  I would offer Government Exhibit 582 at

  16   this time, your Honor.

  17            THE COURT:  Received.

  18            (Government's Exhibit 582 received in evidence.

  19   Q.  If we could display Grand Jury Exhibit 582 to the jury.

  20   Now, if you could just briefly describe maybe starting at the

  21   garage area, what is depicted on this sketch?

  22            As you go through the garage where do you go to next?

  23   A.  From the garage there is a door to the open yard and from

  24   the yard you can enter directly to the kitchen.  It's one door

  25   there.  And from the kitchen you can go through.  There are




                                                                2301



   1   two doors in the kitchen, one to go to one room called the

   2   family room, and to the dining.  Down the hallway there's

   3   another door to the lounge.  And then at the end of it to the

   4   far right is the guest room.  And then in the open yard to the

   5   left there is two domestic servants.  So the total there eight

   6   rooms.

   7   Q.  The courtyard that you spoke about before, where is that

   8   located on the sketch?

   9   A.  Sorry?  The --

  10   Q.  The courtyard that you identified before on the

  11   photograph, where is that located on the sketch?

  12   A.  Between the double garage and the kitchen.

  13   Q.  And what is that area listed as on the diagram as the yard

  14   area?

  15   A.  It's called a yard.

  16   Q.  Now, were you renting the property at 43 Runda Estates

  17   back in early 1998?

  18   A.  Yes.

  19   Q.  In the beginning of 1998 who was your tenant?

  20   A.  There was a Mr. Bashir.

  21   Q.  And when did -- approximately when did Mr. Bashir begin

  22   renting the house at 43 Runda Estates?

  23   A.  In mid '96.

  24   Q.  And directing your attention to about mid -- I'm sorry

  25   withdrawn.




                                                                2302



   1            Did there come a time when Mr. Bashir stopped being

   2   your tenant?

   3   A.  Yes.

   4   Q.  And approximately when did that occur?

   5   A.  Mid-March.

   6   Q.  Of what year?

   7   A.  1998.

   8   Q.  And was there a telephone in the premises at 43 Runda

   9   Estates at this time?

  10   A.  Yes.

  11   Q.  What was the telephone number?

  12   A.  The number was 512430.

  13   Q.  Whose name was the telephone under at this time?

  14   A.  In the name of Mr. Bashir.

  15   Q.  Approximately how long had the phone been in the name of

  16   Mr. Bashir?

  17   A.  About one year.

  18   Q.  When Mr. Bashir decided to end his tenancy what, if

  19   anything, did you do about the telephone?

  20   A.  He went to the telephone company office and he wrote a

  21   letter to transfer the number to my name.

  22   Q.  Approximately how long does it take for that to actually

  23   happen after you request a telephone company to change it back

  24   to your name?

  25   A.  About nine months.




                                                                2303



   1   Q.  And was that ultimately done?

   2   A.  By that time, no.

   3   Q.  Eventually did the phone go back to your name?

   4   A.  Yes, it did.

   5   Q.  About how long after you went to the phone company?

   6   A.  About nine months.

   7   Q.  Now, drawing your attention to April, 1998 did there come

   8   a time when you were called by a potential tenant for 43 Runda

   9   Estates?

  10   A.  Yes.

  11   Q.  And who called you?

  12   A.  There was a Mr. Fazul Abdullah.

  13   Q.  And was anybody else on the phone with you at that time?

  14   A.  Yes, there was Mr. Sikander.

  15   Q.  And had you ever spoken to these people before?

  16   A.  No.

  17   Q.  Could you tell us about your conversation with Mr. Fazhul

  18   Abdallah and Mr. Sikander on that day?

  19   A.  They had seen the advert that the house was vacant so they

  20   called, they expressed their interest that they wanted to rent

  21   the house.

  22   Q.  And did you tell them how much it cost to rent the house

  23   at that time?

  24   A.  Yes, I told them the amount, but they wanted to, they

  25   thought it was too much.




                                                                2304



   1   Q.  How much were you charging to rent 43 Runda Estates at

   2   that time?

   3   A.  I was charging about 55,000 Kenya shillings.

   4   Q.  Was that per month?

   5   A.  That's per month, yeah.

   6   Q.  And what happened after that conversation?

   7   A.  They said that they thought about it and call me again.

   8   Q.  Did you see them again?

   9   A.  They called again about three two to three days.

  10   Q.  Who called?

  11   A.  I think it was Mr. Sikander because of the language.

  12   Q.  You had difficulty communicating with --

  13   A.  Fazhul could not, I couldn't understand him.

  14   Q.  And what was discussed during that telephone call?

  15   A.  That they had agreed to pay the amount that I requested,

  16   50,000.

  17   Q.  And did you see them again after this telephone

  18   conversation?

  19            THE COURT:  When you say "see again," had you seen

  20   these people?

  21            THE WITNESS:  No, I hadn't.

  22   Q.  I'm sorry.  Did you have any further contact with them

  23   after this telephone conversation?

  24   A.  No.  They called again.

  25   Q.  They called again?




                                                                2305



   1   A.  They were willing to take the house at that amount.  They

   2   this agreed on the phone 50,000.

   3   Q.  Just so we can be clear, you had your first telephone

   4   conversation, correct?

   5   A.  Yes.

   6   Q.  And then you spoke with Fazhul and Sikander, correct?

   7   A.  Yes.

   8   Q.  And then you had a second telephone conversation, correct?

   9   A.  Yes.

  10   Q.  And was it during the second telephone conversation that

  11   they agreed to pay the amount for the lease?

  12   A.  Yes.

  13   Q.  When is the next time that you had contact with Fazhul and

  14   Mr. Sikander?

  15   A.  During that second telephone conversation we made an

  16   appointment to meet at the house.

  17   Q.  And --

  18   A.  This it was two, three days later or I don't remember

  19   exactly.

  20   Q.  Did you eventually meet at the house?

  21   A.  Yes.

  22   Q.  And what happened at that meeting at the house?

  23   A.  I saw my prospective tenant, had asked them a few

  24   questions, asked him a few questions, and we agreed that we

  25   sign an agreement.




                                                                2306



   1   Q.  Did you sign the agreement at that meeting?

   2   A.  No.  We made another appointment.

   3   Q.  And who did you understand was going to be the actual

   4   tenant at 43 Runda Estates?

   5   A.  Mr. Fazhul.

   6   Q.  And how long did he want the lease for?

   7   A.  He wanted the house for a short length which was five to

   8   six months.

   9   Q.  And was there any discussion of who would actually sign

  10   the lease?

  11   A.  Yes.

  12   Q.  And who did you understand would actually sign the lease?

  13   A.  Mr. Sikander would.  Mr. Fazhul told me Mr. Sikander would

  14   sign the lease on his behalf because he was not a Kenya

  15   citizen.

  16   Q.  And did Mr. Fazhul tell you anything about why he needed

  17   such a large house?

  18   A.  Yes, he said he had a family and he had some business

  19   people who would be coming to visit frequently.

  20   Q.  And what kind of business people?

  21   A.  He said the kind of people that are dealing with, they are

  22   trading in gold and they would come from Dubai.

  23   Q.  I show you what has been admitted as Government Exhibit

  24   110 into evidence.  Do you recognize the person depicted in

  25   that photograph?




                                                                2307



   1   A.  Yes.

   2   Q.  Who is that?

   3   A.  Mr. Fazhul Abdallah.

   4   Q.  Now, during this meeting at 43 Runda Estates did you, was

   5   any money exchanged at that time?

   6   A.  No.

   7   Q.  And as a result of this meeting what did you do?

   8   A.  We made an agreement to meet, we agreed whereby the

   9   agreement would be signed and they would pay.

  10   Q.  How long after that meeting at 43 Runda was the next

  11   meeting supposed to take place?

  12   A.  It was within two to three days.

  13   Q.  Did that meeting occur?

  14   A.  Pardon me, please?

  15   Q.  Did you actually have that meeting?

  16   A.  Yes.

  17   Q.  Where did that meeting take place?

  18   A.  In my office.

  19   Q.  And who was at that meeting?

  20   A.  Mr. Sikander and Mr. Fazhul.

  21   Q.  And what took place at that meeting?

  22   A.  We signed the agreement and they paid 30 percent.

  23   Q.  And --

  24   A.  Two months deposit and one months rent.

  25   Q.  And how were you paid?




                                                                2308



   1   A.  He paid in cash.

   2   Q.  And in what, Kenya shillings?

   3   A.  Yes, Kenya shillings, yes.

   4   Q.  And during the course of the tenancy who paid the rent?

   5   A.  Mr. Fazhul.

   6   Q.  And how did he pay you?

   7   A.  In cash.

   8   Q.  And was that normal for you to be paid in cash?

   9   A.  I would say yes.

  10   Q.  Did Mr. Bashir pay you in cash?

  11   A.  No.  It was a company leased to the company, paid me by

  12   check.

  13   Q.  And how did you receive your rent from Mr. Bashir?

  14   A.  Through a company check.

  15            MR. BUTLER:  One moment.

  16            (Pause)

  17            Can I approach, your Honor?

  18            THE COURT:  Yes.

  19   Q.  I show you what has been marked as Government Exhibit 568.

  20   Do you recognize Government Exhibit 568?

  21   A.  Yes.

  22   Q.  What's Government Exhibit 568?

  23   A.  The agreement, the lease we signed.

  24   Q.  And if you turn to the last page of Government Exhibit 568

  25   does your signature appear there?




                                                                2309



   1   A.  Yes.

   2   Q.  And does anyone else's signature appear there?

   3   A.  Mr. Sikander.

   4            MR. BUTLER:  I would offer Government Exhibit 568 at

   5   this time, your Honor.

   6            THE COURT:  Received.

   7            (Government's Exhibit 568 received in evidence)

   8   Q.  Now, on the day that the lease was signed did Mr. Fazhul

   9   indicate when he would be moving in?

  10   A.  Indicated that he, he explained that he would move in

  11   immediately.

  12   Q.  And when was, what was the term of the lease for?

  13   A.  Six months.

  14   Q.  And beginning when?

  15   A.  The first day of May, 1998.

  16   Q.  And did Mr. Fazhul mention anything that he needed to do

  17   before he moved in?

  18   A.  Yes.  He said he wanted to go to Sudan to get his family

  19   to get his wife who needed to travel accompanied because of

  20   religious reasons.

  21   Q.  Now, did there come a time when you had some dealings with

  22   Mr. Fazhul regarding the telephone service at the house?

  23   A.  Yes.

  24   Q.  And what happened regarding the telephone service at the

  25   house?




                                                                2310



   1   A.  There was a phone in the house but he had problems ringing

   2   international.

   3   Q.  And why did he ever problems ringing internationally?

   4   A.  Because the international facility was not provided.

   5   Q.  What does somebody need to have in order to make an

   6   international call in Kenya at that time in 1998?

   7   A.  You needed, one needed special permission.  One needed to

   8   prove that you are the owner of the phone, and a special

   9   written permission from the telephone service company to be

  10   given authority to overseas.

  11   Q.  Were you contacted by Mr. Fazhul about this problem?

  12   A.  Yes.

  13   Q.  And what did you do as the result of that contact that you

  14   had from Mr. Fazhul about the problem with the international

  15   calling?

  16   A.  I went, collected him at the house, went to the telephone

  17   company office and authorized in writing to he be given that

  18   facility.

  19   Q.  And approximately when did that occur?

  20   A.  About mid May.  Yeah, about around the 20th something.

  21   Q.  And did Mr. Fazhul mention whether he had been able to

  22   make any international calls prior to your visit to the phone

  23   company?

  24   A.  Yes, he did.  He said he had talked to the post office,

  25   the local post office employee to allow him to call and --




                                                                2311



   1   Q.  How long did Fazhul Abdallah actually stay at the house at

   2   43 Runda Estates?

   3   A.  He stayed for three months.

   4   Q.  When did he leave the house at 43 Runda Estates?

   5   A.  He left on the 8th of August, '98.

   6   Q.  And how much contact did you have with him during this

   7   period of time?

   8   A.  I had about three or four, we contacted him when he would

   9   come to pay us, and then there was a visit to the house.

  10   Q.  Did there come a time when you met his wife and family?

  11   A.  Yes.

  12   Q.  When was that?

  13   A.  The first time I met the wife is when I went to fix the

  14   phone, because I went to the house and picked him up.  The

  15   second is when they made an unexpected visit to my house.

  16   Q.  And when did that unexpected visit to your house occur?

  17   A.  Sometime in I think June, can't remember.

  18   Q.  And who came to your house?

  19   A.  Mr. Fazhul came to my house with the wife and two

  20   children.

  21   Q.  And you had not been expecting him?

  22   A.  No, that is unexpected, and it was late at night, 8

  23   o'clock, 8 p.m.

  24   Q.  Had you ever given him your home address before?

  25   A.  No.




                                                                2312



   1   Q.  And did you ever find out how he knew where your home

   2   address was?

   3   A.  Yes, I did ask him how he came to know where I live and he

   4   said he was just within the district.

   5   Q.  And did they come inside the house?

   6   A.  Yes.

   7   Q.  And what happened once they got inside the house?

   8   A.  When they came in to the house I opened the door.  I led

   9   them to the lounge we were watching television.  And

  10   apparently -- my brother was there -- and the wife was dressed

  11   all in black including the eyes, and once she entered the

  12   lounge, she had to run away because my brother was there.

  13   Q.  And was there some conversation about where Fazhul was

  14   from during this visit?

  15   A.  Yes.  My brother did ask him where he came from and he

  16   said he came from Morocco, but according to my brother he

  17   thought he came from Yemen.

  18   Q.  What did Fazhul do, if anything, when your brother said he

  19   came from Yemen?

  20   A.  He was kind of caught in a surprise but he convinced him

  21   he came from Morocco.

  22   Q.  Now, did you see what type of car Fazhul was driving

  23   during the time of his visit to you?

  24   A.  Yes.

  25   Q.  And what type of car was that?




                                                                2313



   1   A.  He's driving a red car Mitsubishi old.

   2   Q.  How did you find out what kind of car he was driving?

   3   A.  This is because we escorted him out, I saw the car and in

   4   my yard I have security lights so I was able to see.  And he

   5   couldn't start the car, so we had to help him to push, and

   6   until the car started.

   7   Q.  And did you see him in that car on other occasions?

   8   A.  Yes.  Noticed that the car was around when I went to the

   9   telephone, the car was in the yard, in the yard at the house

  10   in Runda.

  11   Q.  Now, did there come a time when you took a trip to Europe

  12   during this period when Fazhul was renting the house at 43

  13   Runda Estates?

  14   A.  Yes.  Soon after we signed the agreement I traveled to

  15   Europe around the 10th of March.

  16   Q.  Where did you go in Europe?

  17   A.  I went to London.

  18   Q.  And did you mention to Fazhul that you were going to

  19   Europe?

  20   A.  Yes.

  21   Q.  And did he ask you for anything in connection with your

  22   trip?

  23   A.  He asked me if I could buy him a computer part.

  24   Q.  And did he give you anything in connection with that?

  25   A.  He gave me a copy of that part, that item he wanted.




                                                                2314



   1            THE COURT:  I didn't get that.  He asked you if you

   2   would buy a what?

   3            THE WITNESS:  A computer part.

   4            MR. BUTLER:  May I approach, your Honor?

   5            THE COURT:  Yes.

   6   Q.  I show he you what has been previously marked as

   7   Government Exhibit 586.  Do you recognize Government Exhibit

   8   586?

   9   A.  Yes, I do.

  10   Q.  What is that?

  11   A.  It's a copy of a Sharp adapter.

  12   Q.  How did you get that document?

  13   A.  He gave me the copy himself.

  14   Q.  Who gave that to you?

  15   A.  Mr. Fazhul.

  16            MR. BUTLER:  Offer Government Exhibit 586 at this

  17   time, your Honor.

  18            MR. BAUGH:  No objection.

  19            THE COURT:  Received.

  20            (Government's Exhibit 586 received in evidence)

  21   Q.  The handwriting that's on that document, whose handwriting

  22   is that?

  23   A.  At the bottom of the photocopy that's the handwriting of

  24   Mr. Fazhul.

  25   Q.  What does that handwriting say?




                                                                2315



   1   A.  He say is four pin.

   2   Q.  And the handwriting on the upper part of the document,

   3   whose handwriting is that?

   4   A.  That's mine.

   5   Q.  What does that say?

   6   A.  Adapter.

   7   Q.  Do you recall what particular part Fazhul was looking for?

   8   A.  Pardon?

   9   Q.  Do you recall what particular computer part Mr. Fazhul was

  10   asking you to get when you were in London everyone?

  11   A.  He told me it was an adapter for his computer.  That's

  12   what he told me.  That's why I wrote it in my handwriting to

  13   make sure, I get to know what it is.

  14   Q.  And did you actually pick up that item for him while you

  15   were in Europe?

  16   A.  No.

  17   Q.  Now, do you recall the day that the United States Embassy

  18   in Nairobi was bombed?

  19   A.  Yes, I do.

  20   Q.  And is there any particular reason why you remember that

  21   day?

  22   A.  Yes.

  23   Q.  Why is that?

  24   A.  I lost a very close relative.

  25   Q.  And who was that?




                                                                2316



   1   A.  Brother-in-law.

   2   Q.  And where was he at the time of the bombing?

   3   A.  He was an employee of the American Embassy.

   4   Q.  And did you play any role in trying to determine what

   5   happened to your brother-in-law during the day of the bombing?

   6   A.  Yes, I was communicating link because we were calling each

   7   other every thirty minutes to get to know who is where and

   8   what.

   9   Q.  And did there come a time on August 7, 1998 when you saw

  10   Fazhul Abdallah?

  11   A.  Yes, he came to my house that night around 8 p.m. Nairobi

  12   time.

  13   Q.  And was anyone with him?

  14   A.  Mr. Sikander was with him.

  15   Q.  What happened when Fazhul came to your house?

  16   A.  He came to tell me that he was vacating the house.

  17   Q.  And did he tell you why he was vacating the house?

  18   A.  Yes.  He told me his father-in-law has been very ill, had

  19   a terminal disease and therefore he have to go home.

  20   Q.  And what did you do after this meeting with Fazhul and

  21   Sikander on August 7, 1998?

  22   A.  We made an appointment to meet at the house.

  23   Q.  And when was that appointment for?

  24   A.  The next day.

  25   Q.  And did you actually meet Fazhul at the house the next




                                                                2317



   1   day?

   2   A.  Yes, he was at the house with Mr. Sikander.

   3   Q.  And what took place at the house on August 8, 1998?

   4   A.  We looked around the house to see what was missing or --

   5   original tenant you have to leave the house the way you

   6   occupied.  So I check the house and it all was fine.

   7   Q.  Was there any furniture in the house at that time?

   8   A.  No, none.

   9   Q.  Did you ever see any furniture in the house during the

  10   time Fazhul was renting the house?

  11   A.  There was no furniture at all.

  12   Q.  And after you checked the house to see if everything was

  13   okay, what happened after that?

  14   A.  He give me my key, he return the key back to me, and there

  15   was one key which was missing, so he told me to follow them

  16   towards town up to a place where they would give me the other

  17   key.  That's what I did.

  18   Q.  Did you have any agreement with regard to the security

  19   deposit?

  20   A.  Yes.

  21   Q.  What was that agreement?

  22   A.  The deposit which he left was to redecorate the house, and

  23   if, if there was more than required, I would give the balance

  24   to Mr. Sikander.

  25   Q.  When you say "redecorate," what exactly?




                                                                2318



   1   A.  To repaint.

   2   Q.  Did you see what kind of car Mr. Fazhul was driving that

   3   day?

   4   A.  Yes.

   5   Q.  What kind of car was that?

   6   A.  It was a pickup 1200 white car.

   7            MR. BUTLER:  One moment, your Honor.  No further

   8   questions, your Honor.

   9            THE COURT:  Anyone else?

  10            MR. SCHMIDT:  May I have a moment, your Honor?

  11            THE COURT:  Yes.

  12            (Pause)

  13   CROSS-EXAMINATION

  14   BY MR. SCHMIDT:

  15   Q.  Good afternoon.  In what language did you communicate with

  16   Mr. Fazhul?

  17   A.  In Swahili and a little French.

  18   Q.  Did you communicate with him at all in English?

  19   A.  Not much, not at all I can't remember.

  20   Q.  What language did you communicate with Mr. Sikander in?

  21   A.  English and Swahili.

  22            THE COURT:  Mr. Schmidt --

  23            MR. SCHMIDT:  Two minutes, that's all.

  24   Q.  The time in August 8 when they gave up the key, was any

  25   other person with Mr. Fazhul at that time?




                                                                2319



   1   A.  Yes, Mr. Sikander was with him.

   2   Q.  Was there a woman with him as well?

   3   A.  No.

   4   Q.  Somebody's sister there?

   5   A.  Sorry?

   6   Q.  Was somebody's sister there?

   7   A.  Not where they give me the key, no.

   8   Q.  Did you meet Mr. Sikander's, one of Mr. Sikander's sisters

   9   at any time?

  10   A.  Yes.

  11   Q.  When was that?

  12   A.  The first time they came to see the house.

  13   Q.  What language -- did you talk with her at all?

  14   A.  I did spoke English, the sister of Sikander.

  15   Q.  Do you recall her name?

  16   A.  No.

  17            MR. SCHMIDT:  I have no further questions.

  18            THE COURT:  Anything further of this witness?

  19            MR. BUTLER:  No.

  20            THE COURT:  Any redirect?

  21            Thank you ma'am.  You may step down.

  22            (Witness excused)

  23            THE COURT:  The government may call the next witness.

  24            MR. KARAS:  Your Honor, the government calls Ron

  25   Kelly.




                                                                2320



   1    RONALD L. KELLY,

   2        called as a witness by the government,

   3        having been duly sworn, testified as follows:

   4   DIRECT EXAMINATION

   5   BY MR. KARAS:

   6   Q.  Good afternoon, sir.  Can you tell us how you're employed?