19 March 2001
Source: Digital file from the Court Reporters Office, Southern District of
New York; (212) 805-0300.
This is the transcript of Day 19 of the trial, 19 March 2001.
See other transcripts: http://cryptome.org/usa-v-ubl-dt.htm
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1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
2 ------------------------------x
3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
4 v. S(7) 98 Cr. 1023
5 USAMA BIN LADEN, et al.,
6 Defendants.
7 ------------------------------x
8
New York, N.Y.
9 March 19, 2001
10:00 a.m.
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12 Before:
13 HON. LEONARD B. SAND,
14 District Judge
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1 APPEARANCES
2 MARY JO WHITE
United States Attorney for the
3 Southern District of New York
BY: PATRICK FITZGERALD
4 KENNETH KARAS
PAUL BUTLER
5 Assistant United States Attorneys
6
ANTHONY L. RICCO
7 EDWARD D. WILFORD
CARL J. HERMAN
8 SANDRA A. BABCOCK
Attorneys for defendant Mohamed Sadeek Odeh
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FREDRICK H. COHN
10 DAVID P. BAUGH
LAURA GASIOROWSKI
11 Attorneys for defendant Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-'Owhali
12 DAVID STERN
DAVID RUHNKE
13 Attorneys for defendant Khalfan Khamis Mohamed
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SAM A. SCHMIDT
15 JOSHUA DRATEL
KRISTIAN K. LARSEN
16 Attorneys for defendant Wadih El Hage
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1 (Pages 2698-2706 sealed)
2 (In open court; jury present)
3 THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I am
4 sorry to say that our luck has run out and I am afraid we have
5 lost juror 1254, the third alternate, where you see the empty
6 seat. The marshals received a telephone call at 3:00 a.m.
7 this morning, indicating that she had been taken to the
8 hospital. I don't know exactly why. Perhaps some of you may
9 know. In any event, she will not be with us for the balance
10 of the trial, and I am sure we all wish her a speedy recovery.
11 One other inquiry since we last raised the issue.
12 Has anybody heard anything or watched or read anything with
13 respect to this trial or with respect to anybody related to
14 this trial?
15 Very well. I understand that the next order of
16 business is a stipulation.
17 MR. RUHNKE: Yes, your Honor, two oral stipulations,
18 very briefly.
19 If called as witnesses, special agents of the FBI
20 would testify that they interviewed Abdallah Hamisi in Dar es
21 Salaam in the fall of 1998 and, at that time, Mr. Hamisi told
22 the agents that he had known Khalfan Mohamed since 1988.
23 2. If called as witnesses, special agents of the FBI
24 would testify that they interviewed Abuwadih Ahmed Salum in
25 Dar es Salaam in the fall of 1998, and at that time Mr. Salum
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1 told the agents that he had seen Khalfan Mohamed working as a
2 conductor on a town bus.
3 Those are the stipulations.
4 MR. FITZGERALD: Judge, the government now calls
5 Special Agent Nanette Schumaker, S-C-H-U-M-A-K-E-R.
6 NANETTE SCHUMAKER,
7 called as a witness by the government,
8 having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
9 (Continued on next page)
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Schumaker - direct
1 DIRECT EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. FITZGERALD:
3 Q. Can you tell the jury how you are employed.
4 A. I am a special agent with the FBI.
5 Q. For how long have you been an FBI agent?
6 A. Nine years.
7 Q. During that time have you worked on an ERT or Evidence
8 Response Team?
9 A. Yes, sir, I have.
10 Q. For how long have you served on an Evidence Response Team?
11 A. Five years.
12 Q. Let me direct your attention to October of 1998. Did
13 there come a time when you were deployed to Dar es Salaam,
14 Tanzania?
15 A. Yes. In early October 1998 I was actually deployed to
16 Nairobi, Kenya, and then I was asked on the 20th of October to
17 travel the next day to Dar es Salaam, Tanzania.
18 Q. Once you traveled to Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, what was
19 your assignment?
20 A. My assignment was actually to be the team leader of the
21 search of 213 Ilala.
22 Q. Can you tell the jury when the search of 213 Ilala began?
23 A. We started approximately on the morning of October 22,
24 1998.
25 Q. Can you tell the jury when the search of 213 Allah
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Schumaker - direct
1 concluded.
2 A. It concluded on the afternoon of October 24.
3 Q. Did the search cover three days?
4 A. Yes, sir, it covered three full days.
5 Q. Can you tell the jury what procedure you followed when you
6 arrived at the scene of 213 Ilala.
7 A. The first procedure when we got there was to what we call
8 render the location safe, and that involved sending two FBI
9 bomb techs as well as, OED explosive ordnance specialists from
10 Tanzania to go into the compound and make sure that it was
11 safe for everyone else to enter.
12 Q. Did they do that that day?
13 A. Yes, sir, they did.
14 Q. Did they find anything?
15 A. They found a detonator, a very small item on the window
16 sill of the west side of the compound, house actually.
17 Q. What happened after this protective sweep of the premises
18 at 213 Ilala?
19 A. After the sweep, Miss Frances Rivera, our lead
20 photographer, and myself started doing photographs of the
21 outside of the compound, not inside, but just outside the
22 compound.
23 Q. What did do you after you photographed the outside of the
24 compound?
25 A. After photographing the outside of the compound, we went
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Schumaker - direct
1 inside with Kendrick Williams, the lead bomb tech, to recover
2 the bomb detonator. He actually recovered it but we
3 photographed it prior to recovery.
4 Q. After recovering the detonator, what happened next?
5 A. They rendered it fully safe. Then myself and Agent Rivera
6 went in to begin swabbing inside the house.
7 Q. How much of the day did you spend swabbing the inside of
8 the house?
9 A. Starting with putting the Tyvex suits on and everything
10 else, it took maybe an hour, hour and a half to complete the
11 whole process.
12 Q. What did you do after that?
13 A. After that, it was clear to go inside the house and
14 Miss Rivera and I photographed the interior of the house,
15 while outside Mr. Hathaway, Agent Hathaway, who is the only
16 other ERT trained individual on the search, started locating
17 and tagging items of potential evidence within the compound.
18 Q. Can you describe to the jury what you would do, what you
19 mean by tagging items of potential evidence.
20 A. We have little yellow tags that we place on the ground by
21 something that we think might be evidentiary, and we can go
22 back later, and we number each item, we photograph it, and
23 then we lift it and put it either in a plastic bag or paper
24 bag.
25 Q. Let me approach you with what have been premarked
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Schumaker - direct
1 Government's Exhibits 1351A through J and ask you to take a
2 look at these items and see if you recognize what they are.
3 A. Yes. 1351A is a photograph of the outside of the
4 compound, I believe on the outside.
5 Q. If you could stop for a moment. They are not admitted in
6 evidence. If you could look at all of them and tell us
7 whether or not they are fair and accurate pictures of the
8 things you saw that day when you did the search of 213 Ilala.
9 A. Yes, sir, they are all photographs that I was a part of.
10 MR. FITZGERALD: Your Honor, I offer 1351A through J.
11 THE COURT: Received.
12 (Government's Exhibits 1351A through 1351J received
13 in evidence)
14 Q. If we could display 1351A to the jury, could you tell us
15 what is depicted there.
16 A. That is a picture of the outside of the compound, on the
17 outside.
18 Q. If we could move to 1351B.
19 A. Yes. That is the east side, outside the perimeter of the
20 compound.
21 Q. 1351C.
22 A. That's actually inside the compound. It's a picture of
23 the outside of the house on the south side.
24 Q. Moving to 1351D.
25 A. It's behind the house, but within the compound there is a
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Schumaker - direct
1 row of I think six rooms and this reflects those rooms.
2 Q. 1351E.
3 A. Again, that's within the compound but it is the west side
4 of the house.
5 Q. And 1351F.
6 A. Still the west side of the house, from a different angle
7 within the compound.
8 Q. Do you notice whether any of the yellow-tagged items are
9 within the picture as you see it now?
10 A. Not this one, no, sir.
11 Q. Let me show you 1351G. What is that?
12 A. This is within the compound. It is the west side of the
13 house and the little yellow tags are what we would have put
14 down to mark items that needed to be retrieved later.
15 Q. 1351H?
16 A. I believe this is the north side of the compound behind
17 the house. I believe it is what we called the pit.
18 Q. We will come back to the pit in a moment.
19 A. OK.
20 Q. Do you see an item in the lower left corner of that
21 picture?
22 A. A couple items. There is a broom or whisk, and there is a
23 long metal piece.
24 Q. Moving to 1351I, can you tell us what that is.
25 A. Yes, sir, it is the west side of the house, a little
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Schumaker - direct
1 closer view of the window sill, and I believe this is where
2 Agent Williams found the detonator.
3 Q. Moving to 1351J.
4 A. This is a closeup of the detonator on the window sill
5 before Agent Williams retrieved it.
6 Q. Let me approach you with what has been premarked for
7 identification as Government's Exhibit 1352. I ask you to
8 take a look at Government's Exhibit 1352 and tell us if you
9 recognize what that is?
10 A. Yes, sir, I do.
11 Q. What is that?
12 A. It is a sketch of the entire compound, including the house
13 and the back six rooms.
14 Q. Is that a fair and accurate sketch of what the compound
15 looked like on the day that you were searching it?
16 A. Yes, sir, it is.
17 MR. FITZGERALD: I would offer 1352, your Honor.
18 THE COURT: Received.
19 (Government's Exhibit 1352 received in evidence)
20 Q. If we could display 1352 for the jury and counsel. If you
21 could, using the sketch, describe how the compound is laid
22 out.
23 A. As you can see, the primary entrance to enter and exit the
24 compound was on the east side, the singular little door there.
25 On the outside over to the left, where it says paved surface,
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Schumaker - direct
1 there were two large doors that were locked. We could not get
2 through the lock and we didn't have a key. In the back was
3 the garbage pit with the trees, and then the back six rooms.
4 Q. During the time that you conducted the search, was there
5 anyone present besides American and Tanzanian officials?
6 A. Yes, sir. According to Tanzanian law, any time a search
7 is conducted by the Tanzanian law enforcement authorities, a
8 witness, a civilian witness must be present, and because we
9 were working under Tanzanian law we followed this.
10 Q. How many witnesses were actually present in the course of
11 the three days?
12 A. There were actually two. One was called the village
13 elder, someone appointed or elected by the neighborhood there
14 surrounding 213 Ilala.
15 Q. Let me approach you with what has been marked 1351K and
16 1351L. Look at those items and tell us whether or not they
17 are fair and accurate photographs of things you saw on the
18 days that you conducted the search.
19 A. Yes, sir, they are.
20 MR. FITZGERALD: Your Honor, I would offer 1351K and
21 L.
22 THE COURT: Yes, received.
23 (Government's Exhibits 1351K and 1351L received in
24 evidence)
25 Q. Would you tell the jury, after displaying to the jury
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Schumaker - direct
1 1351K, what is depicted in that photograph.
2 A. As you can see, it is a singular sink with a small shelf
3 to the left that was found in room I, noted on the sketch.
4 Q. And you mentioned room 5. Would that be one of the rooms
5 outside the building?
6 A. I am sorry, I as in India. It was inside the main house.
7 Q. Can you tell us what is in 1351L.
8 A. You can see it is just a close-up view of the same sink
9 and you have a better view of the shelf.
10 Q. Can you tell us what you did on the second day of your
11 search.
12 A. The second day of search we continued searching the
13 outside of the compound, which again would have been Agent
14 D.J. Hathaway and a couple other agents. Inside the house,
15 myself and Agent Rivera started dusting for latent
16 fingerprints and, towards the end of the day, photographing
17 those fingerprints. Outside the compound, it was on the
18 second day that Agent Williams discovered what we know as the
19 garbage pit.
20 Q. Can you explain what the garbage pit was?
21 A. It was an area on the north side of the compound that
22 looked like it had been disturbed. It wasn't flat and
23 undisturbed like everything else. I think it is the custom in
24 Tanzania to bury garbage. So we deemed it prudent to dig that
25 out and see what items of significance we could gather. That
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Schumaker - direct
1 was started on the second day.
2 Q. Did you gather any items inside the house on the second
3 day?
4 A. Yes, we found several items of evidence that we
5 photographed, identified, and lifted.
6 Q. Do you recall any particular ones that were taken that
7 day?
8 A. Inside the house the main things were two or three brooms
9 and then the items from 1351L, a couple razors, a glass
10 bottle. I believe that was primarily it.
11 Q. What happened on the third day of the search?
12 A. The third day of the search we were wrapping up inside the
13 house, finishing up the photographs and actually lifting the
14 latent fingerprints, which took a good part of the morning.
15 Outside the house we continued searching the pit. We actually
16 sifted the mud. Agent Hathaway and a couple other agents
17 started searching the back six rooms. They conducted
18 swabbings of the rooms, dusted for fingerprints, then
19 photographed and lifted the fingerprints.
20 Q. In total, how many items did you recover during the
21 three-day search?
22 A. It was a total of 172 items of evidence, plus the one
23 detonator, for a total of 173.
24 Q. Let me approach you with a subset of those items and I
25 will show you what is marked for identification as 1355,
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Schumaker - direct
1 1357A, B and C, 1358, and 1359. Actually, if you could tell
2 us first what 1355 is.
3 A. 1355 is the detonator that we found on the window sill.
4 (Continued on next page)
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Schumaker - direct
1 Q. Let me approach you with 1357A, B and C. Can you tell the
2 jury what these items are?
3 A. 1357A, B and C are all three brooms or whisks that we
4 recovered from inside the main house.
5 Q. Looking at Government Exhibit 1358 could you tell the jury
6 what that is?
7 A. 1358 is the gold razor that we found on the sink in room I
8 within the house.
9 Q. 1359, can you tell the jury what that is?
10 A. 1359 is a bottle. I'm not sure what the substance is, but
11 we found it on the shelving to the left of the sink in Room I.
12 Q. Then I will approach with you 1363, 1370, 1371, 1373
13 through 1378. Starting with 1363, I think is the first item I
14 gave you, can you tell us what that item is?
15 A. It looks like a concrete bag.
16 Q. Was that recovered in the search as well?
17 A. Yes, sir, it was.
18 Q. And as to these items did you prepare and work with others
19 to prepare and review an evidence recovery log that would list
20 all of the items that were recovered during the three days?
21 A. Yes, sir, throughout the search every item is logged on
22 the recovery log as to where the item was found, and who
23 recovered it, and there was on that log.
24 Q. Prior to coming to court today did you look at the various
25 exhibits and verify that they were on the log?
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Schumaker - direct
1 A. Yes, sir, I did.
2 Q. And do you remember the exhibits that contained your
3 initials as well?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Can you tell us what 1370 is?
6 A. It looks like a Portland cement bag that we marked as an
7 item of evidence.
8 Q. Will you look at 1371.
9 A. 1371 is a rag.
10 Q. Will you look at 1373 through 1375, those three items
11 next?
12 A. Yes, sir, 1373 is a newspaper. 1374 is a brown twine or
13 string. 1375 is a grouping of wires, assorted sizes and
14 shapes. And 1378 looks like a vacuum sweeper.
15 Q. Will you check the number. Is that 1378 or 77?
16 A. I'm sorry that was 77, excuse me. 1378 is a small piece
17 of aluminum foil.
18 Q. Were all those items recovered during the course of the
19 search at 213 Ilala?
20 A. Yes, sir, they were.
21 Q. Let me approach you with 1376. I ask you to take a look
22 at that.
23 A. Yes, sir. This is a large piece of metal that was
24 recovered within our search.
25 Q. Let me approach you what has been marked as Government
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Schumaker - direct
1 Exhibits 1356, 1360, 1361 and 1362. Can you tell us first
2 what 1356 is?
3 A. 1356 is a small piece of red wire that was found on the
4 22nd of October just outside the house within the compound.
5 Q. 1360?
6 A. 1360 is a brown cardboard box which appears some kind of a
7 letter or piece of paper with handwriting on it.
8 Q. At the time you recovered it, do you know if the letter
9 was visible within the box?
10 A. No, sir, it was not. All we could see was just the box.
11 It was folded together.
12 Q. Next exhibit would be 1361.
13 A. 1361 appears to be a small piece of aluminum foil that was
14 recovered on the 23rd of October.
15 Q. And 1362?
16 A. 1362 is a piece of newspaper with nonEnglish writing on
17 it.
18 Q. Were all those items recovered over the course of the
19 three days at 213 Ilala?
20 A. Yes, sir, they were.
21 Q. Let me approach you now with exhibits 1364 through 1369
22 and then 1372. Can you tell us first what 1364 is?
23 A. 1364 is some kind of a round cardboard appearing object.
24 Q. And 1365?
25 A. 1365 is the top of some kind of a lid, the lid to a can I
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Schumaker - direct
1 guess.
2 Q. 1366?
3 A. 1366 is a small piece of paper with some sort of writing
4 on it or print.
5 Q. 1367?
6 A. 1367 appears to be a small piece of black tape.
7 Q. 1368?
8 A. 1368 is a series of Q tips.
9 Q. 1369?
10 A. 1369 is another piece of newspaper.
11 Q. 1372 which is to your right?
12 A. 1372 is a bag, silver colored bag, chemical bag I believe
13 it says.
14 Q. And were items 1364 through 69 and 1372 additional items
15 that were recovered during the search of 213 Ilala?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. And, finally, let me approach you with four exhibits, 1379
18 through 1382. Looking at 1379 can you tell us what that item
19 is?
20 A. 1379 is a series of glass vials with single Q tip swabs in
21 them that would have been taken as swabbings.
22 Q. And 1380?
23 A. Again, it's a series of glass vials with single Q tip
24 swabs that would represent swabbings taken from the residence.
25 Q. And 1381?
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Schumaker - direct
1 A. Again, it's a series of glass vials with single Q tip
2 swabs.
3 Q. 1382?
4 A. Again, it's a series of glass vials with single cotton
5 balls.
6 Q. And with regard to 1379 and 1381 would those be control
7 swabbings?
8 A. I would have to reflect to the log to see. 1379 and 1381?
9 Q. Yes.
10 A. Yes. 1379 appears to be the swabbing taken before
11 swabbing inside of the house.
12 MR. FITZGERALD: Let the record reflect, your Honor,
13 that the witness was shown the recovery log for that date and
14 I shall put the 3500 number on the record at the break.
15 THE COURT: Very well.
16 A. I believe 1381 is the control swabbings from the back six
17 rooms.
18 MR. FITZGERALD: Your Honor, at this time the
19 government would offer the foregoing exhibits 1355, 1375A
20 through C; 1358, 59, 63, 70, 71, 73 through 78; 1356, 60 to
21 62, and 64 to 69, 72 and 1364, 1372 and 1379 through 1382.
22 THE COURT: Received.
23 (Government's Exhibits 1355, 1375A through C; 1358,
24 59, 63, 70, 71, 73 through 78; 1356, 60 to 62, and 64 to 69,
25 72 and 1364, 1372 and 1379 through 1382 received in evidence)
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Schumaker - cross/Ruhnke
1 MR. FITZGERALD: I have no further questions.
2 THE COURT: Mr. Ruhnke on behalf of defendant KK
3 Mohamed.
4 CROSS-EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. RUHNKE:
6 Q. Good morning.
7 A. Good morning.
8 Q. You testified that you originally traveled to Kenya, is
9 that correct?
10 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
11 Q. When did you arrive in Nairobi?
12 A. It was on the 21st, sometime in the morning we took a
13 flight from Nairobi.
14 Q. From Nairobi to Dar es Salaam?
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 Q. And that's a relatively short flight, hour and a half or
17 so from Nairobi to Dar es Salaam?
18 A. No, not necessary less because we flew through another
19 area. It took awhile. We didn't get into Dar es Salaam, it
20 was after lunch I believe.
21 Q. While you were in Dar es Salaam, did you have occasion to
22 visit the scene of the explosion?
23 A. I believe someone drove us by there, but that was the
24 extent of it.
25 Q. And you conducted this search in Ilala, Dar es Salaam,
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Schumaker - cross/Ruhnke
1 correct?
2 A. Yes, sir.
3 Q. The house number 113 in Ilala, can you describe the
4 general location, what the surrounding neighborhood was like?
5 A. It would be pretty tough. I mean I was only there for
6 three days. I couldn't really. It's been a long time since I
7 was there. I know there were houses surrounding it.
8 Q. And to get to the particular house, 213 Ilala, do you
9 recall that you had to leave a relatively main road, paved
10 road and follow it various roads, essentially dirt roads back
11 and forth to get the actual location?
12 A. Yes, sir, I believe that's correct.
13 Q. Took five maybe ten minutes to get from the main road into
14 the house itself?
15 A. Maybe five minutes, yes.
16 Q. Do you recall whether or not it was the rainy season when
17 you were there?
18 A. No, it was extremely hot.
19 Q. And do you recall whether the roads were dry that you
20 traveled on as you cut back to the house?
21 A. I don't recall. They were dirt roads, but I don't recall.
22 Oh, actually I take that back. When we started the search on
23 the 22nd I remember them saying that there had been torrential
24 downpours the evening before.
25 Q. Do you remember that the name of the paved road that you
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Schumaker - cross/Ruhnke
1 left to get back to the house at 213 Ilala was you Huru Road?
2 A. No, sir. I really couldn't tell you any other names of
3 the roads.
4 Q. Do you have happen to remember that the area in which the
5 embassy was located is a section of Dar es Salam which is on
6 the Indian Ocean called Oyster Bay? Do you remember that?
7 A. I do recall that the embassy was by the Indian Ocean, yes.
8 Q. Did you ever have occasion to travel from the address or
9 the house at 213 Ilala through Dar es Salaam to the embassy?
10 A. Not directly, no, because I was not staying at a hotel
11 near the embassy. I was staying somewhere else and again
12 someone else was driving, so I was not paying attention to
13 where I went.
14 Q. In terms of someone else driving, how would you describe
15 the traffic conditions in downtown Dar es Salaam?
16 A. Not as bad as Manhattan.
17 Q. Chaotic come to mind?
18 A. I'm sorry?
19 Q. Sort of chaotic, lots of cars, lots of people on the
20 street selling things?
21 A. I guess certain portions of it were, but, again, even not
22 as much as maybe Nairobi. I don't recall it being the traffic
23 problem that Nairobi was.
24 MR. RUHNKE: Thank you, agent. No more questions.
25 THE COURT: Anything further of this witness?
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Foster - direct
1 MR. FITZGERALD: No.
2 THE COURT: You may step down.
3 (Witness excused)
4 The government may call the next witness.
5 MR. FITZGERALD: Government calls Alisa Foster.
6 ALISA MARTIN FOSTER,
7 called as a witness by the government,
8 having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
9 DIRECT EXAMINATION
10 BY MR. FITZGERALD:
11 Q. Good morning, agent.
12 A. Good morning.
13 Q. Agent Foster, you testified here last week, correct?
14 A. Yes, I did.
15 Q. You testified about a search in Nairobi and a search in
16 the Commos Islands?
17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Did there come a time in the summer or fall of 1998 when
19 you were deployed to Dar es Salaam Tanzania?
20 A. Yes, sir.
21 Q. Will you tell the jury when it was that you were deployed
22 to Dar es Salaam?
23 A. In September 10th I was deployed to Dar es Salaam to
24 search a white Suzuki truck.
25 Q. What day did you actually conduct the search?
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Foster - direct
1 A. September 11, the next day.
2 Q. Let me approach you with what has been premarked as
3 Government Exhibits 1410A through D, and 1410F, 1410A through
4 F. Now, first looking at 1410A to D, are those fair and
5 accurate pictures of the vehicle you searched that day?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 MR. FITZGERALD: I would offer Government Exhibits
8 1410A through D.
9 MR. RUHNKE: No objection.
10 THE COURT: Received.
11 (Government's Exhibits 1410A through D received in
12 evidence)
13 MR. FITZGERALD: If we could display 141 A.
14 Agent Foster, can you tell jury what that is?
15 A. I'm sorry?
16 Q. Can you tell the jury what that is a picture of?
17 A. That's a picture of the white Suzuki truck that I searched
18 on September 11 in Dar es Salaam.
19 Q. Let me just flip through 1410B, C and D.
20 A. That's the side-view of the same truck.
21 Q. That's a view of the front inside of the white truck?
22 A. That is the back seat of the Suzuki.
23 Q. Now, did there come time when you did something as part of
24 your search duties with regard to the white Suzuki truck?
25 A. Yes, sir.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
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13J1BIN2
Foster - direct
1 Q. What did you do?
2 A. I swabbed the vehicle for explosive residue.
3 Q. Did you swab the inside or the outside?
4 A. The inside. The dash, the turn signal between the seats
5 the back seats, the lining of the roof interior.
6 Q. The places that you searched, are they depicted on 1410E
7 and F?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 MR. FITZGERALD: Your Honor, I would offer 1410E and
10 F?
11 THE COURT: Received.
12 (Government's Exhibits 1410E and F received in
13 evidence)
14 MR. FITZGERALD: If we could display 1410E.
15 Is this a blank grid for this search?
16 A. Yes, sir, it is.
17 MR. FITZGERALD: If we can show 1410F.
18 What's on 1410F?
19 A. That is, it's the same set but there are numbers where
20 evidence swabbings and also other evidence was taken from the
21 vehicle.
22 Q. Let me approach you with what has been premarked as 1411A
23 and B. If you could look at 1411A first. Tell us if you
24 recognize what the items of that are contained within 1411A?
25 A. Yes, I do.
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13J1BIN2
Foster - direct
1 Q. What are they?
2 A. These are swabbings taken from the Suzuki, different areas
3 of the Suzuki.
4 Q. And prior to coming to court today have you had a chance
5 to look at those swabbings and compare them with the evidence
6 recovery log?
7 A. Yes, sir, I did.
8 Q. If you could look at 1411B. Tell us if you recognize
9 what's contained in that exhibit?
10 A. Yes, sir, I do.
11 Q. What's contained in 1411B?
12 A. The control swabs.
13 Q. Again, did you have a chance to look at those items in
14 that exhibit before coming to court and compare them with the
15 evidence recovery log?
16 A. Yes, sir, I did and they match.
17 MR. FITZGERALD: Your Honor, the government would
18 offer 1411A and B.
19 THE COURT: Received.
20 (Government's Exhibits 1411A and B received in
21 evidence)
22 MR. FITZGERALD: I have no further questions.
23 MR. RUHNKE: No questions.
24 THE COURT: Thank you. You may step down.
25 (Witness excused)
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Pierce - direct
1 MR. FITZGERALD: The government calls Special Agent
2 Andrew Pierce.
3 ANDREW PIERCE,
4 called as a witness by the government,
5 having been duly sworn, testified as follows:.
6 DIRECT EXAMINATION
7 BY MR. FITZGERALD:
8 Q. Mr. Pierce, can you tell the jury what you do for a
9 living?
10 A. I'm a Special Agent with the FBI.
11 Q. Would you just keep your voice up a little bit, or just
12 speak closer to the microphone.
13 How long have you been an FBI agent?
14 A. A little over four years.
15 Q. To what office are you assigned?
16 A. The Washington field office.
17 Q. Did there come a time in September of 1998 when you were
18 deployed to Dar es Salaam Tanzania?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Did there come a time when you participated in a search on
21 September 11 of 1998?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. What was the search that you participated in?
24 A. It was a search of a Suzuki Samurai.
25 Q. What role did you play in the search?
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
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Pierce - direct
1 A. I was the acquiring agent of all the evidence taken from
2 the Samurai.
3 Q. Can you explain to the jury what role the acquiring agent
4 plays?
5 A. It was my job to be at the scene of the search. I was not
6 physically removing the evidence, but there was an evidence
7 response team there to do that. They're trained to do that.
8 I was to actually acquire the evidence that they removed from
9 the vehicle and to see it was properly packaged and sealed.
10 When I was satisfied that was done, I initialled it and then
11 it entered the chain of custody from there.
12 Q. Let me approach you with a number of items, Government
13 Exhibits 1412 through 1419, and then 1424.
14 If you could look at what has been marked Government
15 Exhibit 1412 first. Tell us if you recognize it, and, if so,
16 what it is?
17 A. I do recognize this. It has my initials on the tape, and
18 I have my writing, and it's metal parts from the passenger
19 compartment of the Samurai.
20 Q. Looking next to Government Exhibit 1413, can you tell us
21 if you recognize it, and, if so, what it is?
22 A. Yes, I recognize the brush. It was taken from the
23 Samurai, and my initials are also on the packaging.
24 Q. Look at Government Exhibit 1414. Tell us if you recognize
25 it, and, if so, what it is?
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13J1BIN2
Pierce - direct
1 A. I also recognize this. It has my writing and my initials
2 on the seal, and the fork and paper napkins from the Samurai,
3 the back seat floor.
4 Q. Let me approach you with what's been marked as Government
5 Exhibits 1415, 16 and 17. Starting with Government Exhibit
6 1415, would you look at that and tell us whether or not you
7 recognize it, and, if so, what it is?
8 A. I do recognize this. It has my initials on the seal, and
9 these were rubber-like parts that were removed from under the
10 driver's seat.
11 Q. The same question with regard to Government Exhibit 1416?
12 A. Yes, I do recognize this, also. It's got my initials on
13 here, and it's labled as a roll of window tint. It's some
14 dark plastic material.
15 Q. Do you know where that was found?
16 A. Pardon me?
17 Q. Was that in the Suzuki Samurai as well?
18 A. This was taken from the Suzuki, also.
19 Q. With regard to Government Exhibit 1417 in front of you,
20 can you tell us if you recognize that, and, if so, what it is?
21 A. I also recognize this. It has my initials on it and it is
22 a window handle that was taken from the dashboard. It was not
23 actually on the window, on the door. It was laying on the
24 dashboard of the Suzuki.
25 Q. Let me approach you with 1418, 1419 and 1424. Looking
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
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13J1BIN2
Pierce - direct
1 first at 1418, can you tell us if you recognize that, and, if
2 so, what it is?
3 A. I do recognize this. It has my initials on it, also.
4 These were other items taken from the Samurai just an
5 assortment of items that we just decided to package together.
6 Q. Government Exhibit 14149 which would be the orange bucket
7 in front of you. Would you look at that and see if you
8 recognize it and tell us what is contained within that item?
9 A. I do recognize it. It has my writing on it and my
10 initials. And it's and L-shaped rubber piece from behind the
11 back seat and it was approximately three feet in length from
12 the Samurai.
13 Q. Finally, 1424, which is to your right in front of you. If
14 you look at that and tell us if you recognize it, and, if so,
15 what it is?
16 A. I do recognize this. A set of keys taken from the
17 Samurai.
18 MR. FITZGERALD: Your Honor, I would offer Government
19 Exhibits 1412 through 1419 and 1424.
20 THE COURT: Received.
21 (Government's Exhibits 1412 through 1419 and 1424
22 received in evidence)
23 MR. FITZGERALD: I have no further questions.
24 MR. RUHNKE: No questions, your Honor.
25 THE COURT: Mr. Wilford, on behalf of defendant Odeh.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
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13J1BIN2
Pierce - cross/Wilford
1 CROSS-EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. WILFORD:
3 Q. Good morning, agent.
4 A. Good morning.
5 Q. How you doing?
6 A. Very good thanks.
7 Q. As the acquiring agent you are, you stated, responsible
8 for making sure that the items that come into your custody are
9 properly packaged and sealed; is that correct?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And it's at that point that you said they enter the chain
12 of custody, is that correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Now, that's pursuant to an FBI protocol, isn't that
15 correct?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And it details, does it not, how items that are received
18 by FBI agents must be cared for and controlled until such time
19 as they are turned over to the lab, is that correct?
20 A. Yes.
21 MR. WILFORD: Thank you. Nothing further.
22 THE COURT: Thank you, agent. You may step down.
23 (Witness excused)
24 The government may call its next witness.
25 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, the government calls Kathleen
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
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13J1BIN2
Lundy - direct
1 Lundy.
2 KATHLEEN M. LUNDY,
3 called as a witness by the government,
4 having been duly sworn, testified as follows:.
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. KARAS:
7 Q. Good morning.
8 A. Good morning.
9 Q. Can you tell us how you're employed?
10 A. I'm employed in the FBI laboratory in Washington, D.C.
11 I'm assigned to the elemental analysis group of the materials
12 analysis unit in our laboratory where I'm a forensics
13 examiner.
14 Q. And for how long have you been with the FBI laboratory?
15 A. It was 15 years at the end of this January.
16 Q. For how long have you been a qualified forensics examiner?
17 A. Approximately five and a half years.
18 Q. Can you tell the jury a little bit about your educational
19 background?
20 A. I received a bachelor of science degree in metallurgy from
21 the Pennsylvania State University in May of 1985.
22 Q. And have you received specific training in the area of
23 forensics examination?
24 A. Yes, I have. From the day that I began my employment with
25 the FBI laboratory I was assigned to work for an examiner in
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
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13J1BIN2
Lundy - direct
1 what was called the elemental analysis unit, and I was taught
2 the correct evidence handling procedures, how to prepare
3 samples for analysis. Eventually how to operate the
4 instrumentation and review the results.
5 All this was in the laboratory on a daily basis. And
6 I was also afforded the opportunity to attend training courses
7 offered at our research facility at Quantico, and also by the
8 universities in the area such as George Washington University,
9 who has a graduate forensic science program, University of
10 Maryland, Lehigh University, University of Virginia; also able
11 to attend training courses offered by the manufacturers of the
12 instruments that we use in the laboratory, and to attend
13 analytical seminars in chemistry and the forensic science
14 seminars to keep current with what's being done in the field
15 of elemental analysis.
16 Q. Can you tell us what elemental analysis is?
17 A. What we do in our group is to use a variety of different
18 instruments in order to analyze items of evidence that we
19 receive to determine their elemental or chemical makeup. Some
20 of these are what we call qualitative analyses where we're
21 just trying to determine which chemical elements make up the
22 specimens and others of quantitative analyses where we
23 actually determine which elements present in the specimens and
24 the concentrations or amounts, and a great, most of the work
25 that I do is to compare different items of evidence to
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
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13J1BIN2
Lundy - direct
1 determine if they have the same chemical makeup or elemental
2 makeup, or if they're different, to try to determine whether
3 or not these different pieces are from the same source or
4 different sources.
5 Q. Can you give us an example or some examples of the types
6 of items that you have analyzed over the years as part of your
7 elemental analysis?
8 A. A lot of the work that I do is the analysis and comparison
9 of bullets, shot pellets, lead and steel, bee bees, copper
10 wire, steel plate, steel pipe, and in another case steel gas
11 cylinder fragments.
12 Q. Are you familiar with the phrase ICP analysis?
13 A. Yes, very familiar.
14 Q. Can you tell us what ICP is?
15 A. ICP stands for inductive coupled plasma. The full name of
16 that type of instrumentation is inductive coupled plasma
17 atomic spectroscopy, and it's the instrumental technique that
18 we use to perform the chemical analyses of the bullets or
19 pellets or the steel or copper wire in our laboratory.
20 Q. Now, you mentioned steel. How many times have you been
21 asked to conduct an elemental analysis on steel items?
22 A. Since I've become an examiner I've had seven different
23 cases that I've been assigned to where a comparative steel
24 analysis was requested.
25 Q. Can you tell us in your career as a forensic examiner how
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
2739
13J1BIN2
Lundy - direct
1 many times you have used the ICP method of elemental analysis
2 on items or exhibits you've been asked to examine?
3 A. In the five and a half years or so that I've been an
4 examiner I've been assigned to somewhere around 300 cases, and
5 in just about all of these cases ICP was the analytical
6 technique used and does involve thousands of analyses.
7 Q. Ms. Lundy, did there come a time you were asked to examine
8 what were identified to you as steel cylinder fragments?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. In connection with the analysis that you performed did you
11 visit the steel cylinder manufacturing facility?
12 A. Yes, I did. I visited the Taylor Wharton Gas Equipment
13 Division of the Harco Corporation. It's located in
14 Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
15 Q. Did you have an opportunity to speak to an industry expert
16 regarding steel cylinders?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Now, can you tell us exactly what it is that you were
19 asked to determine as part of your analysis?
20 A. What I was asked to do was to look at and perform analyses
21 on approximately two hundred fragments of steel gas cylinders
22 in order to try to determine how many actual cylinders these
23 different fragments might represent.
24 Q. And were these fragments that you understood had been
25 recovered in the vicinity of the American Embassy in Dar es
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Lundy - direct
1 Salaam Tanzania?
2 A. Yes, that's correct.
3 Q. Can you tell us how it is you went about your analysis of
4 these fragments.
5 A. At the same time that I started receiving the gas cylinder
6 fragments I was also given three cylinders as examplars.
7 There were two oxygen cylinders and one acetylene cylinder,
8 and they were brought to me as being representative of the
9 type of cylinders the fragments would have been from.
10 So analysis was conducted on the exemplar cylinders
11 to determine whether or not they were one piece cylinders,
12 whether or not the seal was homogenous or compositionally the
13 same throughout, and, also, if there were any attachments to
14 the cylinders, what kind of seal those different attachments
15 were made of so that when the fragments were analyzed I could
16 interpret the results.
17 Q. I'm going to approach you with what has been marked in
18 evidence as Government Exhibit 1132.
19 Can you tell us if you recognize that item?
20 A. Yes, I do. It's one of the fragments that I received in
21 the laboratory. It contains my initials in two different
22 places on the fragment.
23 Q. When you obtained your examplars did you then use the ICP
24 method of determining the elemental composition of the various
25 fragments that you analyzed?
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
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13J1BIN2
Lundy - direct
1 A. Yes. ICP was used as the technique to perform all the
2 analyses in this case.
3 Q. And can you tell us what conclusion you reached about the
4 number of cylinders that may have been originally in the
5 vicinity of the Dar es Salaam embassy?
6 A. When the analysis was completed I determined that based on
7 the results of the two hundred fragments that were analyzed
8 that those fragments represented at least 20 different gas
9 cylinders.
10 Q. Ms. Lundy, I'm going to approach you with what has been
11 marked for identification as Government Exhibit 1145 and ask
12 you to take a look at it. Can you tell us what that is?
13 A. This is the summary of the ICP analysis results on the gas
14 cylinder fragments.
15 Q. Is that a summary that you compared to your notes in the
16 reports that you prepared in connection with your examination?
17 A. Yes, it is.
18 Q. Does that summary actually reflect the results of your
19 analysis?
20 A. Yes, it does.
21 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, we offer Government Exhibit
22 1145.
23 MR. RUHNKE: No objection.
24 THE COURT: Received.
25 (Government's Exhibit 1145 received in evidence)
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
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13J1BIN2
Lundy - direct
1 MR. KARAS: If we could display 1145, please.
2 Q. Now, if you could tell us, Ms. Lundy, what the Roman
3 numerals on are on the left-hand column?
4 A. The numbers in the left-hand column is just a number that
5 was assigned to a different composition group. Each one of
6 those groups was with a Q number indicates that the specimens
7 associated with that have the same composition as each other,
8 but between the different groups there are differences in the
9 elemental composition of the seal.
10 Q. The next column which says specimens, the two numbers are
11 what?
12 A. Those were the specimen numbers assigned to the individual
13 fragments that were analyzed in the FBI laboratory.
14 Q. After you broke down the fragments into their respective
15 composition groups can you tell us whether or not photographs
16 were taken of the fragments that comprised these composition
17 groups?
18 A. Yes, a photograph was taken of each composition group.
19 Q. I'm going to approach, Ms. Lundy, with what has been
20 premarked for identification as Government Exhibits 1146
21 through 1164.
22 Have you had opportunity to review those exhibits
23 before you came to court today?
24 A. Yes, I did.
25 Q. Can you tell us what they are?
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
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13J1BIN2
Lundy - direct
1 A. Each one of these exhibits is a photograph of the fragment
2 separated into their different composition groups.
3 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, at this time we offer
4 Government Exhibits 1146 through 1164 and also 1156A, 1162A
5 and 1163 A.
6 MR. RUHNKE: No objection.
7 THE COURT: Received.
8 (Government's Exhibits 1146 through 1164 and also
9 1156A, 1162A and 1163A received in evidence)
10 MR. KARAS: If we could display 1162 A, please.
11 Q. Now, Ms. Lundy, after you had assigned the pieces to their
12 respective composition groups, did you try to actually piece
13 them together to see if they made up more of a whole of a
14 cylinder tank?
15 A. Well, when the, after the fragments were analyzed and
16 placed into the different composition groups we started
17 looking at them and seeing that in some cases you could
18 actually put the pieces back together as in this photograph
19 that's now being displayed.
20 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, I have no further questions.
21 MR. RUHNKE: No questions.
22 THE COURT: You may step down.
23 (Witness excused)
24 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, the government calls Rick
25 Leas.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
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13J1BIN2
Leas - direct
1 RICHARD L. LEAS,
2 called as a witness by the government,
3 having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
4 DIRECT EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. KARAS:
6 Q. Good morning, sir.
7 A. Good morning.
8 Q. Can you tell us how you're employed?
9 A. I'm employed as a fingerprint specialist at the Federal
10 Bureau of Investigation in Washington, D.C.
11 Q. For how long have you been a fingerprint specialist at the
12 FBI?
13 A. I've been a fingerprint specialist for 16 years in two
14 weeks. April 1st it will be 16 years.
15 Q. Can you tell us a little bit about the training you
16 received to become a fingerprint specialist?
17 A. Upon, when I first became working at the FBI in 1970 I was
18 trained in the classification, searching and the handling of
19 inked cards. In 1985 I entered into the latent fingerprint
20 section where I became a fingerprint specialist.
21 Upon entering in to the latent section I went through
22 one year of training in the processing, the handling of
23 evidence, the comparison of latent prints for one full year
24 until I was qualified as a fingerprint specialist.
25 Q. Now, did there come a time, Mr. Leas, you were asked to
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
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13J1BIN2
Leas - direct
1 examine items that had been brought from Dar es Salaam
2 Tanzania in connection with the embassy bombing?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And what task were you given, sir, in connection with
5 those items?
6 A. I was asked to examine these items for the presence of
7 latent prints to determine if latent prints were present or
8 could be developed on these items, and if latent prints were
9 present or developed I would have them photographed and then I
10 would compare these latent prints with the inked prints of
11 individuals.
12 Q. In conducting your examination of these items did you
13 follow the suggested FBI protocol for the processing of latent
14 fingerprints?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Mr. Leas, I'm going to approach with what has been marked
17 for identification as Government Exhibit 1461.
18 Mr. Leas, in the course of your processing of these
19 various exhibits were you able to recover latent prints from
20 some of the items?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Can you tell us whether or not you were also able to
23 identify these prints by comparing them to inked fingerprints?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Can you tell us what Government Exhibit 1461 is?
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
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13J1BIN2
Leas - direct
1 A. Government Exhibit 1461 is a summary of some of the items
2 that I examined, some of the latent prints I developed and
3 some of the latent prints that I identified.
4 Q. Have you compared that summary analysis with the notes and
5 the reports that you prepared in connection with your
6 examination of the items?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Is the information that is contained on the summary
9 accurate?
10 A. Yes.
11 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, we offer Government Exhibit
12 1461.
13 MR. RUHNKE: No objection.
14 THE COURT: Received.
15 (Government's Exhibit 1461 received in evidence)
16 MR. KARAS: If we could display 1461.
17 Now, Mr. Leas, the fourth column over where it says
18 method?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Can you just tell us briefly what the NIN stands for?
21 A. The NIN stands for Ninhydrin. Ninhydrin is a chemical
22 agent that is dissolved into a carrying agent which consists
23 primarily of petroleum ether, and it's sprayed onto an item to
24 develop latent prints.
25 Q. The next column over where it says latents lifted and it
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13J1BIN2
Leas - direct
1 says 5-FPTS, does that mean you found five identifiable latent
2 fingerprints on that item?
3 A. That means that five fingerprints that were developed on
4 that item were identified with Khalfan Khamis Mohamed.
5 Q. When you say identified with Khalfan Khamis Mohamed, can
6 you tell us exactly what you mean by that?
7 A. Upon developing these prints and having them photographed
8 and then further comparing these latent prints with the inked
9 fingerprints of Khalfan Khamis Mohamed, I was able to
10 determine that five latent fingerprints that were developed on
11 that item were in fact the same as the fingerprints on the
12 same print card that went to Khalfan Khamis Mohamed's name.
13 Q. Now, with respect to the next item there, Government
14 Exhibit 1420, have you prepared an enlargement of where you
15 identified the latent print?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. In particular, the palm print that's listed there?
18 A. Yes.
19 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, may I ask that Mr. Leas be
20 allowed to step down?
21 THE COURT: Yes.
22 (Witness left stand)
23 Q. Mr. Leas, I've put before you what has been marked for
24 identification as Government Exhibit 1420-LP-1.
25 Can you tell us what that is?
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
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13J1BIN2
Leas - direct
1 A. Yes, this is an enlargement of a portion of Government
2 Exhibit 1420.
3 Q. Did you help prepare that enlargement yourself?
4 A. Yes.
5 MR. KARAS: Your Honor we offer Government Exhibit
6 1420-LP-1.
7 MR. RUHNKE: No objection.
8 THE COURT: Received.
9 (Government's Exhibit 1420-LP-1 received in evidence)
10 Q. If you can also take a look right behind you what has been
11 marked for identification as Government Exhibit 1420-LP-2 and
12 can you tell us what that is?
13 A. Government Exhibit 1420-LP-2 is --
14 Q. Just tell us what it is.
15 A. Okay. It's an enlargement of a palm print, enlargement
16 marked latent palm print enlargement of the latent palm print
17 which was developed on Government Exhibit 1420.
18 The enlargement marked inked palm print is an
19 enlargement of a portion of the inked palm print of Khalfan
20 Khamis Mohamed.
21 MR. KARAS: At this time we offer Government Exhibit
22 1420-LP-2.
23 MR. RUHNKE: Without objection.
24 THE COURT: Received.
25 (Government's Exhibit 1420-LP-2 received in evidence)
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13J1BIN2
Leas - direct
1 Q. Mr. Leas, if you could with the larger picture if you
2 could just turn that around and show the jury exactly what it
3 is that is depicted in that picture?
4 A. This exhibit 1420-LP-1 is a portion of the exhibit,
5 Government Exhibit 1420. What is on here is latent prints
6 that were developed on the exhibit 1420. And in the lower
7 left-hand corner is the latent palm print that was developed
8 on here that was compared with the palm print of Khalfan
9 Khamis Mohammed. Also on here are latent fingerprints that
10 were developed with the Ninhydrin process.
11 Q. Thank you. If you could take a look at 1420-LP-2 and
12 explain to the jury, first of all, what those red numbers are
13 around both photographs there?
14 A. The red numbers and the lines that are coming from the
15 numbers illustrate ridge characteristics that are present in
16 both the latent palm print and the inked palm print.
17 Q. Were you able to compare the latent palm print with the
18 inked palm print and draw any conclusion?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. What was the conclusion?
21 A. In comparing the latent palm print with the inked palm
22 print I was able to determine that the latent palm print that
23 was developed on Government Exhibit 1420 and the inked palm
24 print present on the fingerprints or palm print card of
25 Khalfan Khamis Mohammed came from, were made by one and the
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13J1BIN2
Leas - direct
1 same palm.
2 Q. Can you tell us the basis of that conclusion?
3 A. The basis for this conclusion is determined by comparing
4 the ridge characteristics of the latent palm print and seeing
5 if the ridge characteristics on the latent palm print also are
6 present in the inked palm print in the same relevant portion
7 and area.
8 And when you find that they are, that's when you
9 determine that they do indeed come from the same palm.
10 Q. Can you just give us a couple of examples where you were
11 able to make the comparison?
12 A. Yes. If I could direct your attention to the enlargement
13 marked latent palm print, in the top right-hand corner of the
14 photograph approximately 3 inches down from the top towards
15 the right border, if you would direct your attention, it's the
16 ridge flowing upward and ending, ridge characteristic number
17 1. From ridge characteristic number 1, moving across one
18 intervening ridge to the next ridge is also a ridge flowing
19 upward and ending. Where this ridge ends I've indicated ridge
20 characteristic number 2.
21 From ridge characteristic number 2 moving to the left
22 and to the next ridge that ridge lays down and ends. Where
23 this ends I've illustrated ridge characteristic 3.
24 From ridge characteristic 3 moving across one ridge
25 to the next ridge there is a ridge flowing upwards and that
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Leas - direct
1 where this ends I've indicated ridge characteristic 4.
2 Now, moving to the enlargement marked inked palm
3 print and bearing in mind for these two palm prints to be made
4 by the same palm the same ridge characteristics must also
5 appear in the inked palm print in the same relevant position
6 and area, so on the inked palm print upper right-hand corner
7 approximately 3 inches from the top edge is a ridge flowing
8 upward and ending. Where this ridge ends I've indicated ridge
9 characteristic 1.
10 Moving across one intervening ridge to the next ridge
11 it is flowing upward and ending. Where it ends I've indicated
12 ridge characteristic 2. Moving across one intervening ridge
13 to the next it flows downward and ends. Where it ends I've
14 indicated ridge characteristic number 3.
15 From ridge characteristic number 3 moving across one
16 intervening ridge to the next ridge is a ridge flowing upward.
17 Where it ends I've indicated ridge characteristic number 4.
18 You can see these four ridge characteristics on the
19 latent palm print and the inked palm print are in the same
20 relevant position and area on both prints.
21 Now, these four characteristics, plus these others I
22 have marked on here, and others that are present in both the
23 inked and the latent palm print that I determined that the
24 latent palm print developed on Government Exhibit 1420 and the
25 inked palm print from palm print card of Khalfan Khamis
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
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Leas - direct
1 Mohammed were made by one and the same palm.
2 MR. KARAS: Thank you, Mr. Leas. I have no further
3 questions.
4 MR. RUHNKE: No questions.
5 THE COURT: Thank you.
6 (Witness excused)
7 THE COURT: You are excused.
8 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, the government calls Ron
9 Kelly.
10 RON KELLY, resumed.
11 THE COURT: Mr. Kelly, the Court advises you that
12 you're still under oath.
13 DIRECT EXAMINATION
14 BY MR. KARAS:
15 Q. Good morning, sir.
16 A. Good morning.
17 Q. I believe you previously testified that you worked in the
18 chemistry unit at the FBI?
19 A. It the explosives unit of the FBI.
20 Q. Excuse me. Can you tell us a little bit about your
21 educational background?
22 A. Certainly. In 1977 I graduated from the University of
23 Maryland with a bachelors of science degree in chemistry, and
24 I continued one additional year taking courses in law
25 enforcement and criminology.
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Kelly - direct
1 Q. Can you tell us a little bit about the training you've
2 received in the area of chemistry and explosives?
3 A. 1978 I joined the FBI laboratory and was assigned to the
4 chemistry unit at the time. There under the tutelage of
5 experienced chemists and other examiners in the unit I got a
6 lot of on-the-job training that was pertinent to the
7 examinations that I'd be performing in the unit.
8 Additionally, I attended many courses at our training
9 facility at Quantico, Virginia, having to do again with the
10 instrumentation and forensic analyses that I would perform in
11 the unit. Augmenting that I took many courses offered by
12 private agencies, other government agencies, and companies
13 that we dealt with as far as instrumentation that we used in
14 our laboratory to perform our analysis.
15 In addition to that, I have received training in the
16 area of evidence collection and some field investigative
17 techniques.
18 Q. Now, in fact, have you helped process crime scenes
19 yourself, Mr. Kelly?
20 A. Yes, I have. I have been to several of the major
21 explosion investigations that we've been involved in such as
22 Oklahoma City, TWA 800, and the bombings at the embassies here
23 in Africa.
24 Q. Did there come a time that you were asked to perform an
25 examination of various items that were retrieved from the
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13J1BIN2
Kelly - direct
1 vicinity of the American Embassy in Dar es Salaam?
2 A. Yes, I was.
3 Q. Can you tell us what you were asked to do in connection
4 with those items?
5 A. My main responsibility with the evidence that I received
6 was to perform chemical examination for the presence of
7 explosives or explosives residues on the various items that I
8 received.
9 Q. Can you tell us whether or not there is a standard
10 protocol that the FBI lab uses to determine the existence of
11 chemical residue on items?
12 A. Yes. We have a standard examination protocol which I
13 followed in this case.
14 Q. Did you conduct examinations you were requested to
15 conduct?
16 A. Yes, I did.
17 Q. Can you tell us whether or not, generally speaking, you
18 found that there was chemical residue left on some of the
19 items that you examined?
20 A. Yes, there was chemical residues of two explosives found
21 on many of the items that I examined in this case.
22 Q. Did you prepare reports and take notes during your
23 examination of these items?
24 A. Yes, I did.
25 Q. Sir, I'm going to approach you with what has been
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Kelly - direct
1 premarked for identification as Government Exhibit 1462 and
2 ask you to take a look at it.
3 Do you recognize that exhibit, sir?
4 A. Yes, I do.
5 Q. Can you tell us what it is?
6 A. This is a summary chart of the analysis, chemical analysis
7 that I performed on some of the items that were submitted for
8 explosive residue analysis.
9 Q. Have you compared this chart with the reports and the
10 notes that you prepared during your examination?
11 A. Yes, I have.
12 Q. Can you tell us whether or not the information contained
13 on that summary chart is accurate?
14 A. The information contained in this summary chart is a fair
15 and accurate representation of the examination result that I
16 obtained while performing chemical residue analysis on the
17 items described therein.
18 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, at this time the government
19 offers exhibit 1462.
20 MR. RUHNKE: No objection.
21 THE COURT: Received.
22 (Government's Exhibit 1462 received in evidence)
23 MR. KARAS: If we could display 1462, please.
24 Q. Now, Mr. Kelly, the very first category of items there you
25 see at the top says US Embassy Dar es Salaam?
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Kelly - direct
1 A. Yes, I do.
2 Q. The FBI number Q4 and the Government Exhibit number 1110.
3 The debris from the crater, do you see that?
4 A. Yes, I do.
5 Q. Now, have you been to crime scenes where you have seen a
6 bomb crater?
7 A. Yes, I have.
8 Q. Can you tell us what effect, if any, the existence of
9 water standing on top of the bomb crater would have on TNT
10 residue that would be at the bottom of that crater?
11 A. With TNT residue water, small amounts of water would or
12 could act as an insulator in some cases to protect the TNT
13 that may be present on the items within the crater.
14 Q. Now, Mr. Kelly, can you tell us whether or not TNT residue
15 left on items is stable or unstable so that it would evaporate
16 over time?
17 A. TNT is a fairly stable explosive. It will evaporate over
18 an extended period of time, but for the most part when we're
19 dealing with explosives in general, TNT is a fairly stable
20 material that would last a fairly long time.
21 Q. If somebody were to take clothes and wash them a couple of
22 times what effect, if any, would that have on any TNT residue
23 on those clothes?
24 A. Again, most explosives on clothing if the clothing is
25 washed in a fairly typical laundry detergent, a couple of
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Kelly - direct
1 washings would eventually remove explosives from the material.
2 Other emulsifiers are in detergents to remove grease and grime
3 would also be effective in removing explosives.
4 MR. KARAS: Thank you Mr. Kelly. I have no further
5 questions.
6 THE COURT: Cross-examination by Mr. Ruhnke on behalf
7 of defendant KK Mohamed.
8 CROSS-EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. RUHNKE:
10 Q. Agent, if I recall your testimony when you here before,
11 you testified that you examined and tested for trace amounts
12 of residue, is that correct?
13 A. In the laboratory or are you referring to?
14 Q. Yes.
15 A. We examined for both trace amounts of explosives, but we
16 can also examine bulk explosives, also.
17 Q. But in this case your examination was directed primarily
18 to trace analysis, correct?
19 A. That's correct. I don't recall, there was a couple of
20 items that we did examine for bulk explosives, just very few.
21 The majority of the items by far were for trace amounts of
22 explosives.
23 Q. And when you do trace analysis you're testifying for or
24 trying to discovery what are microscopic and even
25 submicroscopic residue of explosives is that correct?
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Kelly - cross/Ruhnke/Wilford
1 A. That is correct.
2 Q. And just so I'm clear on this, when you talk about
3 somebody having TNT residue on their blue jeans or on an item,
4 we're not talking about it being an explosive hazard, are we?
5 A. No. It is not explosive hazard in those quantities.
6 MR. RUHNKE: Right. Thank you.
7 MR. WILFORD: I'm sorry, your Honor.
8 THE COURT: Mr. Wilford.
9 CROSS-EXAMINATION
10 BY MR. WILFORD:
11 Q. Good morning, Agent Kelly.
12 A. Good morning.
13 Q. Agent Kelly, when you were discussing just a moment ago
14 with Mr. Karas the TNT residue you were referring to residue
15 that would remain after an explosion or prior to an explosion?
16 A. In the particular case we were discussing we were
17 discussing debris in a crater so that would be referring to an
18 incident that would occur after an explosion.
19 Q. Would it be fair to say, Agent Kelly, that there is a
20 difference in the molecular structure of the both pre and
21 postexplosion?
22 A. Actually, no. The TNT itself is a compound which again is
23 not altered by the explosion per se if it's remaining there
24 after the explosion. It's the residues of TNT and explosion
25 would be molecularly the same as the TNT prior to the
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Kelly - cross/Wilford
1 explosion. TNT though usually is mostly consumed in an
2 explosion and there'd be just very, very small quantities
3 left, but it would still be the same molecular structure.
4 (Continued on next page)
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10
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12
13
14
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16
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25
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Kelly - cross
1 Q. Do you remember Mr. Karas asking you a question regarding
2 the washing of clothes and the effect that would have on the
3 TNT residue?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. You said that after a few washings with normal soap
6 emulsifiers would in fact dissipate the TNT so that you
7 wouldn't be able to find the residue; is that correct?
8 A. That is in correct.
9 Q. If the clothes in fact were not washed, if they were
10 placed in a bag and held in the bag for several weeks without
11 being washed at all, you would in fact then find TNT residue;
12 is that correct?
13 A. If those items of clothing had been exposed to fairly
14 significant quantities of explosives, yes, that TNT would
15 definitely remain on those clothings after several weeks.
16 Q. Do you have any way of measuring the area on a particular
17 piece of clothing on which TNT residue was found? Would it be
18 from a particular grid, centimeters by centimeters or inches
19 by inches, or would you just say TNT residue was found?
20 A. Generally speaking we vacuum the clothing items. In
21 particular we try to vacuum areas which are going to be in
22 contact with the person's hands or touching area. So we would
23 be doing pockets where generally hands would be going. Again,
24 those would be the most likely areas where a transfer of
25 explosive residue would be found.
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13jkbin3
Kelly - cross
1 Q. But for clothes that were in a bag, some uncontaminated
2 with respect to TNT and TNT-contaminated clothes that were in
3 a bag, you would have no way of knowing which part was
4 transferred to which part, would you?
5 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, objection to form.
6 THE COURT: Overruled. Do you understand the
7 question?
8 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
9 THE COURT: You may answer.
10 A. Items of clothing that are commingled in a bag, the action
11 of just putting them in and the surfaces of the clothing
12 rubbing could transfer TNT from pieces with clothes to a piece
13 of clothing without exposure, yes.
14 (Continued on next page)
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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13jkbin3
1 MR. WILFORD: Thank you very much. Nothing further
2 of this witness.
3 THE COURT: Anything further of this witness?
4 MR. KARAS: No, your Honor.
5 THE COURT: Thank you. You may step down.
6 (Witness excused)
7 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, we would propose to read some
8 stipulations. The first is marked for identification as
9 Government's Exhibit 51.
10 It is hereby stipulated and agreed by and between the
11 parties as follows.
12 1. Government's Exhibits 20 through 24 are true and
13 accurate copies of the documents on file concerning the
14 applications for Kenyan identity cards, with photographs and
15 fingerprints, of Sheik Ahmed Salim Swedan, Fahid Mohammed
16 Ally, Mohammed Karama Salim, Mohammad Fadhil Mustafa, and
17 Fazul Abdelahi Mohamed, without fingerprints.
18 2. It is stipulated that an FBI agent would testify
19 that the copy of fingerprints of Fazul Abdelahi Mohamed were
20 sent to the FBI and affixed to an FBI fingerprint card of
21 which a true and accurate copy is Government's Exhibit 25.
22 Your Honor, at this time we offer Government's
23 Exhibit 51 and the exhibits referenced therein.
24 THE COURT: Received. That is 51 and Exhibits 20
25 through 24 and 25.
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13jkbin3
1 (Government's Exhibits 20 through 25 and 51 received
2 in evidence)
3 MR. KARAS: This is a stipulation marked for
4 identification as Government's Exhibit 66. It is hereby
5 stipulated and agreed by and between the parties that if
6 called as a witness at trial, a law enforcement officer would
7 testify that he took the fingerprints and palm prints of
8 Khalfan Khamis Mohamed on October 7, 1999, in New York, and
9 that Government's Exhibits 26A and 26B are fair and accurate
10 copies of the fingerprint and palm print cards on which he
11 marked these fingerprints and palm prints.
12 Your Honor, at this time we offer Government's
13 Exhibits 66 and Government's Exhibits 26A and B.
14 THE COURT: Received.
15 (Government's Exhibits 26A, 26B and 66 received in
16 evidence)
17 MR. KARAS: The next stipulation is marked for
18 identification as Government's Exhibit 67. It is hereby
19 stipulated and agreed as follows:
20 1. Government's Exhibit 255 is a fair and accurate
21 map of Dar es Salaam, Tanzania.
22 2. Government's Exhibit 256 is a fair and accurate
23 map of the shown portions of Tanzania, Kenya and Somalia.
24 3. Government's Exhibit 258 is a fair and accurate
25 map of the eastern coasts of Kenya and Tanzania.
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13jkbin3
1 4. Government's Exhibit 257 is a fair and accurate
2 map of the southern portion of the continent of Africa.
3 At this time, your Honor, we offer Government's
4 Exhibit 67 and the exhibits referenced.
5 THE COURT: 66, 255, 256, 257, 258 are received.
6 (Government's Exhibits 66 and 255 through 258
7 received in evidence)
8 MR. KARAS: Finally, stipulation marked for
9 identification as Government's Exhibit 70. It is hereby
10 stipulated and agreed by and between the parties as follows:
11 1. On October 5, 1999, representatives from the
12 South African Home Affairs Office, HAO, conducted a lawful
13 search of the premises located at 14 Aquarius Road, Capetown,
14 South Africa. During this search, HAO officers recovered one
15 jacket, marked as Government's Exhibit 1010, which had in one
16 of the pockets a set of keys, marked as Government's Exhibit
17 1011.
18 2. Thereafter, on October 5, 1999, South African HAO
19 officers, in the company of special agents from the FBI,
20 conducted a search of a room within the residential premises
21 known as 58 Pine Street, Capetown, South Africa. If called to
22 testify, one of the persons participating in or present for
23 the search would testify that the room was locked, but the
24 keys found in the jacket located at 14 Aquarius Road opened
25 the door. Before the search was conducted, a special agent
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1 from the Diplomatic Security Service, United States Department
2 of State, conducted explosives detection swipes in the room
3 and found no explosives residue.
4 3. Government's Exhibits 1012A through 1012L are
5 photographs taken of 58 Pine Street and the room within the
6 day it was searched on October 5, 1999.
7 4. During the search of 58 Pine Street, HAO officers
8 and FBI special agents recovered the following: One
9 vaccination certificate in the name of Zahran Nassor, marked
10 Government's Exhibit 1015; one cloth bag, marked as 1016; one
11 white skull cap, marked as 1017; one Tanzanian passport in the
12 name Zahran Nassor Maulid, marked as 1018; one piece of paper
13 with "things to do" written on top, 1019; two business cards
14 for Burger World, marked 1020.
15 FBI agents obtained custody of the items found at 58
16 Pine Street and 14 Aquarius Road on October 5, 1999, which
17 were transported to the United States via airplane and brought
18 to the forensics laboratory at FBI headquarters in Washington,
19 D.C.
20 At this time, your Honor, we offer Government's
21 Exhibit 70 and the exhibits referenced therein.
22 THE COURT: Government's Exhibits 70 and 1015 through
23 1020 are received.
24 (Government's Exhibits 70, 1010, 1011, 1015 through
25 1020, and 1012A through 1012L received in evidence)
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13jkbin3
1 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, now might be a good time for
2 a break.
3 THE COURT: We will take a break. As a matter of
4 fact, we will take a break through the lunch hour. We will
5 take a break until 2:00.
6 (Jury excused)
7 THE COURT: Would counsel like to have an opportunity
8 to confer with each other before we resume the matters that
9 were begun in the robing room?
10 COUNSEL: Yes, your Honor.
11 MR. COHN: In addition, the government gave us this
12 morning 3500 material for a witness I won't name here.
13 3584-1, which I would like to take up with the court.
14 THE COURT: Why don't we take all those matters up at
15 12:15.
16 MR. WILFORD: 12:30, your Honor.
17 (Recess)
18 (Pages 2767-2788 sealed)
19 (Luncheon recess)
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N
2 1:50 p.m.
3 (Pages 2789 through 2792 sealed)
4 (In open court; jury present)
5 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I'm
6 advised that the next witness will testify as to post-arrest
7 statements made by KK Mohamed to law enforcement personnel. I
8 instruct you that these statements are received and may be
9 considered by you solely as evidence against KK Mohamed and
10 not considered by you to any extent with regard to any other
11 defendants now on trial.
12 I advise you also that the same rule applies as to
13 statements made by Al-'Owhali and Odeh after their arrest.
14 Those statements may be considered by you solely as to the
15 defendant making the statement and may not be considered by
16 you to any extent with regard to any other defendants.
17 Although I will repeat these rulings in greater
18 detail in my final instruction to you, and you will have a
19 copy of them before you begin your deliberations, this may be
20 a good time to advise you why the law makes a distinction
21 between statements made by alleged conspirators before their
22 arrest and those made after their arrest.
23 The rules of evidence generally provide that if a
24 jury finds beyond a reasonable doubt that a conspiracy
25 existed, then any acts done or statements made in furtherance
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1 of that conspiracy may be considered against any other
2 defendant you also find to have been a member of that
3 conspiracy.
4 For this rule to apply, the jury must first determine
5 that the statements made by alleged coconspirators were made
6 during the existence and in furtherance of the conspiracy.
7 With exceptions not relevant to this case, statements made by
8 defendants are not statements made in furtherance of the
9 conspiracy and therefore may not be considered with regard to
10 any other defendant.
11 I repeat, therefore, that evidence or of statements
12 made after their arrest by defendants Al-'Owhali, Odeh, and KK
13 Mohamed, are received in evidence, but are to be considered by
14 you solely as to the specific defendant making such statement.
15 The government may call its next witness.
16 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, the government calls Special
17 Agent Abigail Perkins.
18 ABIGAIL PERKINS,
19 called as a witness by the government,
20 having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
21 DIRECT EXAMINATION
22 BY MR. KARAS:
23 Q. Good afternoon, Agent Perkins.
24 A. Good afternoon.
25 Q. Who do you work for?
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Perkins - direct
1 A. The FBI.
2 Q. For how long have you worked for the FBI?
3 A. For five plus years.
4 Q. Have you been assigned to the investigation of the bombing
5 of the American Embassy in Dar es Salaam Tanzania?
6 A. Yes, I have.
7 Q. Can you tell the jury where you were on October 5, 199?
8 A. I was in Cape Town, South Africa.
9 Q. And did there come a time when you were in Cape Town,
10 South Africa that you met Khalfan Khamis Mohamed?
11 A. Yes, I did.
12 Q. Where exactly did you meet him?
13 A. At the Cape Town International Airport in a holding cell.
14 Q. In whose custody was Mr. Mohamed at that time?
15 A. The home affairs officers in Cape Town.
16 Q. Can you tell us what the home affairs office is?
17 A. Basically they are immigration officials.
18 Q. Now, did there come a time that you interviewed Khalfan
19 Khamis Mohamed?
20 A. Yes, I did.
21 Q. And when was that?
22 A. October 5, 1999.
23 Q. At approximately what time?
24 A. At approximately 1:15.
25 Q. In the afternoon?
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Perkins - direct
1 A. In the afternoon.
2 Q. Can you tell us what happened when you first met Khalfan
3 Khamis Mohamed?
4 A. Myself and Special Agent Mike Forsee. We introduced
5 ourselves. We told him we were representatives of the US
6 government, and identified ourselves as FBI agents.
7 Q. And what did Khalfan Khamis Mohamed say in response to
8 anything?
9 A. He said he knew who the FBI was.
10 Q. After he said he knew what the FBI was, what did you do
11 next?
12 A. We then asked him that if he did decide to speak to us
13 could he speak to us in English.
14 Q. What did he say?
15 A. He said that he could.
16 Q. Did you ask him how it was he came to learn English?
17 A. Yes, we did.
18 Q. What did he say?
19 A. He told us that he had taken, he had learned English in
20 primary, secondary school; that he had taken a class in Dar es
21 Salaam in English, and that over the course of the last year
22 or more that he had spent in Cape Town, South Africa he had
23 spoken predominantly English.
24 Q. After you ascertained that Khalfan Khamis Mohamed spoke
25 and understood English, what happened next?
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Perkins - direct
1 A. We then told him that he was not in our custody and that
2 even though he was not in our custody, the American government
3 custody, that he was entitled to certain rights, and we wanted
4 to explain those rights to him.
5 Q. And then what happened?
6 A. At that point we pulled out a form that was written in
7 English and had written at the top, advice of rights. We
8 explained to him first we wanted him to understand that if he
9 had any questions whatsoever, he didn't understand something
10 we were talking to him about, to please stop us and that we
11 would explain it to him further.
12 We told him that he should tell the truth, and we
13 told him that if he did decide to speak to us, that was
14 something we could share with the court and with the
15 prosecutors, but that he should not entertain that we could
16 promise him any benefit whatever if he did decide to speak to
17 us.
18 Q. After you so informed Mr. Mohamed, what did you do next?
19 A. At that point we took the form and read it to him as he
20 looked on.
21 Q. After you read this form to him, what happened?
22 A. After reading the form to him we asked him, do you
23 understand what has just been read to you.
24 Q. What did Khalfan Khamis Mohamed say in response?
25 A. He stated affirmatively that he did.
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Perkins - direct
1 Q. Did you ask him anything else?
2 A. Yes, we did. We asked him specifically did he understand
3 what the word "rights" meant and he affirmatively said that he
4 did. We then asked him if he knew what a lawyer was and he
5 again said that he did.
6 Q. At that time did you show Khalfan Khamis Mohamed anything
7 else?
8 A. Yes, we did.
9 Q. What was that?
10 A. At that point we showed him a Swahili printed version of
11 the English form we had just read to him.
12 Q. What did you do with that Swahili form?
13 A. We asked Khalfan to read the Swahili form to himself.
14 Q. And did he?
15 A. Yes, he did.
16 Q. After he read the Swahili form what happened next?
17 A. At that point we asked him did the Swahili version of the
18 form that he had read to himself, was it the same as the
19 English version that we had read to him, and he said that it
20 was.
21 Q. Did you ask him if he understood his rights as depicted in
22 the Swahili form?
23 A. Yes, we did.
24 Q. And what did he say?
25 A. He said that he did understand his rights and was willing
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Perkins - direct
1 to speak with us.
2 Q. After he said he was willing to speak with you, what, if
3 anything, did he do?
4 A. At that point he signed both forms, the English form and
5 the Swahili form.
6 Q. Agent Perkins, I'm going to approach with what has been
7 premarked for identification as Government Exhibits 1052A and
8 B.
9 Can you tell us what 1052A is?
10 A. 1052A is the English advice of rights form that I've just
11 spoken of.
12 Q. Who signed it at the bottom?
13 A. I signed at the bottom as well as Special Agent Mike
14 Forsee and Khalfan Khamis Mohamed signed it as well.
15 Q. Is there a date and time indicated at the signature?
16 A. Yes, there is. 1:30 p.m. October 5, 1999.
17 Q. Can you take a look at 1052B and tell us what is?
18 A. 1052B is the Swahili translated version of the English
19 form that I've just spoken of as well.
20 Q. Are there any signatures at the bottom of that?
21 A. It contains my signature, the signature of Mike Forsee and
22 the signature of Khalfan Khamis Mohamed.
23 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, at this time we offer
24 Government Exhibits 1052A and B.
25 MR. STERN: No objection.
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1 THE COURT: Received.
2 (Government's Exhibits 1052A and B received in
3 evidence.
4 MR. KARAS: If we can display 1052A please.
5 Q. After Khalfan Khamis Mohamed signed those two forms what,
6 if anything, did he ask you?
7 A. At that point he asked us, does this mean I'm going to see
8 America.
9 Q. What did you say in response?
10 A. We told him, yes, there is a good chance that he would.
11 Q. And what, if anything else, did he ask you next?
12 A. Then he asked us if his case had already begun in America.
13 Q. What did you say?
14 A. We told him that it had.
15 Q. And did you tell him anything about that case in America?
16 A. We did. We explained to him a little bit about how
17 evidence is presented to a grand jury and the grand jury
18 issues an indictment. At that point we asked him do you know
19 what evidence is?
20 Q. And what did he say?
21 A. He said evidence is proof.
22 Q. Then what happened?
23 A. We said the indictment warrants were issued for him, and
24 at that point we showed him copies of two different warrants
25 containing the charges against him.
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1 Q. And did he indicate whether or not he understood the
2 charges that had been brought against him?
3 A. He did. He said that he read the warrants, looked at both
4 of them and said that he understood the charges against him.
5 Q. Now, after you showed him the warrants and he indicated he
6 understood the charges, what happened next?
7 A. At that point we wanted to inform him that we were showing
8 him the warrants, the reason for showing him the warrant was
9 not that he was under arrest pursuant to the warrants, but
10 that we wanted him to understand the charges that he had
11 against him as well as the purpose of the interview, why we
12 were there to talk to him.
13 Q. Did he indicate his willingness to talk to you at that
14 point?
15 A. He did. He said he understood the charges and he was
16 willing to speak to us.
17 Q. Did Khalfan Khamis Mohamed indicate to you why he was
18 willing to talk to you?
19 A. He said that basically because we had found him where he
20 was in Cape Town, that we already knew everything, so there
21 was no reason for him to tell us one thing when we knew that
22 in fact another was true.
23 Q. Did you ask Khalfan Khamis Mohamed if he had read anything
24 about his participation in the bombings in the media?
25 A. Yes, we did.
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1 Q. What did he say?
2 A. He said that he had seen some things on the news but he
3 had not really read anything about himself or the others
4 involved in the bombing.
5 Q. Now, you mentioned earlier that the interview began
6 approximately 1 in the afternoon. Can you tell us what time
7 the interview ended that day?
8 A. It ended at about around 10:15 or so.
9 Q. Where exactly did the interview take place that day?
10 A. It took place in the same holding cell where I had met him
11 at the Cape Town International Airport.
12 Q. Can you please describe to the jury what that holding cell
13 looked like?
14 A. As you enter the holding cell it had a door with bars that
15 served as the door. You walk into the room. To the left was
16 a bathroom, and then as you walk further into the room it kind
17 of opened up to your left. It had carpet on the floor. There
18 was two single beds one against one side of the wall and one
19 against the other side of the wall.
20 Q. During the interview that day on the 5th was Khalfan
21 Khamis Mohamed handcuffed?
22 A. He was not.
23 Q. And did either you or Agent Forsee have any firearms with
24 you?
25 A. No, we did not.
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1 Q. Was there anybody else in the room aside from you, Agent
2 Forsee and Khalfan Khamis Mohamed?
3 A. There were not.
4 Q. Now, what, if anything, did you tell Khalfan Khamis
5 Mohamed with respect to breaks that he could take during the
6 interview?
7 A. We told him that at any point if he needed a break for
8 food, for water, for a rest room break or for prayer, whatever
9 he needed he could stop us at any time, we would accommodate
10 him.
11 Q. And did he take any break during the interview that day?
12 A. Yes, he did.
13 Q. When he returned from the breaks what, if anything, did
14 you ask him?
15 A. We would generally tell him, do you mind if we ask you
16 more questions, and, you can stop whenever you want.
17 Q. Did he ever indicate an unwillingness to answer your
18 questions?
19 A. He always was willing to answer our questions.
20 Q. Now, did you interview Khalfan Khamis Mohamed the next day
21 October 6?
22 A. Yes, we did.
23 Q. At approximately what time did the interview begin that
24 day?
25 A. That day it was about 12:30.
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1 Q. And before you began the interview what, if anything, did
2 you do?
3 A. Before beginning that interview as, we had done the day
4 previously, we again advised him of his rights using the
5 English form as well as the translated Swahili form reading
6 the English form to him, having him read the Swahili form and
7 again asking him if he had any questions, did he understand
8 his rights. He said that he did and he again signed both
9 forms.
10 Q. Agent Perkins, I'm going to approach with what have been
11 marked for identification as Government Exhibits 1052C and D.
12 A. 1052C is the advice of rights form that we showed to
13 Khalfan with our signatures, mine, Special agent Forsee and
14 Khalfan Khamis Mohammed signed.
15 Q. And 1052D?
16 A. 1052D is the Swahili translation of that form that I
17 signed, Mike Forsee signed and Khalfan Khamis Mohammed signed.
18 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, at this time we offer
19 government 1052C and D.
20 MR. STERN: No objection.
21 THE COURT: Received.
22 (Government's Exhibits 1052C and D received in
23 evidence)
24 Q. Where did the interview take place on October 6?
25 A. October 6 it was in the same holding cell.
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1 Q. And can you tell us whether or not you had the same
2 arrangements with regard to breaks during the interview?
3 A. Yes, we did.
4 Q. Did Khalfan Khamis Mohamed take any breaks during the
5 interview that day?
6 A. He did. In fact, after we started the interview about
7 twenty minutes into the interview he requested a prayer break
8 and he took a 50 minute prayer break.
9 Q. How long did that interview last on the 6th?
10 A. That interview lasted until about 3:30, 3:40.
11 Q. In the afternoon?
12 A. In the afternoon.
13 Q. Now, did there come a time later on in the evening of
14 October 6th that you and Khalfan Khamis Mohamed and others
15 boarded an airplane?
16 A. Yes, we did.
17 Q. Can you tell us where that airplane went?
18 A. It went to the United States.
19 Q. Where in the United States?
20 A. Stuart Air Force base in Newburgh.
21 Q. Did you interview Khalfan Khamis Mohamed during the flight
22 back to New York?
23 A. We did.
24 Q. Before you began the interview what, if anything, did you
25 do?
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1 A. At that point on the we sat down with him on the airplane
2 we informed him he was now in our custody, he was now in the
3 custody of the United States; that as a result of that we had
4 to show him a different form. He was entitled to certain
5 rights, but it was a different form than we read previously
6 since he was now in our custody, and under arrest pursuant to
7 the two warrants that had been shown to him on October 5th.
8 Q. And was there a Swahili version of that form?
9 A. Yes, there was.
10 Q. And what did you do with those forms?
11 A. We read the English form to him, asked him if he
12 understood his rights. He said he did, and he signed that
13 form. We then gave him the Swahili version of the same form,
14 had him read that form, asked him if he understood his rights.
15 Again, said that he did, and he said he was willing to speak
16 to us.
17 Q. After he said he was willing to speak to you, did you do
18 anything with those forms?
19 A. He signed both forms in our presence.
20 Q. Agent Perkins, I'm approaching with what has been marked
21 for identification as Government Exhibits 1052E and F. Are
22 those the forms that Khalfan Khamis Mohammed signed on the
23 airplane?
24 A. Yes, they are.
25 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, we offer Government Exhibits
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1 1052E and F.
2 MR. STERN: No objection.
3 THE COURT: Received.
4 (Government's Exhibits 1052E and F received in
5 evidence)
6 Q. Was there similar arrangements with respect to breaks
7 during the interview on the plane?
8 A. Yes, there was.
9 Q. Now, Agent Perkins, do you see Khalfan Khamis Mohamed here
10 in the courtroom today?
11 MR. STERN: Identification is stipulated.
12 THE COURT: Identification is conceded.
13 Q. Agent Perkins, can you tell us whether or not Khalfan
14 Khamis Mohammed looks the same today as when you saw him on
15 October 5th and 6th?
16 A. On October 5th he had a very sparse little beard of a
17 beard, and a little more of a growth of a goatee. His beard
18 is much fuller here today. He was not wearing glasses at that
19 time either.
20 Q. Now, did you talk to Khalfan Khamis Mohamed about any
21 trips he took to Afghanistan?
22 A. Yes, we did.
23 Q. And when did he say he was in Afghanistan?
24 A. He said he was in Afghanistan in 1994.
25 Q. And did he tell you who it was that told him about the
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1 possibilities of going to Afghanistan?
2 A. He said that Fahad is the one who introduced him to
3 training in Afghanistan.
4 Q. Did Khalfan Khamis Mohamed indicate to you when it was he
5 met Fahad?
6 A. He met Fahad sometime prior to that prior to 1994.
7 Q. Where was it that he met him?
8 A. He met in Dar es Salaam.
9 Q. How was it that he met him?
10 A. He was introduced to Fahad through a mutual friend by the
11 name of Suliman.
12 Q. Why did Khalfan Khamis Mohamed say he went to Afghanistan?
13 A. He said he went there for religious and weapons training.
14 Q. And did he indicate to you whether or not he saw Fahad in
15 Afghanistan at this training?
16 A. He did. He said Fahad had preceded him to the training by
17 about a month.
18 Q. And did Mr. Mohamed indicate to you whether or not he
19 heard about Usama Bin Laden while he was in Afghanistan?
20 A. He stated that he did.
21 Q. Can you tell us whether or not he said he heard anything
22 about talk of jihad against the United States while he was in
23 Afghanistan?
24 A. He said he heard jihad against the United States being
25 discussed there.
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1 Q. What was the name of the camp that Khalfan Khamis Mohammed
2 said he went to in Afghanistan?
3 A. Manakando.
4 Q. And did he indicate to you what group he understood to be
5 responsible for running that camp?
6 A. He did he said it was Har Qatar.
7 Q. And how long did he say he was in Afghanistan?
8 A. He said he was there about nine to ten months.
9 Q. What type of training did Khalfan Khamis Mohamed say he
10 received in Afghanistan?
11 A. He said he received training in weapons and explosives,
12 religious training.
13 Q. Did he distinguish between basic and advanced training?
14 A. Yes, he did.
15 Q. And what was he taught in basic training?
16 A. In basic training he described having training in some
17 light weapons, handguns and rifles, surface to air missiles
18 and rocket launchers.
19 Q. What about advanced training? How did one get into
20 advanced training according to Khalfan Khamis Mohamed?
21 A. He stated you had to be selected to go to advanced
22 training.
23 Q. Was he selected?
24 A. Yes, he was.
25 Q. What types of advanced training did he say he received?
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1 A. He described explosive type training, connecting wires and
2 detonators.
3 Q. Did Mr. Mohamed indicate to you his purpose for going to
4 receive such training?
5 A. He said his purpose was to learn how to help his Muslim
6 brothers, if necessary, through armed struggle.
7 Q. When approximately did Khalfan Khamis Mohamed say he left
8 Afghanistan?
9 A. He left sometime in 1995.
10 Q. Did he leave anything behind?
11 A. He did.
12 Q. What was that?
13 A. He left a point of contact address for his brother
14 Mohammed in Dar es Salaam.
15 Q. Did you ask Khalfan Khamis Mohamed whether or not he ever
16 heard of the term bayat?
17 A. Yes, we did.
18 Q. What did he say?
19 A. He said he had not.
20 Q. And did you ask him about the term al Qaeda?
21 A. Yes, we did.
22 Q. And what did he say?
23 A. He said that al Qaeda was a formula system for what they
24 had carried out, talking about the bombing.
25 Q. And did you ask him whether or not he'd ever heard of a
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1 group called al Qaeda?
2 A. We did.
3 Q. And what did he say in response?
4 A. He claimed that he'd never heard of a group called al
5 Qaeda.
6 MR. STERN: Objection.
7 THE COURT: Overruled.
8 Q. Now, did you talk to Khalfan Khamis Mohamed about any
9 trips he had taken to Mombasa, Kenya?
10 A. Yes, we did.
11 Q. And did he say how many times he went there?
12 A. He went there three different times.
13 Q. And did you ask him about some of the people he said he
14 met there?
15 A. Yes, we did.
16 Q. Can you tell us who were some of the people he claimed to
17 have met?
18 A. He knew that Fahad was from Mombasa and he went there to
19 visit with Fahad, and Fahad introduced him to some others, a
20 man by the name of Hussain, and a man by the name of Sheik.
21 Q. And did he indicate to you whether or not he met a person
22 by the name of Suliman in Mombasa?
23 A. He did. He did meet up with Suliman in Mombasa.
24 Q. What did Mr. Mohamed say that Suliman did for a living?
25 A. He said he worked on a fishing boat.
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1 Q. And where did he say this boat went?
2 A. Mombasa, Limu, Kenya, and Somalia.
3 Q. And did Khalfan Khamis Mohamed indicate to you if the boat
4 was used for any purpose other than fishing?
5 A. He did.
6 Q. What was that?
7 A. He said it was also used for jihad.
8 Q. You mentioned there were a couple of other people that
9 Khalfan Khamis Mohamed met in Mombasa?
10 A. That's correct.
11 Q. Who are they?
12 A. He said a man by the name of Hussain, and a man by the
13 name of Sheik.
14 Q. Now, did you talk to Khalfan Khamis Mohamed about any
15 trips he might have taken to Somalia?
16 A. Yes, we did.
17 Q. And when did he say he went to Somalia?
18 A. He said he went to Somalia in 1997.
19 Q. What did he say he did there?
20 A. He said he went there, he went there twice, and the first
21 time he went there he was told by Hussain that they had some
22 Muslim brothers that needed help, and he told Khalfan to go
23 and help his Muslim brothers there.
24 Q. What did Khalfan Khamis Mohamed say he did when he went to
25 Somalia?
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1 A. He said he assisted at the training at the training camp
2 there and he described how he saw things similar to what he
3 had seen in Afghanistan, the light weapons, handguns, rifles,
4 surface to air missiles and rocket launchers.
5 Q. And did Khalfan Khamis Mohamed indicate to you how it was
6 he got to Somalia during this trip there?
7 A. He did.
8 Q. What did he say?
9 A. He said that Suliman dropped him off using the fishing
10 boat.
11 Q. Now, Agent Perkins, did you ask Khalfan Khamis Mohamed if
12 he participated in the bombing of the American Embassy in Dar
13 es Salam?
14 A. Yes, we did.
15 Q. What did he say?
16 A. He said that he was involved with a group of what he
17 called brothers, and that they were involved in a jihad
18 against America, including the bombing of the American Embassy
19 in Dar es Salam.
20 Q. Did you ask Khalfan Khamis Mohamed who were the brothers
21 with whom he participated in the bombing?
22 A. Yes, we did.
23 Q. What were the names he gave you?
24 A. He said a man by the name of Ahmed Khalfan, who was from
25 Zanzibar, Tanzania; a man by the name of Fahad from Mombasa,
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1 Kenya; a man by the name of Sheik from Mombasa Kenya; a man by
2 the name of Hussain who he also knew by the name Mustafa, who
3 was from Mombasa, Kenya.
4 He said there was a man by the name of Abdu Rachman
5 who he described as the engineer for the bomb, the man who
6 came to set the bomb to wire the bomb, and he said there was a
7 man by the name of Ahmed who he described as the suicide
8 driver of the bomb truck.
9 Q. Now, during the course of your interview with Khalfan
10 Khamis Mohamed did show him photographs of individuals?
11 A. Yes, we did.
12 Q. And did he recognize individuals?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. How was it that you had him indicate that recognition?
15 A. We asked him to write the name that he knew the person by
16 on the back of the photograph.
17 Q. Agent Perkins, I'm going to approach you with what have
18 been premarked for identification as Government Exhibits
19 1050F, 1050T, 1050K and 1050I. Starting with 1050F, can you
20 tell us what is?
21 A. This is one of the photographs we showed to Khalfan during
22 the course of the interview.
23 Q. Did he indicate whether or not he recognized the person in
24 that photograph?
25 A. Yes, he did.
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1 Q. How did he so indicate?
2 A. He wrote the name, as I stated, on the back that he knew
3 the individual by. He wrote the name Ahmed Khalfan and signed
4 his name.
5 Q. And now with respect to 105D, 1050I and 1050K, did Khalfan
6 Khamis Mohamed indicate to you whether he recognized those
7 individuals?
8 A. Yes, he did.
9 Q. How did he so indicate?
10 A. 1050D he stated that he knew this man by the name of Fahad
11 and he signed the back of that photograph. 1050K he stated
12 that he knew this man by the name of Sheik and he wrote the
13 name Sheik on the back, and signed his name on the back.
14 1050I he stated he knew this man by the name of Hussain or
15 Mustafa and he wrote those two names on the back as well as
16 his signature on the back.
17 MR. KARAS: Your Honor, at this time the government
18 offers 1050F, 1050T, 1050I and 1050K.
19 MR. STERN: No objection.
20 THE COURT: Received.
21 (Government's Exhibits 1050F, 1050T and 105