3 April 2001
Source: Digital file from the Court Reporters Office, Southern District of New York; (212) 805-0300.

This is the transcript of Day 25 of the trial, 2 April 2001.

See other transcripts: http://cryptome.org/usa-v-ubl-dt.htm


   2   ------------------------------x


   4              v.                           S(7) 98 Cr. 1023

   5   USAMA BIN LADEN, et al.,

   6                  Defendants.

   7   ------------------------------x

                                               New York, N.Y.
   9                                           April 2, 2001
                                               10:25 a.m.


  12   Before:

  13                       HON. LEONARD B. SAND,

  14                                           District Judge












                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300

   1                            APPEARANCES

            United States Attorney for the
   3        Southern District of New York
   4        KENNETH KARAS
            PAUL BUTLER
   5        Assistant United States Attorneys

            Attorneys for defendant Mohamed Sadeek Odeh
  11        Attorneys for defendant Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-'Owhali

  13        Attorneys for defendant Khalfan Khamis Mohamed

  16        Attorneys for defendant Wadih El Hage










                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300

   1            (Trial resumed)

   2            (Pages 3570-3573 sealed)

   3            (In open court)

   4            THE COURT:  The next order of business will be what?

   5            MR. FITZGERALD:  We are going to display several

   6   documents, about five minutes worth, and the next witness will

   7   be Sohail Anjum.  The witnesses today, until we get to

   8   Sciarini, they would not like to be sketched.

   9            THE COURT:  I think there is a representative of CNN

  10   here, so they are aware of that request.

  11            MR. FITZGERALD:  These witnesses all have to do with

  12   the stop of Odeh and chain of custody of clothing.

  13            THE COURT:  Am I correct that the consequence of

  14   going to daylight savings time is there is no need for a 4:30

  15   prayer break?

  16            MR. COHN:  I will seek information on that.

  17            MR. HERMAN:  I am informed the prayer break can take

  18   place after the court is in recess.

  19            (Jury present)

  20            THE COURT:  Good morning.  I apologize for a late

  21   start, because of efforts that have been made to expedite

  22   matters, and at the close of business today I hope to make a

  23   further statement to you about our schedule.  I think you will

  24   be pleased.

  25            At the close of the business on Tuesday I was handed

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300

   1   two notes, and I did not have an opportunity to respond.  On

   2   May 10 we will not sit in the morning, to allow a juror to

   3   attend to a happy occasion, and my congratulations about that.

   4            The other note was directed to the speed with which

   5   stipulations have been read to you, especially stipulations

   6   including phone numbers, names, addresses and so on.  Counsel

   7   have rattled them off at a rate which made it difficult if not

   8   impossible to make note of all the names and numbers.  I have

   9   shared your letter with counsel about slowing things down and

  10   leaving displays on the screen for a longer period of time.

  11            I should also advise you that at any time during your

  12   deliberations if you should wish to see any document,

  13   including any stipulation which has been entered into, you may

  14   do so.  So it isn't necessary to write every name and number.

  15   I can't keep up with it either.  I make a note of the

  16   stipulation number and the general nature of what it contains

  17   so that I know if I want to see a particular matter I can ask

  18   for stipulation 73, and so on.

  19            I will ask counsel to slow down because the note

  20   taking process becomes more feasible, but you should know if

  21   you make a note of the stipulation number and the general

  22   content, during your deliberations, by a process I will

  23   explain in the charge, you can ask to see the particular

  24   stipulation or if you wish all of the stipulations.

  25            MR. FITZGERALD:  Thank you, Judge.  We would like to

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300

   1   begin by displaying two documents seized during the search of

   2   Mercy International, the first one being Government's Exhibit

   3   621A.  We will just enlarge the subscriber on the phone bill,

   4   and I will read into the record Khalid A.H. al Fawazz, Box

   5   55200, Nairobi.

   6            Then the second document from the Mercy International

   7   search is 622A.  It is a xerox of a passport, and I will read

   8   the name listed, Khaled, K-H-A-L-E-D, A, H, al Fauwaz, A-L

   9   capital F-A-U-W-A-Z.  That was Government's Exhibit 622A.

  10            At this time Mr. Butler would read from a

  11   stipulation.

  12            MR. BUTLER:  Stipulation previously marked for

  13   identification as Government's Exhibit 181.

  14            THE COURT:  Stipulation 181.

  15            MR. BUTLER:  It is hereby stipulated and agreed by

  16   and between the parties that if called as a witness an

  17   employee of Senator Travel Services, Ltd., Nairobi, Kenya,

  18   would testify as follows:

  19            1.  Government's Exhibit 540 is a true and accurate

  20   copy of selected pages from the ticket register books of

  21   Senator Travel of the period January through August 1998.  The

  22   ticket register books record tickets purchased or issued by

  23   Senator Travel.

  24            2.  Government's Exhibit 541A through E are true and

  25   accurate copies of tickets for Pakistan International Airways

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300

   1   flight 744, departing on August 2, 1998, from Nairobi, Kenya,

   2   to Karachi, Pakistan, in the name of Sheik Ahmed Salim Swedan

   3   Anisa Swedan, Karima Swedan, Azzam Swedan, and Nuru Omar

   4   Basheeb.  These tickets were issued by Senator Travel on or

   5   about July 1, 1998.

   6            3.  Government's Exhibits 541F through 541I are true

   7   and accurate copies of tickets for Pakistan International

   8   Airways flight 744, departing on August 2, 1998, from Nairobi,

   9   Kenya, to Karachi, Pakistan, in the name of Mustafa Ali

  10   Elbishy, Fatma Saggar, Anas Elbishy and Yusra Elbishy.  These

  11   tickets were issued by Senator Travel on or about August 1,

  12   1998.

  13            4.  Government's Exhibits 541J through 541M are true

  14   and accurate copies of tickets for Pakistan International

  15   Airways flight 744, departing on August 2, from 1998, from

  16   Nairobi, Kenya, to Karachi, Pakistan, in the names of Ahmed

  17   Ahmed, Khadija Hemed, Amina Abdalla Hemed, and Fatma Hemed.

  18   The ticket for Ahmed Ahmed was issued by Senator Travel on or

  19   about October 3, 1998.  The tickets for Khadija Hemed, Amina

  20   Abdalla Hemed, and Fatma Hemed were issued by Senator Travel

  21   on or about May 5, 1998.

  22            5.  Government's Exhibit 541N is a true and accurate

  23   copy of a ticket for Emirates Air flight 739 departing Nairobi

  24   on August 14, 1998, to Moroni, the Comoros, and for further

  25   travel to Karachi, Pakistan, via Dubai, United Arab Emirates,

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300

   1   in the name of Fazul Abdalla.  The ticket was issued by

   2   Senator Travel on or about August 7, 1998.

   3            It is further stipulated and agreed that Government's

   4   Exhibits 540 and 541A through 541N may be received in evidence

   5   at trial.  It is further stipulated and agreed that this

   6   stipulation may be received in evidence as a government

   7   exhibit at trial.

   8            The government would offer this stipulation, which is

   9   Government's Exhibit 181, and the Exhibits Government's

  10   Exhibits 540, and 541A through N in evidence.

  11            THE COURT:  Government's Exhibits 181, which is the

  12   stipulation, and Exhibits 540 and 541A through N are received.

  13            (Government's Exhibits 181, 540, and 541A-541N

  14   received in evidence)

  15            MR. FITZGERALD:  Judge, at this time the government

  16   would read from a stipulation marked and received in evidence

  17   as Government's Exhibit 50.  We read from certain paragraphs

  18   of that stipulation last week.  I will now read from paragraph

  19   6, which indicates that the parties stipulate that

  20   Government's Exhibit 518 is the original register for the

  21   Hilltop Hotel for the period between July 3, 1998, and August

  22   18, 1998, and Government's Exhibit 518 may be admitted in

  23   evidence.

  24            At this time we would offer Government's Exhibit 518.

  25            THE COURT:  Received.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300

   1            (Government's Exhibit 518 received in evidence)

   2            MR. FITZGERALD:  At this time we would display two

   3   pages from Government's Exhibit 518.

   4            The entry, if it is appearing on people's screens,

   5   should be for an Abu Bakr Khalfan, A-B-U, B-A-K-R,

   6   K-H-A-L-F-A-N, for 1-8-98.

   7            The second entry that will be displayed is from a

   8   later page, and if we could focus on the page reflecting

   9   August 4 entry, 4/8/98, the top entry on the page, which

  10   indicates Abdul Basit, and on the right, the far column

  11   indicates 0011061 as the number.  If we can enlarge the page

  12   again and indicate that the number 0011061 appears under

  13   passport number or i.d. card in the name Abdul Basit and the

  14   date of arrival is 4/8/98.  This is from the register of the

  15   Hilltop Hotel.

  16            I would now return to a stipulation marked as

  17   Government's Exhibit 50.

  18            JUROR:  There is something falling off the ledge

  19   here.

  20            THE COURT:  What is it?  Dirt?

  21            JUROR:  It is on the chairs, Judge.

  22            THE COURT:  Why don't we take a recess and I will get

  23   the building maintenance to see what it is.

  24            (Recess)

  25            THE COURT:  Ladies and gentlemen, I am sorry for the

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300

   1   inconvenience.  It has all been dusted and checked, and it is

   2   just a further illustration of how difficult it is sometimes

   3   to know how long something is going to take.

   4            Mr. Fitzgerald.

   5            MR. FITZGERALD:  Thank you, Judge.  Returning to the

   6   stipulation marked Government's Exhibit 50, paragraph 7.  It

   7   is stipulated by the parties that Government's Exhibits 519A

   8   through 519C are true and accurate copies of the business

   9   records of the Eagle Travel agency in Mombasa, Kenya.  It is

  10   further stipulated that if called to testify, the employee at

  11   Eagle Travel who sold the tickets in the name of Abdull Bast

  12   Awadah, spelled A-B-D-U-L-L, capital B-A-S-T, capital

  13   A-W-A-D-A-H, and Fahid Masalam, F-A-H-I-D, M-A-S-A-L-A-M,

  14   would testify that both tickets were purchased by Fahad,

  15   F-A-H-A-D, Masalam, M-A-S-A-L-A-M, on August 3, 1998, in

  16   exchange for total payment of $936 cash.

  17            Government's Exhibits 519A through 519C may be

  18   admitted in evidence.

  19            Your Honor, I would offer 519A through C at this

  20   time.

  21            THE COURT:  Received.

  22            (Government's Exhibits 519A through 519C received in

  23   evidence)

  24            MR. FITZGERALD:  At this time we would display

  25   Government's Exhibit 519A.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300

   1            THE COURT:  Stipulation 50 is already in evidence?

   2            MR. FITZGERALD:  Yes, Judge.  Page 1, and just

   3   reading the name Fahid Masalam, F-A-H-I-D, M-A-S-A-L-A-M, and

   4   if we could display the fourth page of that exhibit, and the

   5   green card reads at the top M-S-A-L-A-M/F-A-H-I-D Mohamed,

   6   M-O-H-A-M-E-D, Ally, A-L-L-Y, Mister, M-R.  Underneath that,

   7   two lines down, it reads Awadah, A-W-A-D-A-H, with a slash

   8   mark, followed by Abdull Bast, A-B-D-U-L-L, B-A-S-T, followed

   9   by M-R for mister, and underneath that, next line says Y-E,

  10   and then P-P-T, and the number 00110161.  Beneath that, in the

  11   far column under C-A-R-R, it says P-K under F-L-T, 746 and

  12   then it says 6 August.

  13            Now turning to 519B, if we could display that on the

  14   screen, and focusing on the name on the top portion

  15   handwritten, Abdalla Ahmed, spelled A-B-D-A-L-L-A, separate

  16   word A-H-M-E-D, and the ticket below shows a route from

  17   Nairobi to Karachi, K-A-R-A-C-H-I, to Sanaa, S-A-N-A-A, and

  18   the date listed for Nairobi to Karachi is August 6 at the time

  19   of 1500.  And then the Karachi to Sanaa, S-A-N-A-A, leg is

  20   open.

  21            If we display the second page of that exhibit, and

  22   that is a card which reads Mr. Abdulla, A-B-D-U-L-L-A, Ahmed,

  23   A-H-M-E-D, Abdallah, A-B-D-U-L-L-A, followed by the initials

  24   Y-E, and then the initials P-P-T, and the number 0325191.

  25            At this time, your Honor, I would return to

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300

   1   Government's Exhibit 50, the stipulation already received in

   2   evidence, and read from paragraph 12, which indicates that the

   3   parties stipulate that Government's Exhibit 523 is a true and

   4   accurate copy of records of the Yemeni government concerning

   5   Yemen passport 325191, and Government's Exhibit 523T is a fair

   6   and accurate translation of that passport, the records

   7   concerning that passport.

   8            I would offer at this time, your Honor, Government's

   9   Exhibit 523 and 523T.

  10            THE COURT:  Received.

  11            (Government's Exhibits 523 and 523T received in

  12   evidence)

  13            MR. FITZGERALD:  If we could display 523, the first

  14   page, and if we could enlarge the photograph in the upper left

  15   corner, and if we could put that on the left side of the

  16   screen, and on the right side of the screen, if we put

  17   Government's Exhibit 4, page 6.  And reading from below on

  18   Government's Exhibit 4-6, Abu Mohamed, M-O-H-A-M-E-D, el

  19   Masry, M-A-S-R-Y, and below that Saleh, S-A-L-E-H.

  20            I will now return to Government's Exhibit 50, the

  21   stipulation, and read from paragraph 8.  It is stipulated that

  22   Government's Exhibits 520A and 520B are true and accurate

  23   copies of business records of Pakistani International Airways.

  24   Government's Exhibits 520A and 520B may be admitted in

  25   evidence.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300

   1            At this time, your Honor, I would offer 520A and

   2   2520B in evidence.

   3            THE COURT:  Received.

   4            (Government's Exhibits 520A and 520B received in

   5   evidence)

   6            MR. FITZGERALD:  If we could display on the screen

   7   Government's Exhibit 520A, and if we could enlarge the

   8   passenger name, Awadah, A-W-A-D-A-H, slash Abdull Bast,

   9   spelled again A-B-D-U-L-L, B-A-S-T, followed by the word M-R.

  10   And if we can restore the full item again reflecting a flight

  11   from Nairobi to Karachi, if we could enlarge that line,

  12   including the date column to the right, showing 06 August.

  13   And on the far left column, if we could enlarge again, the

  14   reference to the Yemen PPT and the number 0011061.  And just

  15   reading the top right column -- it does not need to be

  16   enlarged, just the date, it says 03 August 1998, Eagle Travel

  17   Service.

  18            We will now display Government's Exhibit 520B, and

  19   reading the passenger's name, Msalam, M-S-A-L-A-M slash

  20   F-A-H-I-D, followed by the word mister, M-R.  And if we could

  21   step back, again we have a flight from Nairobi to Karachi, and

  22   the date reflected says 06AUG for August, and again looking

  23   back at the entire ticket, the upper right corner says August

  24   3, '98, and again I should note that both 520A and 520B, the

  25   word honoured, spelled the British way, H-O-N-O-U-R-E-D, is

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Anjum - direct

   1   stamped across the tickets.

   2            Your Honor, at this time we would call as a witness

   3   S-U-H-A-I-L, Anjum, A-N-J-U-M, and also swear in an Urdu

   4   translator to assist as a stand-by interpreter.

   5            (Ravi Kotru duly sworn as Urdu interpreter)


   7        called as a witness by the government,

   8        having been duly sworn, testified through

   9        the interpreter as follows:



  12   Q.  Sir, would you face me and try to look at the microphone.

  13   It will help you be heard from afar.

  14            Can you tell the jury what you do for a living.

  15   A.  I am a subinspector with Pakistan immigration.

  16   Q.  Directing your attention three years ago to August 7,

  17   1998, were you then a subinspector with Pakistani immigration?

  18   A.  Yes.  On August 7, 1998, at that time I was a subinspector

  19   at group rifles -- group in charge at arrivals international,

  20   karachi airport.

  21   Q.  Did there come a time on the morning of August 7, 1998,

  22   when you met a flight coming in from Nairobi, Kenya?

  23   A.  I just started my duty for the day.  I just started

  24   working that day.

  25   Q.  What time did your shift start that day?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Anjum - direct

   1   A.  8:00.

   2   Q.  Did anything unusual happen when you met the people coming

   3   off the plane from Nairobi, Kenya?

   4   A.  Well, see, what's usual, the group-in-charge usually stays

   5   behind the counter, and the passengers who have been cleared

   6   already, their passports are checked.  The stamps are looked

   7   at again.

   8   Q.  Were you doing the job of rechecking the people coming

   9   from the flight in Nairobi?

  10   A.  Yes, I checked those people.

  11   Q.  Did you notice anything out of the ordinary when you

  12   checked, rechecked the passports of the people coming from

  13   Nairobi?

  14   A.  Yes.  One passenger, whose name Abdul Basit, B-A-S-I-T, he

  15   was in front of me and he put his passport in front of me, and

  16   on his passport picture there was a beard, but the man in

  17   front of me didn't have a beard, and his coloring was

  18   different.  It was much fairer.  But the picture on the

  19   passport, the one on the passport was a little darker.  So I

  20   asked him how come there is a mismatch between you and the

  21   passport picture.

  22   Q.  What if anything did the man say in response?

  23   A.  He responded, how could I say that, that this was my

  24   imagining.  So I repeated to him the differences again from

  25   the picture and his real person, that there was a difference

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Anjum - direct

   1   of beard, there was a difference of coloring.  And when he was

   2   in front of me he couldn't look me straight in the eyes.  His

   3   eyes were downcast.  He was looking down.

   4   Q.  So what did you do then?

   5   A.  So I came to a conclusion that this passport didn't belong

   6   to -- that this was not a genuine case, this passport didn't

   7   belong to this person.

   8   Q.  So what did you do?

   9   A.  So my in-charge, Mr. Riaz Gondal, who was standing right

  10   by me --

  11   Q.  Why don't we stop there.  You mentioned Riaz, R-I-A-Z, and

  12   could you spell Gondal?

  13   A.  G-O-N-D-A-L.

  14   Q.  Can you explain what you meant by your in-charge, what

  15   that meant?

  16   A.  He who was standing by me, he also noticed that there was

  17   something fishy, the guy was not looking at me straight in my

  18   eyes.

  19   Q.  So what happened then?

  20   A.  So I told him that I was convinced this passport was not

  21   his, it doesn't belong to him.  In my local lingo, I would

  22   call it man change.

  23            THE COURT:  Still happening?

  24            MR. FITZGERALD:  The air conditioners kicked in,

  25   Judge.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Anjum - direct

   1            THE COURT:  Is it still coming in?

   2            JURORS:  Yes.

   3            MR. FITZGERALD:  Judge, I think they want to keep

   4   going but they want it off.


   6   Q.  Sir, forgetting what your conversation was with the man,

   7   what happened to the man?  Where did he go?

   8   A.  Since I am considered an expert in Pakistani immigration

   9   now --

  10            MR. HERMAN:  Judge, I object.  It is not responsive.

  11            MR. FITZGERALD:  We will consent to a motion to

  12   strike.

  13   Q.  Sir, if you could just listen to my question.  Don't tell

  14   us what you thought or what you said.  You were standing with

  15   a man in the immigration area at the airport.

  16   A.  Yes.

  17   Q.  Did someone take him someplace else?

  18   A.  So what transpired is that my inspector Riaz, when I told

  19   him that the passport didn't belong to him --

  20            MR. HERMAN:  Objection.

  21            THE COURT:  Two words.  What happened?  What

  22   happened?

  23   A.  So he took him with him and took him to his office.

  24   Q.  When Mr. Gondal took this person to his office, did you

  25   remain at your post?  Yes or no.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Anjum - direct

   1   A.  Yes.

   2   Q.  Did you later go to Mr. Gondal's office and see that

   3   person in Mr. Gondal's office?

   4   A.  Yes, for a little while, yes, I did go to Mr. Gondal's

   5   office.

   6   Q.  When you went in the office, did you see any items there?

   7   A.  Yes, the item I saw was a bag which was open and there

   8   were some clothing items there.

   9   Q.  What do you recall about what the bag looked like?

  10   A.  It was, the material was something like what parachutes

  11   are made out of, something very loose, fibrous stuff.

  12   Q.  What if anything did you see inside the bag or removed

  13   from the bag?

  14            MR. HERMAN:  I am sorry.  I have an objection.  There

  15   are two questions there.  I think it should be broken down.

  16            THE COURT:  Yes, sustained.

  17   Q.  What items did you see in the bag?

  18   A.  Some clothing and maybe a couple magazines.  One of them

  19   was even open, right on top.

  20   Q.  Did you ever take the bag yourself?

  21   A.  No.

  22   Q.  Let me approach you with what has been premarked as

  23   Government's Exhibit 526A and B for identification.

  24   A.  Yes.

  25   Q.  I ask you to look at the item marked Government's Exhibit

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Anjum - direct

   1   526A, and because there is dust on it, if you could just use

   2   the gloves, and ask if you recognize what the item in your

   3   hand is, Government's Exhibit 526A?

   4   A.  Yes.  This piece recalls for me the same document that I

   5   saw that time.  It's the same man.  It's the same passport.

   6   Q.  That is the passport that the person you stopped on August

   7   7 was carrying?

   8   A.  Yes.  This is the passport that man was holding, the one

   9   that he presented to me on August 7.

  10            MR. FITZGERALD:  I would offer Government's Exhibit

  11   526A.

  12            THE COURT:  Received.

  13            (Government's Exhibit 526A received in evidence)

  14   Q.  If you look at the item in front of you, Government's

  15   Exhibit 526B.

  16   A.  Yes.

  17   Q.  If you could just tell us what Government's Exhibit 526B

  18   appears to be.

  19   A.  This was the authorized visa that he was traveling to

  20   Pakistan on.

  21   Q.  Does it list a passport number on that visa, if you can

  22   read it?

  23   A.  I am not sure.

  24   Q.  If you can't read it, don't try.

  25   A.  Passport number -- I can see the passport number.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Anjum - direct

   1   Q.  Can you tell us what the passport number is.

   2   A.  It's a little dim here.

   3   Q.  Don't strain.

   4            Going back to 526A, the passport, is there a passport

   5   number in that passport?

   6   A.  Yes.

   7   Q.  If you could just read the passport number into the

   8   record.

   9   A.  011061.

  10   Q.  Is there a country?  What country is the passport from?

  11   A.  Yemeni.

  12   Q.  One last question, sir.  You mentioned that this happened

  13   at the start of your shift at 8:00.  Was that 8:00 in the

  14   morning or in the evening?

  15   A.  This was 8 a.m. shift, which goes on until 2 p.m.

  16   Q.  And obviously 8 a.m. Pakistani time, correct?

  17   A.  Yes, 8:00 in the morning Pakistani time.

  18            MR. FITZGERALD:  Thank you.  I have nothing further.


  20   BY MR. HERMAN:

  21   Q.  Good morning, Mr. Anjum.

  22   A.  Good morning.

  23   Q.  Mr. Anjum, unless I tell you that I want you to say what

  24   people said, all I am asking you is what you did.  Is that

  25   understood?  Understood?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                                Anjum - cross

   1   A.  Can you give it to me again, please.

   2   Q.  I am not going to ask you what people said.  I am only

   3   going to ask you what you did, or what you saw.  Do you have

   4   any questions?

   5   A.  No, it's OK.

   6   Q.  Thank you.  It is my understanding that you were a

   7   subinspector of immigration at that time.

   8   A.  Subinspector then and even now, yes, subinspector.

   9   Q.  You were working in the Karachi airport?

  10   A.  Yes.

  11   Q.  And your shift started at approximately 8:00 in the

  12   morning on August 7, 1998; is that correct?

  13   A.  Yes.

  14   Q.  And your job was to check people's passports as they came

  15   through the airport; is that right?

  16   A.  Yes, to recheck.

  17   Q.  I am sorry, recheck?

  18   A.  Recheck, yes.

  19   Q.  Did someone have the job of checking them before you?

  20   A.  Yes, they stamp it.  They are called stamping officers.

  21   Q.  Stamping officers?

  22   A.  Yes.

  23   Q.  But your job is to make sure, or one of your jobs, to make

  24   sure that the picture looks like the person who is carrying

  25   the passport; is that correct?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                                Anjum - cross

   1   A.  Amongst other responsibilities this is one, yes.

   2   Q.  And to determine whether the passport is a legitimate

   3   passport for that passenger.

   4   A.  Yes, that and to verify if there is something wrong with

   5   the picture, something wrong with the visa.

   6   Q.  The flight that you were checking that morning was PIA

   7   flight 746, is that right?

   8   A.  Yes, that is the flight.

   9   Q.  Were there other subimmigration officers also on duty at

  10   that time?

  11   A.  Yes, there are, there are definitely other subinspectors

  12   on work, but there is only one group-in-charge.

  13   Q.  Were you in charge or was someone else in charge?

  14   A.  I was the group-in-charge and the in-charge was Riaz

  15   Gondal.

  16   Q.  That is Mr. Gondal, who is your supervisor; is that right?

  17   A.  Yes, he is the superior officer.  He is the inspector, I

  18   am the subinspector.

  19   Q.  When the flight landed that morning, approximately how

  20   many passengers got off the flight?

  21   A.  I can't recall.

  22   Q.  Was it the usual number of people that you would expect to

  23   arrive on the flight that morning?

  24   A.  Yes, it would be a normal count, same number of people

  25   that come normally.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                                Anjum - cross

   1   Q.  There came a time when you were presented with a passport

   2   that you have identified here this morning; is that correct?

   3   A.  Yes.

   4   Q.  That is Government's Exhibit 526A that you already had a

   5   chance to look at before.

   6   A.  Yes, I did see it, yes.

   7   Q.  Mr. Anjum, when you were handed that passport that

   8   morning, you looked over to the person who had given you the

   9   passport; is that right?

  10   A.  Yes, absolutely.  That man had this passport, the man who

  11   stood in front of me had this passport that morning.

  12   Q.  And you looked at the picture in the passport?

  13   A.  Yes.

  14   Q.  And you looked at the man?

  15   A.  Yes.

  16   Q.  And the picture was very different than the man that you

  17   were looking at.

  18   A.  Different, yes.

  19   Q.  Different facial hair, right, no beard?

  20   A.  That man was without a beard but the passport picture had

  21   a beard.

  22   Q.  And the skin coloration of the man in the passport was

  23   different than the skin coloration of the man that was in

  24   front of you?

  25   A.  Definitely, the man who stood in front of me, he was

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                                Anjum - cross

   1   fairer, but the one in the picture in the passport was darker.

   2   Besides, his features were very different.

   3   Q.  His facial features were different than the person on the

   4   photo in the passport; is that right?

   5   A.  It was an absolute mismatch.

   6   Q.  Because it was an absolute mismatch, you knew right away

   7   that this was not a legitimate passport.

   8   A.  Absolutely, that this passport didn't belong to him.

   9   Q.  Did you actually raise it up and say this is not your

  10   passport, something to that effect, what you said?

  11   A.  I told him this didn't match.  And he was not looking me

  12   in my eye.  And besides my in-charge, who was standing next to

  13   me, even he saw what was happening.

  14   Q.  At that point the man was avoiding your look, he was

  15   looking down; is that right?

  16   A.  Well, very initially when he gave me the passport he

  17   looked me straight in my face, but later on he put his eyes

  18   down.

  19   Q.  So when you first saw him you had a very good look at him.

  20   A.  Absolutely.  It's part of my job to evaluate a face right

  21   in the first look, gaze.

  22   Q.  So you knew right away that this was suspicious?

  23   A.  Absolutely.  I was a hundred percent sure it didn't belong

  24   to him.

  25   Q.  And you reported this to your supervisor?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                                Anjum - cross

   1   A.  So my in-charge, I reported to him.  He happened to be

   2   standing right next to me.  I told him here is the passport,

   3   it doesn't belong to him.

   4   Q.  Was Mr. Gondal standing right next to you?

   5   A.  Absolutely, right next to me.

   6   Q.  So he was in a position to see everything that happened.

   7   A.  Yes, he saw, he witnessed everything.

   8   Q.  As a result of your determination that this was a man

   9   change, the person was detained at the airport; is that right?

  10   A.  He was detained, yes, as a consequence.

  11   Q.  You told us that a little bit later you looked at a bag.

  12   A.  Yes.  That was luggage he was carrying.  After I gave the

  13   passport to Mr. Gondal, so they took the bag inside.

  14   Q.  After you gave the passport to your supervisor

  15   Mr. Gondal -- is that correct?

  16   A.  Yes, absolutely, to Gondal.

  17   Q.  And then what happened to the bag?

  18   A.  So later on when I went into the office there, I saw the

  19   bag, and it was open.  There was some clothing items and a

  20   magazine.

  21   Q.  When this man who came up with the bad passport approached

  22   you, was he carrying anything at that time?

  23   A.  That's the carry-on, the handbag that he was carrying.

  24   That was all he had.

  25   Q.  The same bag that was taken to the office a little bit

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                                Anjum - cross

   1   later?

   2   A.  Yes, that was the bag that was taken to Mr. Gondal's

   3   office.

   4   Q.  Was he carrying one bag or more than one bag?

   5   A.  I saw just one there.

   6   Q.  With regard to your position, were you in a place where

   7   people would go after they had gotten all their luggage,

   8   including carry-on and checked luggage?

   9            THE INTERPRETER:  I am sorry.

  10            MR. HERMAN:  It's a bad question.  I will withdraw

  11   it.

  12   Q.  When people get to your station.

  13   A.  Yes.

  14   Q.  Is this at a point when they have gotten all of their

  15   luggage?

  16   A.  See, what happens is, first they have to go through the

  17   health counter and then the immigration counter.  Once they

  18   have cleared immigration, then they collect their baggage and

  19   clear the customs.  That's the procedure.

  20   Q.  When you see them, do they have all of their luggage all

  21   collected?

  22   A.  The ones who come to us probably have their carry-on

  23   luggage with them, handbags.  But the major baggage is

  24   collected later.

  25   Q.  So your concern is really checking the passport against

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                                Anjum - cross

   1   the passenger; is that correct?

   2   A.  Yes, passport.

   3   Q.  You are not concerned in your job with checking luggage or

   4   bags or that type of thing.

   5   A.  Well, even though it is not a part of our responsibility,

   6   but if somebody is suspected, we might bend the rules and

   7   check the bags.

   8   Q.  Did you bend the rules and check the bag in this case?

   9   A.  No, I just saw it there.  I didn't check it.

  10   Q.  When you saw it, was the bag open?

  11   A.  When I went in, at that instant the bag was open, I could

  12   see some clothing items and a magazine on top.

  13   Q.  Were all the items inside the bag or had they been removed

  14   and taken --

  15   A.  Well, the way I saw it was, the bag was open and I could

  16   see the items that were contained by the bag.  That's the way

  17   I saw it, the whole thing.

  18            THE COURT:  You are now talking about in Mr. Gondal's

  19   office?

  20            THE WITNESS:  Yes, absolutely.

  21   Q.  And it appears that you never actually touched the bag or

  22   the items in the bag; is that correct?

  23   A.  I didn't touch anything.  My job was to pass along

  24   whatever needed to be passed along.  What they did with the

  25   rest of the story, I don't know.  It is not part of my

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                                Anjum - cross

   1   responsibility.

   2   Q.  When you discovered that the passport from this passenger

   3   did not match the passenger, did that hold up your line of

   4   people going through?

   5   A.  Well, it's a matter of two or three or four minutes,

   6   because it comes from practice.  My job is, we get that kind

   7   of experience we make an instant evaluation whether it's going

   8   to take long or not, and in the meantime, the people who are

   9   on line, they wait patiently, because this kind of

  10   passenger --

  11            THE COURT:  I think you have answered the question.

  12   Perhaps if the question can be answered yes or no you should

  13   suggest it.

  14            MR. HERMAN:  Thank you, your Honor.

  15   Q.  If you know, Mr. Anjum, what time was it that you stopped

  16   this passenger with the bad passport?

  17   A.  Well, the flight landed around 8:45, and normally it is

  18   about 10 minutes before a passenger gets to my counter.

  19   Q.  So it was approximately 9:00 in the morning in Karachi

  20   when this took place; is that right?

  21   A.  Thereabouts, yes.  I am not sure.

  22   Q.  Are you, Mr. Anjum, familiar with the different, generally

  23   the different time seasons in terms of what time it is in

  24   another country?

  25   A.  I am not very familiar with the time zones in different

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                                Anjum - cross

   1   countries.

   2            MR. HERMAN:  Gerard, could you please put up

   3   Government's Exhibit 259, please.

   4            The government will stipulate 259 into evidence, your

   5   Honor.

   6            THE COURT:  It has not previously been received?

   7            MR. HERMAN:  It didn't look like it.

   8            MR. FITZGERALD:  Not received previously but we will

   9   stipulate.

  10            THE COURT:  259, being a time zone map, is received.

  11            (Government's Exhibit 259 received in evidence)

  12   Q.  Mr. Anjum, can you see Government's Exhibit 259 on the

  13   screen?

  14   A.  Yes, I am looking at it.

  15   Q.  Let me ask you this.  Pakistan is east of Nairobi, Kenya;

  16   is that correct?

  17   A.  I can't see Nairobi here.

  18   Q.  Do you see different time seasons on that map?

  19   A.  I don't understand this.

  20   Q.  OK.  Let me ask you this.  When it is 9:00 a.m. in

  21   Pakistan, is it earlier or later in Kenya, Nairobi?

  22   A.  I don't have an idea about the subject.

  23   Q.  You don't know, OK.

  24            MR. HERMAN:  We may produce a stipulation on the

  25   subject at some point.  That is all I have.  Thank you.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                                Anjum - cross

   1            THE COURT:  Anything more from this witness?

   2            MR. FITZGERALD:  No, Judge.

   3            THE COURT:  Thank you.  You may step down.

   4            (Witness excused)

   5            MR. FITZGERALD:  The government next calls Riaz,

   6   RIAZ, Gondal, GONDAL.


   8        called as a witness by the government,

   9        having been duly sworn, testified as follows:



  12   Q.  Good morning, sir.

  13   A.  Good morning.

  14   Q.  If I could ask you to keep your voice up but also tell you

  15   that you are free to use the translator to your left if it is

  16   easier to answer questions.

  17            Can you tell the jury what you do for work.

  18   A.  I am working as inspector in FIA, Federal Investigation

  19   Agency in Karachi.

  20   Q.  As part of your duties with the Federal Investigative

  21   Agency, do you work in the immigration capacity at the Karachi

  22   airport?

  23   A.  Yes, I work as immigration officer at Karachi airport

  24   during 1998.

  25   Q.  Directing your attention to August 7, 1998, were you

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Gondal - direct

   1   working that day at the Karachi airport?

   2   A.  I was the in-charge of shift A of immigration at Karachi

   3   airport on 7 of August 1998.  That day of 7 of August 1998 was

   4   a morning that starts at 800 hours to 1400 hours.

   5   Q.  So it went from 8:00 in the morning until --

   6   A.  1400 hours.

   7   Q.  2:00 in the afternoon.  Thank you.

   8            I am going to ask you some questions about what

   9   happened on the morning of August 7.  I would like you to tell

  10   me what you saw or what you did but not to describe

  11   conversation.

  12            THE COURT:  There is no question.

  13   Q.  Did you see inspector Sohail, S-O-H-A-I-L, Anjum,

  14   A-N-J-U-M, dealing with a passenger that morning?

  15   A.  I just went close to the --

  16            THE COURT:  I am going to suggest that you ask

  17   questions and I am going to recommend that you use the

  18   interpreter.

  19            (Continued on next page)







                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Goudal - direct

   1   Q.  Mr. Goudal, if we could use the interpreter so that the

   2   jury can understand easier with your accent.

   3            If I could ask you this question, just yes or no, did

   4   you see Mr. Suhail Anjum dealing with a particular passenger

   5   on the morning of August 7th, 1998, coming off of a flight

   6   from Nairobi?

   7   A.  Yes, sir.

   8   Q.  Thank you.  And did you see what Mr. Suhail Anjum was

   9   doing?

  10   A.  He was just checking the passport of the suspect of the

  11   person in this way.

  12   Q.  He was looking up?

  13   A.  Holding up, standing, while he was standing, and I was

  14   just in front of him looking the passenger, who was looking

  15   downward, and Anjum was just this way checking the passport

  16   and I thought the --

  17   Q.  Don't tell us what you thought.

  18            Did you then take, did you take the passenger away

  19   from the area where he was with Mr. Anjum?

  20   A.  When Mr. --

  21            THE COURT:  Could you answer that yes or no.

  22   A.  Yes, I took that passenger to my office room.

  23   Q.  Okay.  And when you got to your office room, did the

  24   passenger have any baggage with him?

  25   A.  At that moment he was not holding his baggage because I

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Goudal - direct

   1   took him away from the concourse to my office room.  He was

   2   not allowed to cross the immigration barrier where the baggage

   3   is collected after that.

   4   Q.  So when you brought him to your office, he did not have

   5   baggage with him; is that correct?

   6   A.  He was not holding the baggage that I remember.

   7   Q.  Did there come a time when his baggage was collected?

   8   A.  When it was over, I sent a guy with him and he just

   9   recognize his bag and collected that --

  10            THE COURT:  Would you please -- I appreciate your

  11   desire to do this in English, but it would be easier for the

  12   reporter and the jury if we use a translater.

  13            (Through the interpreter)

  14            THE WITNESS:  That's fine.

  15   Q.  Okay.  I will try to ask you yes or no questions.  Did you

  16   send someone who works with you with the passenger to collect

  17   his baggage?

  18   A.  Yes, I did send somebody with him there.  I did send a

  19   person there to get this man's baggage.

  20   Q.  And when the baggage came, how many items were there?

  21   A.  Some clothing items there.  Some clothing items, a towel,

  22   a wrap-around, magazines, and a sarong kind of thing, a sheet.

  23   Q.  How many bags were there?

  24   A.  (In English) Only one bag.  One handbag.

  25   Q.  And was there any money?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Goudal - direct

   1            THE INTERPRETER:  I'm sorry?

   2   Q.  Did the passenger have any money with him?

   3   A.  Not in his bag, but on his person, yes.

   4   Q.  Do you recall how much money he had with him?

   5   A.  Maybe 500 U.S. dollars or 14 -- 1462 Kenyan shillings.

   6   Q.  Let me approach you with what has been received in

   7   evidence as Government Exhibit 526A and what has been marked

   8   for identification as Government Exhibit 526B and I'll hand

   9   you gloves to keep dust from getting on your hands.

  10            If you could look at Government Exhibit 526A, the

  11   passport, in front of you and ask you if you recognize it.

  12   A.  I read it.

  13   Q.  Do you recognize that item?

  14   A.  This passport is from Yemen.  It belongs to the same

  15   passenger who was stamped on August 7th.

  16   Q.  And at some point did you make a Xerox copy of that

  17   passport, yes or no?

  18   A.  Yes, I did.

  19   Q.  Let me approach you with what has been marked as

  20   Government Exhibit 526C for identification and I ask you if

  21   Government Exhibit 526C is a copy you made of that passport,

  22   yes or no?

  23   A.  Yes, sir.  Yes.

  24            MR. FITZGERALD:  Your Honor, I would offer Government

  25   Exhibit 526C.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Goudal - direct

   1            MR. HERMAN:  No objection.

   2            THE COURT:  Received.

   3            (Government Exhibit 526C received in evidence)


   5   Q.  Now, can you describe what the bag looked like that the

   6   passenger had?

   7   A.  It was carry-on bag made out of canvas.

   8   Q.  And let me approach you.  What particular items do you

   9   recall being in the bag that stick out in your mind?

  10   A.  The clothing and magazines and maybe some books, a towel

  11   and underwear, a sheet of some sort.  It was the kind of

  12   clothing people wear.  It was the regular part of his

  13   traveling.

  14   Q.  Let me approach you with some items.  First, let me

  15   approach you with what has been marked for identification as

  16   Government Exhibit 529 for identification, referring just to

  17   the bag and not to its contents.

  18   A.  (In English) It's the same bag the passenger had.

  19            MR. HERMAN:  There's no question pending.

  20            THE COURT:  Yes.  It's stricken.  Ask a question.

  21   Q.  Do you recognize what Government Exhibit 529 is?

  22   A.  Yes, this belongs to the same passenger who was stamped on

  23   August 7th.

  24   Q.  I'm going to show you some items from the bag and some

  25   items packaged separately, and I just ask you to tell me

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Goudal - direct

   1   whether or not you recognize those particular items, yes or

   2   no.

   3   A.  That's right.  That's fine.

   4   Q.  First I'll approach you with what has been marked as

   5   Government Exhibit 530A, 536 and 537 marked for

   6   identification.

   7            530A, as in apple, 536 and 537, just tell us simply

   8   whether or not you recognize those items now.  If you do say

   9   yes, if you don't say no.

  10   A.  Yes, I do recognize these items.  These were with the

  11   passenger, these items.

  12   Q.  Let me approach you with what has been marked as

  13   Government Exhibit 535B.  I will remove 535B from a brown bag,

  14   a plastic bag, and ask you if you recognize this item.

  15   A.  I saw that this was in the bag, in the bag of the suspect.

  16   It's called dojti, original language.

  17   Q.  And so we understand, the person that had a passport, if

  18   you can just refer to him as a passenger from here on out.

  19            Did the passenger, what was it about this item 535B

  20   that stuck in your mind?

  21   A.  Well, see, I lived most of my life, as I said, in

  22   Pakistan, this thing is part of the everyday gear.  So here,

  23   men use pants here, but this is warn as a matter of course.

  24   There's a word for it called dojti, D-O-J-T-I, and it piqued

  25   my curiosity and why would this passenger be carrying this

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Goudal - direct

   1   kind of an item being--

   2            MR. RICCO:  Your Honor, there's no question pending

   3   before the witness.

   4            THE COURT:  No, he is responsive.

   5            The question is what is that stuck in your mind, and

   6   he is explaining what stuck in his mind.

   7   A.  And why would an Arab be carrying this kind of an item.

   8   Q.  Now, with regard to the books and the magazine in front of

   9   you, by looking at them can you tell whether or not they are

  10   the actual books that were in the bag, or do they just look

  11   like books, books and magazines?

  12   A.  Positively the same books.

  13   Q.  Why are you so sure they are the same books?

  14   A.  I rifled through the bag.  Actually, I went through it

  15   very carefully to find a scrap of evidence about his I.D. and

  16   about his identity, so I kind of brushed these books with my

  17   hand, dusted them.

  18   Q.  Let me approach you with Government Exhibit 545.

  19            MR. FITZGERALD:  Honor, may I approach with

  20   Mr. Herman briefly at the sidebar?

  21            THE COURT:  Why don't we take our mid, whatever it

  22   is, recess.

  23            (Jury not present)

  24            MR. FITZGERALD:  If I could have a moment with

  25   Mr. Herman, we may not need a sidebar.  I just want to tell

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Goudal - direct

   1   him something.

   2            THE COURT:  We'll take a five-minute recess.

   3            (Recess)

   4            (Jury present)

   5            THE COURT:  Mr. Fitzgerald, when the jury is seated

   6   you may resume.

   7            MR. FITZGERALD:  Thank your, Judge.


   9   Q.  Now, sir, if you could answer the following question yes

  10   or no:  Did there come a time when you obtained an envelope

  11   from the passenger that you were dealing with?

  12   A.  Yes, sir.

  13   Q.  Let me approach you with what has been marked as

  14   Government Exhibit 542-I.D. for identification and separately

  15   a sheet of paper marked Government Exhibit 3542.

  16            Do you, recognizing that Government Exhibit 542 for

  17   identification has been discolored, changed, do you generally

  18   recognize what that is?

  19   A.  Yes, this is something that I got, the same passenger gave

  20   to me.

  21   Q.  And is Government Exhibit 542 a photocopy of that document

  22   which contained a writing on it at the time that you obtained

  23   it?

  24   A.  Yes, sir.

  25            MR. FITZGERALD:  Your Honor, I would offer Government

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Goudal - direct

   1   Exhibit 542-I.D. and Government Exhibit 542.

   2            THE COURT:  Yes, received.

   3            (Government Exhibits 542-I.D. and 542 received in

   4   evidence)


   6   Q.  If you would also answer the following question yes or no:

   7   Did there come a time when you handed over the custody of this

   8   passenger to another Pakistani official -- I'm sorry.  Strike

   9   that.

  10            Did there come a time when you handed over the

  11   custody of the property of this passenger to another Pakistani

  12   official?

  13   A.  Yes, sir.

  14   Q.  Let me approach you with what has been marked as

  15   Government Exhibit 545R for identification, and is that a copy

  16   of a receipt you obtained when you obtained -- when you handed

  17   over the property to another official, yes or no?

  18   A.  Yes, sir.

  19            MR. FITZGERALD:  Your Honor, I would offer Government

  20   Exhibit 545R.

  21            MR. HERMAN:  Objection.

  22            THE COURT:  Received.

  23            MR. HERMAN:  There is an objection.

  24            THE COURT:  There is an objection.

  25            May I see the document, please.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Goudal - direct

   1            MR. FITZGERALD:  Your Honor, I also hand up to the

   2   Court 545R-T, the translation.

   3            (Pause)

   4            THE COURT:  I'll see counsel and the reporter in the

   5   robing room.  Sorry, ladies and gentlemen.

   6            (Continued on next page)




















                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Goudal - direct

   1            (In the hallway)

   2            THE COURT:  What is the basis of the objection?

   3            MR. HERMAN:  Judge, he didn't create this receipt.

   4   The name of the person who created the receipt has been

   5   redacted from the receipt so there is no way of knowing or the

   6   jury to know who created receipt.

   7            THE COURT:  You want voir dire?  You want voir dire

   8   and ask him how he knows that this is the document?

   9            MR. HERMAN:  Outside the presence of the jury?

  10            MR. RICCO:  Judge, the objection is that this is

  11   someone else's statement, that is not the witness's statement.

  12            THE COURT:  Which he can adopt.  You want to ask him,

  13   you want to pursue how he knows that that's the receipt that

  14   he got?

  15            MR. FITZGERALD:  Yes, Judge.

  16            MR. HERMAN:  Judge, there's an additional objection.

  17   The name of the person from whom he got it has been redacted.

  18   We can't even introduce that as to who the person is or what

  19   his role is or call him as a witness.  This is --

  20            MR. FITZGERALD:  But, your Honor, we can deal with

  21   that.  My understanding is we were trying to avoid getting

  22   anything into the fact that there was any interrogation going

  23   on in Pakistan.  I think if we go down that road on ---

  24            MR. HERMAN:  This is a property receipt.  It has

  25   nothing to do with interrogation.  I agree we don't want to

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Goudal - direct

   1   get into the interrogation.  Somebody created the property

   2   receipt and we don't know who it was.  We only know this man

   3   did not create it.

   4            MR. FITZGERALD:  Just so the record the clear,

   5   Mr. Herman has the name.  Counsel has the name on the receipt.

   6   We redacted it for jury purposes.

   7            THE COURT:  The name won't have any meaning or

   8   significance to the jury absent some other development about

   9   who that person was.

  10            MR. RICCO:  Judge, can we have a moment?  Just one

  11   moment?

  12            THE COURT:  Yes.

  13            (Pause)

  14            MR. HERMAN:  Judge, the objection is withdrawn.

  15            THE COURT:  The objection is withdrawn.  The

  16   objection to the receipt of that document?

  17            MR. HERMAN:  Yes, your Honor.

  18            (Continued on next page)








                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                            Goudal - cross/Herman

   1            (In open court)

   2            THE COURT:  The objection is withdrawn and 545R is

   3   received in evidence.

   4            MR. HERMAN:  Thank you, your Honor.

   5            (Government Exhibit 545R received in evidence)

   6            MR. FITZGERALD:  At this time, your Honor, I have no

   7   further questions.

   8            THE COURT:  Very well.

   9            Mr. Herman.

  10            MR. HERMAN:  Thank you.

  11            THE COURT:  On behalf of defendant Odeh.


  13   BY MR. HERMAN:

  14   Q.  Good afternoon, Mr. Goudal.

  15            I'm not going to ask you what you said or what anyone

  16   else said.  You understand?

  17   A.  Yes.

  18   Q.  I'm interested in what you saw and what you did and what

  19   happened.  Do you understand?

  20   A.  That's fine.

  21   Q.  Now, on the morning of August 7th, 1998, you were in

  22   charge of inspections at the Karachi airport?

  23   A.  I was in charge of shift A, immigration shift A.

  24   Q.  And that began at approximately 8:00 in the morning; is

  25   that right?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                            Goudal - cross/Herman

   1   A.  From, it starts at 8 and ends at 2 in the afternoon.

   2   Q.  And sometime in that morning, flight PIA746 arrived from

   3   Nairobi in Karachi; is that right?

   4   A.  Yes, it originated in Nairobi and it arrived in Karachi

   5   via Dubai.

   6   Q.  It stopped in Dubai?

   7   A.  I'm not sure if it stopped there, but I know that it comes

   8   en route Dubai to Karachi.

   9   Q.  What time did it arrive in Karachi?

  10   A.  Maybe 8:30, 8:45, but before 9 in any event.  After 8:30.

  11   Q.  If you know, when it's 8:30 in Karachi, is it earlier, the

  12   same time, or later in Nairobi, Kenya?

  13   A.  Because Nairobi is in Eastern Pakistan, so it will be

  14   earlier in Nairobi.

  15   Q.  When it's 8:30 in the morning in Karachi, it is earlier in

  16   Nairobi, is that true?

  17   A.  Yes, sir.

  18   Q.  At some point you became aware that there was a passenger

  19   who had presented a passport and there was a problem with the

  20   passport; is that right?

  21            THE COURT:  You can answer that yes or no.

  22   A.  Yes, sir.

  23   Q.  And when you learned of that, where were you?  Where were

  24   you located?

  25   A.  I was right in front of the Suhail Anjum, who was the lead

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                            Goudal - cross/Herman

   1   checking officer.  I was right there.

   2   Q.  And did you notice that Mr. Anjum was paying particular

   3   attention to the passport?

   4   A.  Yes, sir.

   5   Q.  And in fact, at some point you had indicated -- and I'll

   6   say for the record, Judge -- Mr. Anjum's hands were raised

   7   above his head about a foot and he was looking up at the

   8   passport, is that accurate?

   9   A.  It was raised.  I wouldn't vouch for whether it was a foot

  10   or not.

  11   Q.  Raised above his head, is that fair?

  12   A.  Yes.  Right in front of him.

  13   Q.  Okay.  And Mr. Goudal, you also had an opportunity around

  14   that time to look at the photo in the passport, is that true?

  15   A.  Well, he gave me the passport, Mr. Suhail Anjum, he gave

  16   me the passport with these words, that this passport is

  17   suspect.

  18   Q.  I'm not asking for the words.  Let me repeat the question.

  19            Did you look at the passport?

  20   A.  Yes, I also looked at the passport.

  21   Q.  And then did you look at the passenger?

  22   A.  Yes, I did look at the passenger as well, yes, sir.

  23   Q.  And based on what you observed with regard to the

  24   photograph in the passport and what you were looking at in

  25   terms of the passenger, did you come to a determination that

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                            Goudal - cross/Herman

   1   this was a false passport or an improper passport?

   2            THE COURT:  I think that's also a yes or no.

   3   A.  Yes.

   4   Q.  I understand that at the time that this was taking place

   5   the passenger was not permitted to go on and leave the

   6   airport; is that right?

   7   A.  That's correct, yes.

   8   Q.  And this process of examining the passport and looking at

   9   the passenger took a few minutes, is that fair to say?

  10   A.  It took about -- it would take a little while longer.

  11   Q.  I'm sorry, more than two minutes?

  12   A.  Well, when he got to the front of the lead checking

  13   officer, I'm not aware of how long he wrote it but was looking

  14   at it.

  15   Q.  So it may have been two minutes, three minutes, four

  16   minutes, in that general range?

  17   A.  (In English) I can't say.

  18   Q.  You don't know, okay.

  19            At the time that it was determined that the passport

  20   did not belong to the passenger, were there other people in

  21   line behind the passenger?

  22   A.  Yes, the passengers were stopped there in the passenger

  23   area for retaking of their passports.

  24   Q.  All right.  And during the time that you and Mr. Anjum

  25   were looking at the passport and the passenger, those other

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                            Goudal - cross/Herman

   1   people had to stay and remain in line, is that true?

   2   A.  Suhail was checking the document.  I stood in front of

   3   him.  He hand over the passport saying that is suspected case.

   4   I just asked the passenger to look towards me.  When he looked

   5   towards me, I have a photograph in front of me.

   6            MR. HERMAN:  Objection, Judge.  I'm sorry.  He's not

   7   answering the question.  I have to object.  I'll ask another

   8   question.

   9            THE COURT:  Repeat your question and try so that we

  10   can get a yes or no answer.  And I instruct the witness if you

  11   can answer yes or no, please do so.

  12            THE WITNESS:  I try to do a yes or no answer, but if

  13   a question begs for an explanation, I'll try to give an

  14   explanation.

  15            THE COURT:  Fine.

  16   BY MR. HERMAN:

  17   Q.  I will try to ask a question that calls for a yes or no

  18   answer.

  19            There's no question.  There's no question.

  20            THE COURT:  Just ask it.

  21   Q.  During the time when you and Mr. Anjum were with the

  22   passenger, were the other passengers in line delayed?

  23   A.  This question, I can't answer this question yes or no.

  24   This will need to be explained.

  25            THE COURT:  It's already been answered, so --

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                            Goudal - cross/Herman

   1            MR. HERMAN:  I'll move on, Judge.  Thank you.

   2   Q.  Mr. Goudal, with regard to the items in the bag, did you

   3   take any photographs of the items in the bag?

   4   A.  No.

   5   Q.  Did you do anything other than look at the items?

   6   A.  No.

   7   Q.  Were there any shoes in the bag?

   8   A.  I don't remember.

   9   Q.  Were there any socks in the bag?

  10   A.  I don't remember.

  11   Q.  Was it your job to take over the custody of the bag?

  12   A.  Since the passenger was inadmissible, it was our job to

  13   keep -- let him keep the luggage so he could be deported.

  14   Q.  So was it your intention to give him the bag, give the bag

  15   back to him?

  16   A.  Well, see, it happens, it's like this.  The passenger we

  17   intend to deport, he usually ends up carrying his own bag.  We

  18   don't keep his bags.

  19            MR. HERMAN:  Thank you.  That's all I have, your

  20   Honor.

  21            THE COURT:  Anything further of this witness?

  22            MR. FITZGERALD:  No, Judge.

  23            THE COURT:  Thank you.  You may step down.

  24            (Witness excused)

  25            MR. FITZGERALD:  The government calls Gabriel

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Mutunga - direct

   1   Mutunga.


   3        called as a witness by the government,

   4        having been duly sworn, testified as follows:

   5            THE CLERK:  Please be seated.  Please state your full

   6   name, sir.

   7            THE WITNESS:  My name is Gabriel Mutunga.

   8            DEPUTY CLERK:  Could you spell your last name.

   9            THE WITNESS:  Mutunga, Mutunga, M-U-T-U-N-G-A.

  10            (Swahili interpreter standing by)



  13   Q.  Sir, what do you do for a living?

  14   A.  I am the criminal investigations officer in charge of

  15   Central Province, Kenya.

  16   Q.  Directing your attention to August 1998, were you also

  17   working for the Kenyan police at that time?

  18   A.  Correct.

  19   Q.  And let me direct your attention to a specific day, August

  20   14th, 1998, the week after the bombing.  Did there come a time

  21   when you were sent to an airport?

  22   A.  Correct, your Honor.

  23   Q.  And do you recall what time of day you went to the

  24   airport?

  25   A.  I went to airport at around 6 in the evening.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Mutunga - direct

   1   Q.  And did there come a time when an airplane arrived that

   2   you were to meet?

   3   A.  Correct.

   4   Q.  And what time did the airplane arrive?

   5   A.  It arrived at around 7:30 in the evening that same day.

   6   Q.  What did you do when the airplane arrived?

   7   A.  I went inside the aircraft -- I mean, the aircraft,

   8   accompanied by a Pakistani high commissioner in Kenya.

   9   Q.  Can you explain to the jury who the Pakistani high

  10   commissioner is or what a high commissioner is?

  11   A.  He's like an ambassador, but he was acting.

  12   Q.  And what did you and the Pakistani high commissioner do

  13   once you boarded this aircraft?

  14   A.  While inside, I took over the suspect which the Pakistani

  15   people had brought to Kenya.

  16   Q.  Let me focus on items of property.  Did you take custody

  17   of any property once you were on board the aircraft with the

  18   high commissioner?

  19   A.  Can you say again?

  20   Q.  Did you take custody of a person when you were on board

  21   the airplane, yes or no?

  22   A.  Yes.

  23   Q.  And did you also take custody of property, personal

  24   belongings, the luggage, on the aircraft?

  25   A.  Yes, I did.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Mutunga - direct

   1   Q.  Can you tell the jury how you went about the process of

   2   taking custody of the luggage, the property?

   3   A.  The items or the personal belongings were displayed on the

   4   seat.  They were spread on the seat, on the plane seat.

   5   Q.  Spread?

   6   A.  They were put, they were put on the seat, and then there

   7   was handing over certificate which described all the items I

   8   was to take over from them.

   9   Q.  And did you do anything to verify that the items on the

  10   seat were reflected or -- strike that.

  11            Did you do anything to make sure that the items

  12   listed on the handing over certificate were in fact the items

  13   placed on the seat?

  14   A.  Yes, I did.

  15   Q.  Tell the jury what you did.

  16   A.  I read the list and I confirmed the items mentioned were

  17   there, each, I mean one-by-one, all the items listed in the

  18   list.  I mean, I checked and found they were correct.

  19   Q.  Who prepared the list?  Did you prepare the list or

  20   somebody else?

  21   A.  I beg your pardon?

  22   Q.  Who prepared the list?

  23   A.  Who gave me the list?

  24   Q.  Who prepared it?  Who made it?

  25   A.  It had been -- it came with the Pakistani offices.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Mutunga - direct

   1   Q.  So they gave you a list and then you checked the list

   2   against the items that were on the seat?

   3   A.  Correct.

   4            THE COURT:  I want to interrupt.

   5            The Court reminds you, Mr. Interpreter in Swahili,

   6   that you are still under oath.

   7            THE INTERPRETER:  Pardon?

   8            THE COURT:  That you are still under oath.

   9            THE INTERPRETER:  Yes.  I understand.

  10   Q.  And what were the -- were the items contained in anything?

  11   How many items of luggage were there?

  12   A.  The items were many.  I cannot recall all of them.  There

  13   were many personal items.

  14   Q.  Were they contained in anything?

  15   A.  There was, what I can remember, I remember I saw a

  16   passport, I saw air tickets, used air tickets, I saw personal

  17   clothings, like underwears, socks, a belt.  There was also a

  18   wristwatch and there was -- all these items were put in a blue

  19   handbag.

  20   Q.  Let me approach you with what has been marked as

  21   Government Exhibit 546.

  22            I have shown to you what has been marked for

  23   identification as Government Exhibit 546 and I ask you to take

  24   a look at that document and tell me whether or not you

  25   recognize it.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Mutunga - direct

   1   A.  Yes, these are the items listed down, these are the same

   2   items I took over from the Pakistani office officials.

   3   Q.  And the document in front of you, the three pieces of

   4   paper, Government Exhibit 546, what is that, the piece of

   5   paper in front of you, the document?

   6   A.  This is the handing over, taking over certificate.

   7   Q.  And did you sign that certificate?

   8   A.  Yes, I did.

   9   Q.  Did you sign it on that day?

  10   A.  On that same day, yes.

  11            MR. FITZGERALD:  Your Honor, I would offer Government

  12   Exhibit 546.

  13            THE COURT:  Received.

  14            (Government Exhibit 546 received in evidence)


  16   Q.  Let me approach you with what has been premarked as

  17   Government Exhibit, I believe, 529 for identification.  I ask

  18   you to take a look at that, just the outside, and tell me if

  19   you recognize that.

  20   A.  Yeah, I can identify the bag.  It is the same as the -- it

  21   looks like the same one I took over that day.

  22   Q.  What color is the bag?

  23   A.  It's dark blue or black.  Dark -- it's black.  Blue.

  24   Q.  And what did you do with the bag once you got it on that

  25   day, August 14th?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Mutunga - direct

   1   A.  I went with it, after taking over all the items which was

   2   spread on the seat, I took them and put inside the bag.

   3   Q.  And when you got on the airplane, were the items, when you

   4   first got on the plane, were they in the bag or were they

   5   spread on the seat outside the bag when you walked on the

   6   plane?

   7   A.  When?

   8   Q.  When you walked through the plane, do you remember if the

   9   items were in the bag at that time and then taken out, or if

  10   they were sitting on the seat outside the bag, if you recall?

  11   A.  Yeah, I recall.  These items were removed from the same

  12   bag, spread on the seat.

  13   Q.  Who removed the items from the bag and put them on the

  14   seat?

  15   A.  The Pakistani officials.

  16   Q.  And who put the items from the seat back into the bag?

  17   A.  It's in my custody after I took over, after confirming the

  18   list.

  19   Q.  What did you do once you had the bag?  What did you do

  20   with the bag once you left the area of the airport?

  21   A.  You mean from the airport?

  22   Q.  Yes.

  23   A.  I took the custody of the bag and went with it with the

  24   other items to the office at CID headquarters.

  25   Q.  What did you then do with the bag?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Mutunga - direct

   1   A.  I went with the bag and the suspect.  It was in the

   2   evening.  I handed over the suspect to the custody of CID, and

   3   then because there was nobody there who I could hand over the

   4   bag, I went with it to my office, which is not within CID

   5   headquarters, and I put the same bag at my cabinet and locked

   6   it there overnight.

   7   Q.  Did do anything with the bag the next day?

   8   A.  Yes.  The next day I removed the bag and I went with it to

   9   CID headquarters again and then I handed over to a Mr.

  10   Muchori.

  11   Q.  Can you spell that for the record.

  12   A.  Mr. Edward Muchori, M-U-C-H-O-R-I.

  13   Q.  Can you tell the jury how you went about the process of

  14   handing over the items to Mr. Edward Muchori?

  15   A.  I spread them, all items, on a small table which was in

  16   his office and I showed him all the items and I gave him this

  17   list also for him to confirm whether the terms were correct.

  18   This is list which had been prepared by the Pakistani people.

  19   And then I also prepared my holding list for handing over,

  20   taking over for me to him, which, after he confirmed, he

  21   signed on that list I had prepared.

  22   Q.  Were there any other Kenyan officials present when you

  23   handed over the items to Mr. Muchori?

  24   A.  Yes, there was another police officer, a CID officer,

  25   known as Rosemary, I think Wanjiru.  Rosemary Wanjiru.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Mutunga - direct

   1   Q.  And if you could just tell us physically who touched the

   2   items in the bag during that time when you were at the CID

   3   headquarters turning over the items.

   4   A.  It was myself and Rosemary.

   5   Q.  And what did you do with the items?  When did you touch

   6   the items?

   7   A.  I mean, I touched all the items as I was counting them for

   8   her.

   9   Q.  Did you take the items out of the bag yourself?

  10   A.  Myself, no.  It is Rosemary who took the items back in the

  11   bag.

  12   Q.  I'm sorry?

  13   A.  It is Rosemary.

  14   Q.  You said took back.  Let me see if we can clarify this.

  15   Who took them out of the bag?

  16   A.  It is myself who took them out of the bag.

  17   Q.  And who put them back in the bag?

  18   A.  Rosemary Wanjiru.

  19   Q.  And were either of you wearing gloves at the time that you

  20   handled the items in the bag?

  21   A.  I beg your pardon?

  22   Q.  Did you wear gloves when you handled the items in the bag?

  23   A.  No.

  24   Q.  Did Rosemary wear gloves, if you recall?

  25   A.  She did not wear any.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Mutunga - direct

   1   Q.  You mentioned that you prepared your own list of items.

   2   Let me approach you with what has been marked as Government

   3   Exhibit 547.

   4            I'm going to ask you to take a look at Government

   5   Exhibit 547 and tell me if you recognize what that is.

   6   A.  Yes.

   7   Q.  Do you recognize that?

   8   A.  This is the list, the handing over, taking over

   9   certificate which I prepared as I handed it over to Mr. Edward

  10   Muchori, which is signed after taking over the items and also

  11   signed, and this was on the 15th of August.

  12   Q.  And did you verify that the contents of that document were

  13   accurate before you signed it?

  14   A.  I --

  15   Q.  Did you make sure that the items listed on that document

  16   were accurate to the best of your ability before you signed

  17   it?

  18   A.  Yes.

  19            MR. FITZGERALD:  Your Honor, I would offer Government

  20   Exhibit 547.

  21            MR. RICCO:  Brief voir dire, your Honor?

  22            THE COURT:  Yes.

  23            MR. RICCO:  May I approach the witness?

  24            THE COURT:  You are going to examine this witness?

  25            MR. RICCO:  Yes, sir.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Mutunga - direct

   1            THE COURT:  Voir dire is the opportunity given to

   2   opposing counsel to ask questions as to the admissibility of

   3   the document in evidence.  It's not cross-examination.  It is

   4   related solely to the basis for the introduction of the

   5   exhibit.


   7   BY MR. RICCO:

   8   Q.  Mr. Mutunga, what day did you sign this document?  What

   9   date?

  10   A.  This one?

  11   Q.  Yes, sir.

  12   A.  It was on the 15th of August, 1998.

  13   Q.  Who typed, prepared the document, you or someone else?

  14   A.  It is not myself.

  15   Q.  Someone else typed it?

  16   A.  Somebody typed.  I prepared.  I prepared and then typed.

  17   Q.  Okay.  I notice that on the second page of the document

  18   there is a handwritten entry.  If you can turn to the second

  19   page, there's an item P.  Do you know who has handwritten

  20   there?

  21   A.  Oh, yes.

  22   Q.  You notice that?  Let me ask you a question, do you notice

  23   it?

  24   A.  Yes, I know the handwriting.

  25   Q.  Okay.  Yes.  Do you know that writing?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Mutunga - direct

   1   A.  It is me.

   2   Q.  Okay.  Did you put that handwritten information in before

   3   or after you signed this document on August 15th, 1998?

   4   A.  It was after, after I realized that I did not include the

   5   green jacket.

   6   Q.  When did it come to you -- when did you realize that you

   7   left something off the typewritten document?

   8   A.  It was around the same time that day, that day.  During

   9   that same time as I was handing over that same day, that same

  10   time.

  11            MR. RICCO:  No objection, your Honor.

  12            THE COURT:  547 received.

  13            (Government Exhibit 547 received in evidence)

  14            MR. FITZGERALD:  I have nothing further, Judge.

  15            MR. RICCO:  Your Honor, this would be a good time to

  16   break.

  17            THE COURT:  Be a good time to break.  We'll break for

  18   lunch, then, and we'll resume at 2:15.

  19            (Luncheon recess)







                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Mutunga - direct

   1                         AFTERNOON SESSION

   2                             2:15 p.m.

   3            THE COURT:  We prepared a memorandum of the hearsay

   4   issue, the bottom line of which is --

   5            MR. WILFORD:  Excuse me, your Honor.  No one is here

   6   for Mr. Al-'Owhali.

   7            THE COURT:  I will repeat it when he comes back.  It

   8   does not particularly concern Mr. Al-'Owhali.  The bottom line

   9   concludes that if the question is did Mr. Al-'Owhali mention

  10   Mr. Odeh and the answer is no, that that is not precluded by

  11   the hearsay rule, and also concludes that if the government on

  12   redirect said did Mr. Al-'Owhali say anything about his

  13   intention about disclosing all names that isn't precluded by

  14   the hearsay rule, which depending on the precise language of

  15   the questions and the answers -- the reason I am sharing the

  16   memorandum with you is that maybe it suggests that a

  17   stipulation would deal with it, both on what would be said on

  18   direct and indirect, and why don't we take that up on

  19   Wednesday.

  20   GABRIEL MUTUNGA, resumed.

  21            (Jury present)

  22            THE COURT:  Mr. Wilford, what is the next order of

  23   business?

  24            MR. FITZGERALD:  Yes, one question I omitted to ask,

  25   and I forgot again.  Thank you.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Mutunga - direct

   1   DIRECT EXAMINATION continued


   3   Q.  Mr. Mutunga, when you put the items in your locked cabinet

   4   on the night of the 14th, what other types of items were kept

   5   in the cabinet?

   6   A.  Other cases but no more exhibits.

   7   Q.  Were there any more exhibits involving the bombing in that

   8   cabinet?

   9   A.  No.

  10   Q.  Did any of your other cases involve bombings or

  11   explosives?

  12   A.  No.

  13            MR. FITZGERALD:  Thank you.  Nothing further.


  15   BY MR. RICCO:

  16   Q.  Good afternoon, Detective Mutunga.  The day the bombing

  17   happened in Kenya, August 7, 1998, did you respond to the

  18   bombing site?

  19   A.  Yes, I did.

  20   Q.  And I take it that you, like many other people, helped out

  21   at the scene.

  22   A.  Helped?

  23   Q.  Yes.  Did you help?

  24   A.  No.

  25   Q.  Were you present at the bombing scene after it happened?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Mutunga - cross

   1   A.  When it happened?  Can you repeat again.

   2   Q.  Sure.  Let me start all over.  The day the bombing took

   3   place was August 7, 1998, right?

   4   A.  Yes.

   5   Q.  You were a policeman on duty that day, weren't you?

   6   A.  I was on duty, yes.

   7   Q.  When the bombing happened, you went to the scene of the

   8   bombing; isn't that correct?

   9   A.  Yes, I did.

  10   Q.  While you were at the scene of the bombing, did you assist

  11   with helping people from the scene?

  12   A.  No, I did not.

  13   Q.  Did you move or touch anything while you were there?

  14   A.  I did not touch or move anything.

  15   Q.  You walked in, right?

  16   A.  I was there, but I never touched or moved anything.

  17   Q.  Did your feet touch anything while you were there?  Did

  18   your feet touch anything while you were there?  Your feet.

  19   A.  Yes.  Of course I stepped on the ground.

  20   Q.  Did your clothes come in contact with people or things

  21   while you were there?  The clothing that you were wearing, did

  22   they come in contact with people that day?  Did anybody brush

  23   up against you that day?  (Interpreted)

  24   A.  Well that one, I cannot remember.

  25   Q.  Muchari was responsible for the entire investigation;

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Mutunga - cross

   1   isn't that correct?

   2   A.  He was not -- yes, he was in charge.

   3   Q.  Did you see him at the bombing location on August 7, 1998?

   4   A.  I did not see him.

   5   Q.  After August 7, 1998, did you ever go back to that

   6   location?

   7   A.  Yes, I went back again.

   8   Q.  Did you go on the 8th?

   9   A.  On the 8th, yes, I was there.

  10   Q.  Did you touch anything or anybody on that day?

  11   A.  I never touched anything.  I was there.

  12   Q.  What about on August 9?  Did you go there that day?  Did

  13   you go there on August 9?

  14   A.  On the 9th, I think I also went, yes.

  15   Q.  Did you touch anything or anybody on August 9 when you

  16   were there?

  17   A.  I cannot recall I touched anything.  I mean, I never

  18   touched anything or anybody.

  19   Q.  Were you there on August 10 at the bomb scene?

  20   A.  I don't remember.

  21   Q.  How about August 11 or 12?

  22   A.  Those are the days I remember I was there for about two,

  23   three days, but other days, no.

  24   Q.  In the times that you were at the bombing location, did

  25   you ever observe Rosemary Wanjiru at the bomb location?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Mutunga - cross

   1   A.  No, I never saw her.

   2   Q.  You were selected to go to the airport to bring into

   3   custody Mr. Odeh, correct?

   4   A.  Correct.

   5   Q.  You went there because he was arrested in connection with

   6   the bomb blast which occurred on the 7th of August; isn't that

   7   correct?

   8   A.  It's correct.

   9   Q.  Is this the first job that you did in connection with the

  10   investigation of the bomb blast?

  11   A.  That is correct, the first assignment.

  12   Q.  Before you got to the airport, did anybody say to you

  13   before you touch anything in this bag put on a pair of gloves?

  14   Did anybody tell you that?

  15   A.  Come again.

  16   Q.  OK.  Before you went out to the airport to pick up Mr.

  17   Odeh, did any of your supervisors say to you if you are going

  18   to touch anything belonging to him, put on a pair of gloves?

  19   Did anybody say that to you?

  20   A.  No.

  21   Q.  So when you went to the airport that day and the clothing

  22   in the bag was spread out on the seat, you were not equipped

  23   with any gloves or special items or special equipment to

  24   handled those clothing items; is that right?

  25   A.  I don't have gloves and those items to me were not special

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Mutunga - cross

   1   items.  I took them as personal belongings, not anything

   2   special.

   3   Q.  Now let me ask one question again.  When you touched those

   4   clothing items to check and make sure they were all there,

   5   were you wearing gloves?  Yes or no.

   6   A.  No.

   7   Q.  When you took these items back to your offices and placed

   8   them in a cabinet, were you wearing gloves when you were

   9   carrying that bag, the handle of that bag?

  10   A.  No.

  11   Q.  The next day, August 15, you said to us that the clothing

  12   items were spread out on a small table that was in

  13   Mr. Muchari's office, correct?

  14   A.  Correct.

  15   Q.  And the person who spread those items out on that table

  16   was you.

  17   A.  Correct.

  18   Q.  And I take it that when you put your hands in the bag to

  19   get those items to spread them out on the table, you wasn't

  20   wearing gloves; is that right?

  21   A.  Ask again that one.

  22   Q.  OK, I'm sorry.  At the time you took the items out of the

  23   bag and spread them on the small table in Mr. Muchari's

  24   office, you were not wearing gloves.

  25   A.  Correct.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Mutunga - cross

   1   Q.  And when Rosemary was handling those clothing items, she

   2   also was not wearing gloves.

   3   A.  Correct.

   4   Q.  When you were a police officer in Kenya, were you trained

   5   in how to handle evidence?

   6   A.  You mean how to handle exhibits?

   7   Q.  Yes.

   8   A.  To me particularly, these were not exhibits, so I handled

   9   them as personal belongings.  That was my belief.

  10   Q.  So it was a conscious decision that you made, right?

  11   A.  Correct.

  12   Q.  You could have been wearing gloves, you just chose not to

  13   wear gloves, right?

  14   A.  If there was a need for me to look for gloves, I would

  15   have acquired, because they are there.

  16   Q.  Did the guy who was in charge of the whole investigation,

  17   Mr. Muchari, say to you I think it might be a good idea if you

  18   put gloves on?

  19   A.  Mr. Muchari talk about gloves?

  20   Q.  Yes.  That's what I am asking.

  21   A.  No.

  22   Q.  And he is in charge of the whole investigation.

  23   A.  He was.

  24   Q.  The table that was in Mr. Muchari's office, do you know if

  25   that was the first time that any items connected with the

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Mutunga - cross

   1   bombing was placed on that table?

   2   A.  I don't know, because that was not my office.  I don't

   3   know if there were items before there.  There were items that

   4   I brought in.

   5   Q.  By August 15, your department's investigation had been

   6   going on for almost one week; isn't that right?

   7   A.  Yes.

   8   Q.  How far was your office from the bombing location?

   9   A.  It's about four kilometers apart.

  10   Q.  I want to ask you a couple questions about two of the

  11   items that's in evidence and I think I'm through.  The first

  12   is, the government has as GX546, and at the same time I would

  13   like to show the witness, your Honor, GX547 so he can look at

  14   them at the same time.

  15            Your Honor, if it's OK, I will like I would like to

  16   have those put on the split screen.

  17            THE COURT:  Sure.

  18   Q.  The document to our left, that's 546.  This is the

  19   document that is the receipt from the Pakistanis to you; isn't

  20   that correct?

  21   A.  Correct.

  22   Q.  And 547 is you turning over the possessions of Mr. Odeh to

  23   Mr. Muchari, correct?

  24   A.  Correct.

  25   Q.  Can we have the next page of this document changed,

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Mutunga - cross

   1   please.  Can we have for 547 the first page up.

   2            You told us that on the document 547, you said that

   3   you made a mistake about the green jacket and you wrote that

   4   in in hand.  That would be on the second page of 547.  Can we

   5   have that up, please.  I am sorry.  Do you see that item

   6   there, handwritten there, item P?  One green jacket.

   7   A.  Yes, I can see it.

   8   Q.  You told us earlier that you wrote that in because you

   9   realized that you had made a mistake, right?

  10   A.  Correct.

  11   Q.  And you wanted this document to accurately reflect what

  12   you were turning over to Mr. Muchari; isn't that right?

  13   A.  I don't get you there.

  14   Q.  Let me rephrase it.  You corrected the document because

  15   you wanted the document to be accurate, right?

  16   A.  Right.

  17   Q.  You wanted that document to include all of the items that

  18   you were turning over to Mr. Muchari, right?

  19   A.  Right.

  20   Q.  As a police officer, you know that keeping track of that

  21   evidence is very important; isn't that right?

  22   A.  As I said again, I never treated all these as exhibits.

  23   All along I treated them as personal belongings.

  24   Q.  As a police officer, you know that keeping a suspect's

  25   personal belongings and items accurately is important, right?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Mutunga - cross

   1   A.  Is important, and this is why I included that green

   2   jacket.

   3   Q.  When we look at 546, page 1, we see -- you can leave it

   4   split, and can you give us 546, page 3, to the right.

   5            The document before the court right now is 546, and

   6   this would be the document that would accurately reflect what

   7   the Pakistanis gave you, right?

   8   A.  Can you ask again?

   9   Q.  I am sorry.  The document that we are looking at right

  10   now, Government's Exhibit 546 that is in evidence, this is the

  11   transfer agreement that you signed that you got from the

  12   Pakistanis, right?

  13   A.  Correct.

  14   Q.  Now let's look at the items that you say you got from the

  15   Pakistanis.  You have item 5, one hand-carry bag containing

  16   the following items, and then you have A, three shirts, three.

  17   Do you see that?

  18   A.  Correct.

  19   Q.  You skip B, and you have C, trousers, right?

  20   A.  Correct.

  21   Q.  As you go through your list from A to P, there is no green

  22   jacket there, right?

  23   A.  Correct.

  24   Q.  When you were going over your paperwork to make sure that

  25   you had the information accurately recorded, did you notice

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Mutunga - cross

   1   here on this document that the green jacket wasn't listed?

   2   A.  Yes, correct.

   3   Q.  You did notice that?

   4   A.  I noticed the green jacket is not there.

   5   Q.  Is this the first time that you are noticing that it is

   6   missing from this list?

   7   A.  Yes, when I saw it -- I mean, it's the first time.  But I

   8   saw the green jacket as well.

   9   Q.  Let me ask the question this way.  You signed a document

  10   saying that you received a certain amount of items, right?

  11   A.  Correct.

  12   Q.  You later found out that you had in fact received a green

  13   jacket but it wasn't listed; isn't that right?

  14   A.  Correct.

  15   Q.  You made a mistake; isn't that right?

  16   A.  You ask if I made a mistake?

  17   Q.  You made a mistake.  Is this a simple mistake?  That's all

  18   I am asking you.

  19   A.  To me it was not a mistake.  What I found there -- I found

  20   the green jacket along with the other items as you are

  21   counting them, so I said it was probably mean to be included,

  22   because I thought, I assumed it to belong to the suspect.

  23   Q.  My question is, this form that we have in front of us that

  24   is in evidence is 546, and this form was signed by you; isn't

  25   that right?  You signed the form.  That's your name, Gabriel

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Mutunga - cross

   1   Mutunga down there at the bottom of the second page, right?

   2   A.  I did.

   3   Q.  When you signed this form, you had in fact received items

   4   that wasn't listed on the chart, right?

   5   A.  Simply what I did, when I was taking over the items as

   6   listed down, I never looked at the suspect nor what clothes he

   7   wore.  So when I saw the jacket, I assumed it is one of his

   8   clothes, because I never counted the clothes he had worn as I

   9   was taking over the suspect.  I assumed it was his.

  10   Q.  Let me see if I can walk you through it.  You took the

  11   clothes and you put them back in the bag one at a time, right?

  12   A.  Yes, I did.

  13   Q.  You got to a jacket, it was green.  Did you put the green

  14   jacket in the bag?

  15   A.  You mean at the airport?

  16   Q.  In the airplane, did you put the green jacket in the bag?

  17   A.  No, like I said, I never did that.

  18   Q.  You never put the green jacket in the bag?

  19   A.  Yes.

  20   Q.  When you brought Mr. Odeh out of the plane, right, he went

  21   one way into the custody of other people, right, and the bag

  22   went another way with you; isn't that right?

  23   A.  Correct.

  24   Q.  Where was the green jacket?  With Mr. Odeh or with you?

  25   A.  Should have been with Mr. Odeh.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Mutunga - cross

   1   Q.  Should have been?

   2   A.  With Mr. Odeh.

   3   Q.  Do you know where the green jacket was?

   4   A.  I do not know.

   5   Q.  You don't know, do you?

   6   A.  Yes.

   7   Q.  You know that on the second day a green jacket was there,

   8   right?

   9   A.  Yes, I saw it.

  10   Q.  In the bag.

  11   A.  Not in the bag, not inside the bag.

  12   Q.  Where did you see the green jacket at?  On the table?

  13   A.  As I spread down the items and I listed them as I did in

  14   my list, it was later I realized I saw a green jacket.  I saw

  15   a green jacket.

  16   Q.  So my question is, before you saw that green jacket on the

  17   table, having been taken out of the bag, had you ever seen

  18   that green jacket before?  Yes or no.

  19   A.  I said no.

  20   Q.  The answer is no.  Because you went over this chart before

  21   you put your name on the bottom of it, isn't that right?  I am

  22   sorry, let me rephrase that question.

  23            Government's Exhibit 546, the one that is in front of

  24   the jury with your name on the bottom, before you signed that

  25   document and put your name on the bottom you checked to see

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Mutunga - cross

   1   these items against what you had; isn't that right?

   2   A.  Yes, I did.

   3   Q.  And the next day -- can you put 547, second page, up.

   4            When you signed the document the next day, which was

   5   the 15th -- that would be 547 -- you also wanted that document

   6   to reflect what you saw and that's why you included the green

   7   jacket; isn't that correct?

   8   A.  Yes, I saw it on the table.

   9   Q.  And you signed this only after it accurately reflected

  10   what you saw, which included the green jacket, right?

  11   A.  Yes.

  12   Q.  That's just straight good police work, right?

  13   A.  Right.

  14   Q.  After the items were turned over to Mr. Muchari, did you

  15   ever see that bag again?

  16   A.  No.

  17   Q.  Did you have any further dealings with the investigation

  18   surrounding the bombing?

  19   A.  Ask again.

  20   Q.  I will rephrase the question.  Did you do any further work

  21   in connection with the bombing investigation?

  22   A.  Never.

  23   Q.  Just two more questions.

  24            There was some money that Mr. Odeh had when he was

  25   brought into your custody, right?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Mutunga - cross

   1   A.  Correct.

   2   Q.  That was what, about 500 and some odd dollars, $546 United

   3   States currency, right?

   4   A.  Correct.

   5   Q.  And I think it was 1462 shillings?

   6   A.  It was 1460 shillings.

   7   Q.  OK, I was two shillings off.  You counted that money to

   8   make sure it was right.  You counted that money to make sure

   9   it was right, didn't you?

  10   A.  Yes, I did, as I was handing over to Mr. Muchari.

  11            MR. RICCO:  I have no further questions.  Thank you

  12   very much.

  13            THE COURT:  Redirect?

  14            MR. FITZGERALD:  Briefly.



  17   Q.  I believe you just testified that the dollars that you

  18   received were 546.  If you could check the receipt you signed

  19   and tell us how many dollars Mr. Odeh had.  Do you have the

  20   receipt in front of you?  Government's Exhibit 546.  Can you

  21   tell us how many dollars, US dollars there were.

  22   A.  Yes.  I saw them.

  23   Q.  How many US dollars were there?

  24   A.  There were $535 US.

  25            MR. FITZGERALD:  Thank you.  Nothing further.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Wanjiru - direct

   1            THE COURT:  Thank you, sir.  You may step down.

   2            (Witness excused)

   3            MR. FITZGERALD:  The government now calls Rosemary

   4   Wanjiru.


   6        called as a witness by the government,

   7        having been duly sworn, testified as follows:



  10   Q.  Ms. Wanjiru, if you could sit up as close to the

  11   microphone as you can and if you could point your voice to the

  12   microphone and keep your voice up, everybody will be able to

  13   hear you.  If you need to use the translator, please do so.

  14            Can you tell the jury what you do for a living.

  15   A.  I am a police officer.

  16   Q.  For how long have you been a police officer?

  17   A.  For the last 29 years.

  18   Q.  Let me direct your attention to August 15, 1998.  Were you

  19   working that day as a police officer?

  20   A.  Yes, sir.

  21   Q.  Did there come a time when you saw some items of baggage,

  22   or luggage that day?

  23   A.  It was morning section between meetings.

  24   Q.  Can you tell the jury where you saw the items on that

  25   morning or midday.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Wanjiru - direct

   1   A.  It was in Edward Muchari's office.

   2   Q.  Who is Edward Muchari?  Do you work for him?

   3   A.  Yes, I work for him.

   4   Q.  What happened that day in Mr. Muchari's office?

   5   A.  I was brought from my office.  I went to Edward Muchari's

   6   office.  In there was Mr. Gabriel Mutunga and Edward Muchari,

   7   and I entered the office.

   8   Q.  What happened when you went inside the office?

   9   A.  They were doing the handing over.  Gabriel Mutunga was

  10   handing over the bag to Edward Muchari, and I was observing

  11   what they were doing.

  12   Q.  What did they do?  How did the handing over take place?

  13   A.  Gabriel Mutunga removed the contents from the bag, and

  14   then he had a sheet handing over which had the list of the

  15   items which are in the bag.  And then we counted each item,

  16   ticking what we were seeing on the paper.

  17   Q.  What if anything did you do as part of that process?

  18   A.  Can you repeat it.

  19   Q.  What did you do?  Did you touch any of the items?

  20   A.  Yes, I did.

  21   Q.  When did you touch them?

  22   A.  After Edward Mutunga gave out the things, then I had to

  23   return them in the bag, making sure all the items on the list

  24   were there.

  25   Q.  What did you do after you put all the items in the bag?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Wanjiru - direct

   1   A.  They also prepared a list which Edward signed and

   2   Gabriel -- they both signed, a ticking off of the note.

   3   Q.  Which people in the room touched the items of clothing?

   4   A.  I did, with the Captain Mutunga.

   5   Q.  Were either you or Mr. Mutunga wearing gloves at the time

   6   you touched the items?

   7   A.  No, I can't remember wearing gloves.

   8   Q.  What did you do with the items once the process of taking

   9   them out of the bag and putting them back in was finished?

  10   A.  I was instructed by Edward to keep them in safe custody.

  11   Q.  What did you do with them?

  12   A.  I kept them.

  13   Q.  Where did you keep them?

  14   A.  In our storeroom.

  15   Q.  Where is your storeroom?

  16   A.  It's in the basement.

  17   Q.  What else was in the storeroom at that time?

  18   A.  There was nothing.

  19   Q.  What was the storeroom used for?  What was its purpose?

  20   A.  It wasn't being used because it's a new building and we

  21   had not started in using it.  So it was vacant.  There was

  22   nothing.

  23   Q.  Was there a place in the building where the FBI kept

  24   exhibits?

  25   A.  No.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Wanjiru - direct

   1   Q.  Did the FBI ever keep exhibits at the CID building?

   2   A.  Yes, but it was in second floor where they kept their

   3   exhibits.

   4   Q.  So the room in the basement was different than the room on

   5   the second floor of the FBI?

   6   A.  It's quite far.

   7   Q.  Do you recall, did there come a time when you removed the

   8   bag from the storeroom?

   9   A.  Yes, I do.

  10   Q.  When was that?

  11   A.  On 20th.

  12   Q.  What did you do with the bag on August 20?

  13   A.  I was asked by Edward Muchari to bring the bag to his

  14   office.

  15   Q.  Did you bring the bag to Mr. Muchari's office?

  16   A.  Yes, I did.

  17   Q.  What did you do with the bag once you got there?

  18   A.  We again removed the contents and now we were in the

  19   process of handing over to an FBI officer who was now in

  20   Edward Muchari's office.

  21   Q.  Do you remember the name of the FBI officer who Edward

  22   Muchari's office?

  23   A.  Yes, I remember it was somebody Sciarini.

  24   Q.  How would you spell that last name?

  25   A.  S-C-A-R-I-N-I.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Wanjiru - direct

   1   Q.  Can you tell the jury the process of how you went about

   2   handing over the items in the bag on the 20th of August.  What

   3   did you do?

   4   A.  We removed the contents again, and now we handed over to

   5   the FBI when he was saying what was in the contents in the

   6   bag.

   7   Q.  Was there another document prepared at that time?

   8   A.  Yes.

   9   Q.  Did you handle the items on that day?

  10   A.  After they were handed over, I didn't handle them again.

  11   Q.  But in the process of handing them over, did you touch the

  12   items yourselves?

  13   A.  Now the FBI officer was counter-checking what we handed

  14   over to him.

  15   Q.  Do you remember if you touched the items this day, on

  16   August 20?

  17   A.  I beg your pardon.

  18   Q.  Do you remember if you yourself touched the items on the

  19   20th of August, as a process of turning them over?

  20   A.  I am not sure but many times in the process of counting.

  21   Q.  Do you recall if you were wearing gloves that day?

  22   A.  I can't remember wearing gloves.

  23   Q.  Let me approach you with what has been marked as

  24   Government's Exhibit 547 in evidence and 578 for

  25   identification.  Looking first at Government's Exhibit 547, do

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Wanjiru - direct

   1   you see the exhibit with that number?

   2   A.  Yes.

   3   Q.  Do you recognize what that document is?

   4   A.  Yes.

   5   Q.  What is that?

   6   A.  Handing over, taking over certificate.

   7   Q.  Who handed over the items to whom on that certificate?

   8   A.  Gabriel Mutunga was handing over to Edward Muchari.

   9   Q.  Looking at the other document, Exhibit 548 for

  10   identification, do you recognize what that is?

  11   A.  Yes, I do.

  12   Q.  What is that?

  13   A.  Handing over, taking over certificate between Edward

  14   Muchari and Sciarini.

  15   Q.  S-C-I-A-R-I-N-I?

  16   A.  Yes.

  17   Q.  Were you present when that happened?

  18   A.  Yes.

  19   Q.  Were you present as reflected when that took place?

  20   A.  Yes.

  21   Q.  Was that document filled out when you were present?  Were

  22   you present when that was signed, that document?

  23   A.  Yes, I was.

  24            MR. FITZGERALD:  Your Honor, I would offer

  25   Government's Exhibit 548.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Wanjiru - direct

   1            THE COURT:  548 is received.

   2            (Government's Exhibit 548 received in evidence)

   3   Q.  Looking on Government's Exhibit 547, if you look at item

   4   E, it refers to a bed sheet, Government's Exhibit 547.

   5   A.  Item?

   6   Q.  Item E, E as in Edward.

   7   A.  Yes.

   8   Q.  Do you recall what that item was, the bed sheet?

   9   A.  It was a sheet, but not a bed sheet but something which

  10   had been joined together.

  11   Q.  Let me approach you with an item which has been marked for

  12   identification as Government's Exhibit 535B.  I ask you if you

  13   recognize this.

  14   A.  It is the one.

  15   Q.  Do you believe it is actually a bed sheet?

  16   A.  It's not a bed sheet, it's a sheet.  But we didn't have

  17   the name for it, so we just gave it that name.

  18   Q.  Between the time on August 15 when you put the items in a

  19   storeroom and August 20 when you took them out, do you recall

  20   if you added any other exhibits to that storeroom?

  21   A.  No, none.

  22            MR. FITZGERALD:  Thank you.  I have nothing further,

  23   Judge.

  24            THE COURT:  Mr. Ricco.

  25            MR. RICCO:  Thank you.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Wanjiru - cross

   1            Can we have Government's Exhibit 548 on the screen,

   2   please.


   4   BY MR. RICCO:

   5   Q.  Good afternoon, Detective.

   6   A.  Afternoon.

   7   Q.  The first thing I wanted to ask you is about the signature

   8   that appears on the bottom of this document.  Whose signature

   9   is on the line nearest to the bottom?

  10   A.  The second signature?

  11   Q.  Yes.

  12   A.  It is for Edward Muchari.

  13   Q.  And you recognize his signature?

  14   A.  Yes, I do.

  15   Q.  He was present when this transfer of items took place?

  16   A.  Yes, he was.

  17   Q.  He signed the document, right?

  18   A.  Yes, he did.

  19   Q.  Did he physically examine the items that were in the bag?

  20   A.  Yes.

  21   Q.  When I say physically examine the items, I mean did he

  22   take the items out the bag and hold them and look at them?

  23   A.  He didn't touch.

  24   Q.  He did not touch the items?

  25   A.  No.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Wanjiru - cross

   1   Q.  And the person that was asked to touch the items was you,

   2   correct?

   3   A.  Yes, when I was returning them in the bag.

   4   Q.  But you didn't sign this document.

   5   A.  I did not.

   6   Q.  Muchari signed this document, right?

   7   A.  I did not.

   8   Q.  When you were going through the items in the bag, were you

   9   wearing gloves?

  10   A.  I don't remember having worn gloves.

  11   Q.  Do you remember Mr. Muchari saying to you, Detective

  12   Wanjiru rue, I think you should put some gloves on while you

  13   are touching the stuff in the bag?  Did he say that to you?

  14   A.  He didn't tell me to have gloves.

  15   Q.  And the FBI agent, the American FBI agent who was

  16   receiving these items, Agent Sciarini, was Agent Sciarini

  17   wearing gloves?

  18   A.  I can't remember.

  19   Q.  You had received the bag on August 15.

  20   A.  Yes.

  21   Q.  And I think you told us that you took the bag down to the

  22   basement and it was the only thing down there, was that bag.

  23   A.  Yes.  We have cabinets in the storeroom, nothing else.

  24   Q.  Was there things in the cabinets there?

  25   A.  I beg your pardon.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Wanjiru - cross

   1   Q.  Cabinets that were in the basement, were they filled with

   2   items or empty?

   3   A.  No, they are new cabinets which have not even been

   4   unpacked.  They are packed.

   5   Q.  So the only item in that basement was that bag.

   6   A.  Yes.

   7   Q.  That's this bag right here.  Right?

   8   A.  Yes.

   9   Q.  And you were participating in the Kenyan investigation to

  10   the bombing that took place on August 7, 19998, right?

  11   A.  Yes.

  12   Q.  The Kenyans were conducting their own investigation, isn't

  13   that right?

  14   A.  No, the investigation was combined.  We are not doing a

  15   separate investigation.

  16   Q.  You weren't working for the FBI, were you?

  17   A.  We are jointly working together.

  18   Q.  Did somebody from the FBI tell you to put that bag in the

  19   basement or did somebody from the Kenyan authorities tell you

  20   to put the bag in the basement?

  21   A.  Kenyan authorities.

  22   Q.  And when you received that bag, did you receive it from an

  23   FBI agent or did you receive it from a Kenyan investigator?

  24   A.  I received with from a Kenyan investigator.

  25   Q.  Tell me.  During the course of the eight days from the 7th

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Wanjiru - cross

   1   to the 15th, where did the Kenyans put the evidence that they

   2   gathered in connection with this investigation?

   3   A.  The bag according to me was not exhibit, it was a part of

   4   what the accused had.  It was his belongings.

   5   Q.  I heard your answer, but that wasn't my question.  My

   6   question was, where did the Kenyans put evidence that it

   7   gathered in connection with the bombing of the embassy in

   8   Kenya?

   9   A.  I don't know, because we are many groups and everybody had

  10   his own part.

  11   Q.  Was any of the evidence that the Kenyans gathered in the

  12   course of the investigation of the bombing in Kenya kept in

  13   Kenyan police headquarters?

  14   A.  I don't know that.

  15   Q.  How long have you been a detective?  How long have you

  16   been doing police work?

  17   A.  For many years.

  18   Q.  How many?

  19   A.  Twenty eight, nine years.

  20   Q.  This bombing was one of the biggest criminal events to

  21   ever take place --

  22            MR. FITZGERALD:  Objection, your Honor.

  23            THE COURT:  Sustained.

  24   Q.  The bombing had the attention of the Kenyan police and the

  25   intelligence division; isn't that correct?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Wanjiru - cross

   1   A.  Um-hum.

   2   Q.  This was an important case, wasn't it?  Right?

   3   A.  Yes.

   4   Q.  When you came up on the 15th into Mr. Muchari's room,

   5   someone asked you to come to the room, right?

   6   A.  Yes.

   7   Q.  When you got to the room, were the items from the bag in

   8   the bag or were they on the table or somewhere else?  Let me

   9   rephrase the question.  I am sorry.

  10            When you got to the room for the first time,

  11   Mr. Muchari's room on August 15, when you walked into the room

  12   did you see clothes out or were the clothes in the bag?

  13   A.  The clothes was moving when I was watching.

  14   Q.  Mr. Mutunga, I take it, was taking the clothes out of the

  15   bag, right, and he was putting them on a table?

  16   A.  Um-hum.

  17   Q.  Do you know whether any items that were gathered in

  18   connection with the bombing of this case, embassy, were ever

  19   put on that table before August 15?  Do you know?

  20   A.  No, I don't.

  21   Q.  Do you know whether or not people who were working on the

  22   investigation met in Mr. Muchari's office before August 15,

  23   1998?

  24   A.  I don't know that.

  25   Q.  I would like to bring your attention to the document that

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                               Wanjiru - cross

   1   is on the screen.  I notice that here, item B says trouser,

   2   and it says one, right?

   3   A.  Yes.

   4   Q.  Are you sure there wasn't two pair of trousers in that

   5   bag?

   6   A.  According to me, I saw one.

   7   Q.  You only saw one.  Are you sure about that?

   8   A.  I saw one.

   9   Q.  What did the pair of trousers look like that you saw?

  10   A.  I can't remember it's that trouser.

  11   Q.  Were they a black pair of jeans?

  12   A.  Yes, it was black.

  13            (Continued on next page)













                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                            Wanjiru - cross/Ricco

   1   Q.  Okay.  All right.  And you have a recollection of only

   2   seeing one pair of black trousers in that bag, right?

   3   A.  Yes.

   4   Q.  When you were in Mr. Muchori's office -- can we have 547

   5   placed on the screen, please.

   6            You were present when Mr. Mutunga was taking items

   7   out of the bag?

   8   A.  Yes, I was.

   9   Q.  Right?

  10   A.  Yes.

  11   Q.  There was one pair of trousers, right?

  12   A.  I saw one.

  13   Q.  Okay.  And that pair of trousers was a pair of black

  14   jeans, right?

  15            Take your time.

  16   A.  I'm not very sure of the color, but I saw a trouser.

  17   Q.  All right.  Could it be that the trousers that you saw on

  18   the 15th in Mr. Muchori's office was a different color from

  19   the trousers that you saw on the 20th when you were turning

  20   over the items to the FBI?

  21   A.  No, because I'm the one who kept the bag.

  22   Q.  They were the same trousers, right?

  23   A.  Uh-huh, yes.

  24   Q.  And you're telling us now you're not sure about the color

  25   of the trousers?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                            Wanjiru - cross/Ricco

   1   A.  After I kept the bag, I didn't go back to check until the

   2   20th, when they were handed over.  So I didn't have time to

   3   stay with the trouser or with the items.

   4   Q.  Is that your way of saying you don't remember what the

   5   color of the trousers were?

   6   A.  I'm saying I'm not sure.

   7   Q.  That's okay.  That's all right.  But you are sure that

   8   there was only one pair of trousers?

   9   A.  Yes.

  10   Q.  All right.  When you left Mr. Muchori's office,

  11   Mr. Muchori told you to put this bag in a safe place?

  12   A.  Yes.

  13   Q.  And you followed his orders?

  14   A.  Yes, I did.

  15   Q.  And you locked the bag downstairs in the basement?

  16   A.  Yes.

  17   Q.  And who had the keys to the basement?

  18   A.  I do.

  19   Q.  Anybody else?

  20   A.  No.

  21   Q.  No.  Okay.

  22            So if you closed that bag on the 15th and it had one

  23   pair of trousers in it, if there's two pair on the 20th,

  24   somebody got in there, isn't that right?  Right?

  25   A.  I still maintain I saw one.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                            Wanjiru - cross/Ricco

   1   Q.  That's okay.  Now my question has to do with you locking

   2   the room and you having the only key, okay?  You're focusing

   3   on that?

   4   A.  Uh-huh.

   5   Q.  You locked that basement on the 15th, right?

   6   A.  Yes.

   7   Q.  And you never went back down to open that room between the

   8   15th and the 20th, right?

   9   A.  No, I didn't go back.

  10   Q.  For no reason?

  11   A.  Nobody went there, because I have the key.

  12   Q.  And no one came to you and said, I want to go downstairs

  13   and open the basement, give me the key?

  14   A.  No.

  15   Q.  Now, are you aware if anybody else has the key?

  16            How do you know you're the only person with the key?

  17   A.  Nobody has.

  18   Q.  How do you know that?

  19   A.  Because I'm the one who has maintained that key for since

  20   then, even up to now.

  21   Q.  Okay.  So on the 20th if there are two pairs of pants in

  22   that bag, somebody other than you must have opened it to put

  23   them there, right?

  24   A.  Maybe it was an oversight.

  25   Q.  What was an oversight?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                            Wanjiru - cross/Ricco

   1   A.  When we were counting.

   2   Q.  On the 20th when you turned the property over to the

   3   FBI -- can you put 548 on the screen, please -- you have

   4   trousers, one.  What's the oversight you're talking about?

   5   A.  I beg your pardon?

   6   Q.  On the 20th of August, this form was signed in front of

   7   you saying there's one pair of trousers in that bag, right?

   8   A.  Yes.

   9   Q.  That's not an oversight, is it?  Is that a mistake?

  10   A.  It is one.

  11   Q.  Yes.  Yes or no?

  12   A.  It was one.

  13   Q.  Okay.  And on the 15th -- can we have 547 placed back,

  14   please -- and on the 15th when you saw one, it was just one,

  15   isn't that right?

  16   A.  Yes.

  17   Q.  No oversight on either one of those days on your part,

  18   isn't that right?

  19            Right?  You got to say yes or no.  You don't have to

  20   say yes or no.

  21   A.  Repeat the question again.

  22   Q.  All right.  On the 15th where you have one trouser, that's

  23   what you saw on the 15th, right?

  24   A.  Yes.

  25            MR. RICCO:  I have just a couple more questions, your

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                            Wanjiru - cross/Ricco

   1   Honor.

   2   Q.  On the 15th when you were up in Mr. Muchori's office, for

   3   the first time when you saw these items on the bag, that took

   4   place early in the morning.  It was around 8:30, maybe 9:00 in

   5   the morning, perhaps?

   6   A.  I don't know exact time, but it was before midday.

   7   Q.  Okay.  Sometime during the morning hours?

   8   A.  Uh-huh.

   9   Q.  And when you were inside Mr. Muchori's office as these

  10   items were being taken out of the bag, just answer me yes or

  11   no:  Were there any American officials present?

  12            The first time.

  13   A.  I can't remember who else was there.  I can't remember.

  14   Q.  Well, let's think back to that day.  Let's think back to

  15   August 15th.  You walk into the room.  You note Mr. Muchori,

  16   right?  You see him.  You know Mr. Mutunga.  You see him?

  17   A.  Uh-huh.

  18   Q.  He has a bag there.  You don't know anything about the

  19   bag, right?  That's new.

  20            You have to say yes or no for the reporter.  You

  21   can't shake your head.  You have to say yes or no.

  22   A.  Yes.

  23   Q.  You don't have to say yes or no.

  24   A.  Yes.

  25   Q.  All right.  And while you're present in that room at that

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                            Wanjiru - cross/Ricco

   1   time, is there some American, like maybe an American

   2   Caucasian, present in that room?

   3   A.  On 15th?

   4   Q.  On the 15th, that morning.

   5   A.  I don't remember having seen them.

   6   Q.  Okay.  And when Mr. Muchori told you to close that bag up

   7   and take it downstairs, and you turned and you walked out that

   8   room with the bag, did you see any white Americans in that

   9   office?

  10   A.  No.

  11   Q.  And after you took that bag downstairs, the next time you

  12   took that bag out of that room was on August 20th when

  13   Mr. Muchori told you to go get it, isn't that right?

  14   A.  Yes.

  15   Q.  And when you walked into the room on the 20th, there was a

  16   white American FBI agent there in the room, isn't that right?

  17   A.  Yes.

  18   Q.  Did you keep custody of the money or did someone else take

  19   care of that?

  20   A.  After taking over, we just put everything in the bag.

  21   Q.  Okay.  And can you tell me how many blocks the Kenyan CID

  22   headquarters is from the embassy that was bombed.

  23   A.  From?

  24   Q.  How far is the CID headquarters from the Kenyan embassy

  25   that was bombed?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                             Wanjiru - redirect

   1   A.  Say about 200 kilometers or more.

   2   Q.  Okay.  Thank you.

   3            MR. RICCO:  I have no further questions.  Thank you,

   4   your Honor.

   5            THE COURT:  Redirect.



   8   Q.  If we could go over that last question.  How far is it,

   9   how far did you say it was from the CID headquarters to the

  10   embassy?

  11   A.  It's more than, more than 200 kilometers.

  12   Q.  How long --

  13   A.  I'm not sure, but I'm just estimating.

  14   Q.  Let me ask you a different way.  How long would it take

  15   you to drive from CID headquarters to the area where the

  16   American Embassy was?

  17   A.  If there is no jam, then it would take 20 minutes.

  18   Q.  And how long would it take you to walk?

  19   A.  About 30 minutes, 30 to 40 minutes.

  20   Q.  Can you give the distance in miles, by any chance?

  21   A.  I'm not very good in giving the distance.

  22   Q.  Okay.  You mentioned, we talked about the basement, and

  23   you indicated that you put the items in the storeroom.  How

  24   many rooms were in the basement?

  25   A.  Four rooms.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Wanjuri - recross

   1   Q.  The room you put this in, you said there was nothing else

   2   in there.  Do you know if there were items in the other rooms

   3   in the basement, if you know?

   4   A.  Whether there were?  I beg your pardon?

   5   Q.  Do you know what was in the other rooms in the basement?

   6            (Witness conferred with interpreter)

   7            MR. FITZGERALD:  I'll withdraw it.

   8   Q.  At the time of the bombing investigation, at the scene of

   9   the bombing at the American Embassy, were the pieces of metal

  10   and other items and objects collected at the bomb scene, were

  11   they being brought into the police headquarters building?

  12   A.  No, they were not brought at CID headquarters.

  13            MR. FITZGERALD:  Can I have one moment, your Honor?

  14            (Pause)

  15            MR. FITZGERALD:  Nothing further.

  16            MR. RICCO:  Just on that point, your Honor.

  17            THE COURT:  Yes.


  19   BY MR. RICCO:

  20   Q.  Detective, did you go to the scene of the bombing?

  21   A.  Yes, I did on the first day.

  22   Q.  Did you go back the second day?

  23   A.  No.

  24   Q.  Did you ever go back there between August 8th and August

  25   15th?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Sciarini - direct

   1   A.  I never went again.  I just went to the scene the first

   2   day.  I didn't go back after that.

   3   Q.  But you certainly worked with people who did go back

   4   there, didn't you?

   5   A.  Ask again.

   6   Q.  I'll ask it again.  You worked with police officers that

   7   went to the bombing scene; isn't that correct?

   8   A.  Yes.

   9   Q.  And those police officers were walking in and out of CID

  10   headquarters from the day of the bombing up until the 15th,

  11   weren't they?

  12   A.  Yes, they were.

  13            MR. RICCO:  Thank you.  No further questions.

  14            THE COURT:  Thank --

  15            MR. RICCO:  I'm sorry, Judge.

  16            THE COURT:  Go ahead.

  17            MR. RICCO:  That's fine.  Thank you, your Honor.

  18            THE COURT:  Thank you, ma'am.  You may step down.

  19            (Witness excused)

  20            MR. FITZGERALD:  The government calls Charles

  21   Sciarini, S-C-I-A-R-I-N-I.


  23        called as a witness by the government,

  24        having been duly sworn, testified as follows:

  25            DEPUTY CLERK:  Please be seated.  Please state your

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Sciarini - direct

   1   full name.

   2            THE WITNESS:  Charles K. Sciarini.

   3            DEPUTY CLERK:  Spell your last name.

   4            THE WITNESS:  S-C-I-A-R-I-N-I.

   5            DEPUTY CLERK:  Thank you.



   8   Q.  Good afternoon, sir.

   9            Are you currently retired?

  10   A.  Yes.

  11   Q.  Prior to retiring, what was your occupation?

  12   A.  I was a special agent with the FBI assigned to the

  13   Washington field office.

  14   Q.  Let me direct your attention to August 20th of 1998.  Were

  15   you working for the FBI at that time?

  16   A.  Yes.

  17   Q.  And where were you deployed?

  18   A.  I was deployed to Nairobi, Kenya, to investigate the

  19   bombing of the embassy.

  20   Q.  Did there come a time when you went to CID, Kenyan police

  21   headquarters that day?

  22   A.  Yes.

  23   Q.  And can you tell us where you went when you got to the

  24   police headquarters and what you did?

  25   A.  We staged in an area at CID where we had a room with the

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Sciarini - direct

   1   agents and investigators, and at that time I was instructed to

   2   take custody of evidence.

   3   Q.  What was the evidence that you took custody of?

   4   A.  I took custody of a bag, gym bag, which contained various

   5   items in it.

   6   Q.  Can you tell us how you went about the process of taking

   7   custody of this gym bag?

   8   A.  That gym bag was given to me by a Kenyan CID officer in a

   9   room which was just off our staging area, which was more like

  10   a waiting room.  It had chairs, coffee table, TV set, and I

  11   reviewed the evidence at that point.

  12   Q.  How did you go about reviewing the evidence?

  13   A.  I compared what was in the bag to an inventory sheet which

  14   was provided to me by the Kenyan officer.

  15   Q.  How did you check the inventory sheet against the bag,

  16   what did you do?

  17   A.  I, wearing plastic gloves, removed the evidence from the

  18   bag, piece-by-piece, and just to ensure that everything was

  19   there.

  20            There was some currency that was there.  I counted

  21   the currency to make sure that it was accurate as according to

  22   the inventory sheet.

  23   Q.  What did you do after you checked the inventory sheet?

  24   A.  The evidence was then placed back in the bag and then I

  25   brought the evidence to another room where two agents were

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Sciarini - direct

   1   from the evidence response team.

   2   Q.  Let me stop you there a moment and approach you with

   3   Government Exhibit 548.

   4            I ask you to look at Government Exhibit 548, already

   5   in evidence, and ask you if you recognize this document.

   6   A.  Yes, I do.

   7   Q.  What is it?

   8   A.  This is the inventory sheet I have previously referred to.

   9   It has my signature on the bottom.

  10   Q.  If you just indicate which of the two signatures is yours?

  11   A.  Mine is at "signature of officer taking over."

  12   Q.  You mentioned that you brought the bag to a room with two

  13   people from the evidence response team.

  14   A.  Yes.

  15   Q.  How were they dressed in that room?

  16   A.  They were dressed in what I described as a white plastic

  17   outfit with laytex gloves on.

  18   Q.  What did you see happen in that room with these two people

  19   from the evidence response team?

  20   A.  They removed the evidence from the bag and examined it and

  21   they took some articles from there and segregated them from

  22   the evidence bag.

  23   Q.  What happened?  Did they have any particular equipment

  24   that you noticed during the process?

  25   A.  They have a small vacuum cleaner or some kind of a vacuum

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Sciarini - cross

   1   device and they used that on some of the evidence.

   2   Q.  What happened when they finished doing the processing in

   3   that room?

   4   A.  I took custody of items that were in the bag that were

   5   left over and I brought it over to another agent in our

   6   staging area who is a supervisor at headquarters, Cheryl

   7   Fletcher, and signed the evidence over to her.

   8   Q.  And did that end your involvement with that particular

   9   items of evidence?

  10   A.  Yes, sir.

  11            MR. FITZGERALD:  Thank you.  I have nothing further.


  13   BY MR. HERMAN:

  14   Q.  Good afternoon, Agent Sciarini.  Good afternoon.

  15   A.  Mister.

  16   Q.  You're retired.

  17   A.  Yes, sir.

  18   Q.  Congratulations.

  19            When you received these items on the 20th, had you

  20   ever had any contact with them before?

  21   A.  No, sir.

  22   Q.  At that time you were officially receiving them into

  23   United States custody; is that correct?

  24   A.  Yes, sir.

  25   Q.  This took place again where?  What location was this?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Sciarini - cross

   1   A.  At CID headquarters in Nairobi.

   2   Q.  Just to orient us, how far is CID headquarters from the

   3   location of the American Embassy?

   4   A.  I believe it was a 15-minute ride.  That's about all I

   5   would, I could equate it to.

   6   Q.  They're both in downtown Nairobi; is that right?

   7   A.  That's correct.

   8   Q.  Maybe a few miles away, three or four miles away?

   9   A.  I'm not certain about the mileage.  I just kind of equate

  10   the distance of how long it took us to get there.

  11   Q.  So you visited the bomb site; is that correct?

  12   A.  I did on the second day I was there.

  13   Q.  And what day would that have been, what day of the month?

  14   A.  You know, I'm not certain.  I think I arrived -- I think I

  15   arrived, my recollection was the 6th, which was late, and then

  16   I think we went to the site on the 7th.  I'm not certain.

  17   Q.  To orient you, the bombing was on August 7th, 1998.

  18   A.  Okay, then I know I went to the site the day after I

  19   arrived and I did not arrive immediately after the bombing.

  20   It was the weekend.

  21   Q.  But your purpose in going to Kenya was to assist in the

  22   investigation of the bombing; is that correct?

  23   A.  That's correct.

  24   Q.  And the bombing was on a Friday and you got there sometime

  25   over the weekend?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Sciarini - cross

   1   A.  I believe so.

   2   Q.  And between that day -- let's say you got there on

   3   maybe -- was it on a Sunday, let's say?

   4   A.  I'm sorry, I just don't recall exactly.  It's been a

   5   while.

   6   Q.  I understand.  And you're no longer with the agency?

   7   A.  That's correct.  Well, I'm a contractor with the agency.

   8   Q.  Thank you.  So you went to the bomb site at some point

   9   after you arrived in Kenya; is that right?

  10   A.  Yes.

  11   Q.  And on repeated days did you also go to the bomb site?

  12   A.  Maybe I was there once on the perimeter of the bomb site.

  13   Q.  On August 20th, 1998, your task on that day was to receive

  14   these items from the Kenyan police officials, is that correct?

  15   A.  Yes, sir.

  16   Q.  And the physical transfer of the items took place in an

  17   office or in a lounge area or where?

  18   A.  Yes, in a lounge area.

  19   Q.  When you first saw the items in question, where were they?

  20   A.  They were in this gym bag.

  21   Q.  Where was the gym bag?

  22   A.  It was given to me in that room.  It was brought to me in

  23   that room.

  24   Q.  Do you remember who brought it to you?

  25   A.  If I can refer to this exhibit, I would be able to give

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Sciarini - cross

   1   you the name.

   2   Q.  You can refer to whatever you like.  Just tell us what you

   3   are referring to.

   4   A.  The Exhibit 548.  Edward Muchori.

   5   Q.  So at the time you received these items, Edward Muchori

   6   was in the room; is that right?

   7   A.  Yes, sir.

   8   Q.  Was anyone else in the room?

   9   A.  Not that I recall, sir.

  10   Q.  The items were in a bag; is that correct?

  11   A.  Yes, in what I believe to be a gym bag, what I would call

  12   a gym bag.

  13   Q.  Okay.  When you received the items, they were handed to

  14   you by Edward Muchori, is that your recollection?

  15   A.  Yes, sir.

  16   Q.  At that point did you open the bag?

  17   A.  Yes, in that room.

  18   Q.  In that room.  And did you take items out of the bag?

  19   A.  Yes, I did.

  20   Q.  When you did so were you wearing gloves?

  21   A.  Yes, I was.

  22   Q.  And you were wearing gloves because these were items of

  23   evidence, is that fair to say?

  24   A.  Yes.

  25   Q.  You didn't want to contaminate yourself or the items; is

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Sciarini - cross

   1   that correct?

   2   A.  That's correct.

   3   Q.  Was Mr. Muchori wearing gloves that you remember?

   4   A.  I do not recall, sir.

   5            MR. HERMAN:  Excuse me.

   6            (Pause)

   7   BY MR. HERMAN:

   8   Q.  Mr. Sciarini, the items were taken out of the bag by you;

   9   is that right?

  10   A.  Yes.

  11   Q.  And then you inventoried the items?

  12   A.  Yes.

  13   Q.  And then were they then placed back in the bag by you?

  14   A.  Yes.

  15   Q.  And then you removed them to a different location; is that

  16   correct?

  17   A.  To a different room in the same building, yes.

  18   Q.  And it was at that point that they were then examined by

  19   another individual associated with the FBI; is that correct?

  20   A.  Yes, sir, two other individuals.

  21   Q.  Two other individuals.

  22            And you told us those individuals were dressed in

  23   typical outfits for examination of evidence; is that correct?

  24   A.  What I believe to be, yes.

  25   Q.  Tyvek suits or something to that effect?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                              Sciarini - cross

   1   A.  Yes, they looked like plastic suits.  I don't know the

   2   material.

   3   Q.  One last question, Mr. Sciarini.  In your presence in the

   4   room when you were with the Kenyan official, did that person

   5   or any other Kenyan official you're aware of take the clothes

   6   out of the bag without gloves on?

   7   A.  Not to my knowledge.  I believe once I took custody of it,

   8   I inventoried it, it was mine.

   9   Q.  Thank you, sir.

  10            MR. HERMAN:  That's all I have, your Honor.

  11            MR. FITZGERALD:  The government calls Mark --

  12            No further questions.  Sorry.

  13            THE COURT:  No further questions.  You may step down.

  14            (Witness excused)

  15            THE COURT:  We'll take our mid-afternoon recess.

  16            (Jury not present)

  17            THE COURT:  Before the jury returns, I would like to

  18   have an indication from counsel as to what it is safe to tell

  19   the jury about our schedule.

  20            MR. FITZGERALD:  Okay.

  21            (Recess)

  22            (Jury not present)

  23            THE COURT:  If we stop at 4, is that enough time to

  24   call another witness?

  25            MR. FITZGERALD:  Yes.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300

   1            THE COURT:  And the answer about the jury?

   2            MR. FITZGERALD:  I don't believe we have resolution

   3   on some of the stipulations, and I believe at least from one

   4   of them -- I think there's one.  Before the break if we know

   5   how many stipulations are okay and how many are not, we can

   6   tell you.  I know one of them involves a number of witnesses.

   7            THE COURT:  Is the issue whether it's Tuesday or

   8   Wednesday or whether Wednesday or Thursday?

   9            MR. FITZGERALD:  Tuesday or Wednesday.

  10            THE COURT:  So we're clearly not going to sit

  11   Thursday?

  12            MR. FITZGERALD:  Clearly not.

  13            THE COURT:  Can I tell them we're not going to sit

  14   Thursday and if we adjourn on Wednesday, we will not reconvene

  15   until the 16th?

  16            MR. FITZGERALD:  Yes.

  17            THE COURT:  I'm going to stop at 4, then.  If we're

  18   ready, we'll resume.

  19            (Jury present)

  20            THE COURT:  Before we hear from the next witness, let

  21   me tell you what our schedule is.

  22            We're not going to sit Thursday this week.  When we

  23   adjourn this week, we're going to adjourn until Monday, April

  24   16th.  That, I hope, will give everybody time for the holidays

  25   and will enable other matters to be attended to without

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                             Whitworth - direct

   1   wasting your time.  You must promise that you can remain

   2   healthy.

   3            All right, government may call its next witness.

   4            MR. FITZGERALD:  The government calls Mark Whitworth.


   6        called as a witness by the government,

   7        having been duly sworn, testified as follows:

   8            DEPUTY CLERK:  Please state your full name.

   9            THE WITNESS:  Full name is W. Mark Whitworth.

  10            DEPUTY CLERK:  Spell your last name.

  11            THE WITNESS:  W-H-I-T-W-O-R-T-H.

  12            DEPUTY CLERK:  That's mark with a K?

  13            THE WITNESS:  Yes.



  16   Q.  Good afternoon.

  17   A.  Good afternoon.

  18   Q.  If you could tell the jury what you do for a living.

  19   A.  I'm a supervisor special agent with the Federal Bureau of

  20   Investigation.

  21   Q.  And where are you currently assigned?

  22   A.  The laboratory division as an explosives and hazardous

  23   devices examiner.

  24   Q.  And let me direct your attention to August of 1998.  Were

  25   you with the FBI at that time?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                             Whitworth - direct

   1   A.  Yes, I was.

   2   Q.  And were you then qualified as an explosives and hazardous

   3   devices examiner at that time?

   4   A.  No, I was in training at that time.

   5   Q.  And in August of 1998, were you deployed overseas?

   6   A.  Yes, sir.

   7   Q.  And where were you deployed?

   8   A.  To principally to Nairobi, Kenya.

   9   Q.  Let me direct your attention to August 20th of 1998.  Did

  10   there come a time that day when you went to CID headquarters?

  11   A.  Yes, sir.

  12   Q.  Can you tell the jury where it is you went and what it is

  13   that you did?

  14   A.  Went to an office at the CID headquarters in Nairobi to

  15   process a bag that had been brought in from an individual in

  16   the case.

  17   Q.  And who were you with when you went there?

  18   A.  Another agent from the Washington field office named

  19   Lourdes McLoughlin.

  20   Q.  L-O-U-R-D-E-S for Lourdes?

  21   A.  Yes.

  22   Q.  And McLoughlin, M-c-L-O-U-G-H-L-I-N?

  23   A.  Yes.

  24   Q.  And where did you and Agent McLoughlin go?

  25   A.  We went in to one of the offices in the CID headquarters

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                             Whitworth - direct

   1   where there was a bag located.

   2   Q.  And could you tell whether this office belonged to a

   3   particular person, or what can you tell about how it was used?

   4   A.  It did not appear to me to be an office that was used by a

   5   person because there wasn't any momentos or personal items in

   6   there.  I remember it as just being very sparse with a desk

   7   and maybe a table in the office.

   8   Q.  And what did you do when you went inside the office?

   9   A.  We were asked to process a bag that was there with swabs

  10   for chemical residues.  So we had a swab kit with us so we put

  11   on Tyvek and gloves so that we could start to go through the

  12   bag and see what material was in it.

  13   Q.  And when you say "we put on Tyvek," who was the "we"?

  14   A.  Lourdes and I, because we would be the principal handlers

  15   of the material.

  16   Q.  Can you explain to the jury what process you went through

  17   in examining the bag?

  18   A.  First of all, like I said, we but on Tyvek, which are

  19   paper coveralls, and gloves, and then I took control swabs of

  20   my hands and just a control swab by itself to make sure there

  21   was no contamination present.

  22   Q.  Let me approach you with what has been premarked as

  23   Government Exhibits 533A and 534A for identification.

  24            If you could look at 533A first, which I believe

  25   is -- look at the yellow sticker and see which number it is.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                             Whitworth - direct

   1   A.  Yes, 534.

   2   Q.  Can you tell us what 533A is?

   3   A.  533A.  Sorry, sir.  It's a vacuum sample that would have

   4   been used for an instrument that is used to vacuum for

   5   explosives samples.

   6   Q.  And 533A, what was vacuum sampled to create that document?

   7   A.  This was the vacuum sample of my gloves and the lower part

   8   of the sleeves of my Tyvek suit after I put it on.

   9   Q.  And what do you do after you take each vacuum sample?

  10   Does the vacuum change in any way?

  11   A.  It was sealed in one of these pink -- or one of these

  12   clear plastic envelopes and it was marked with my initials.

  13   Q.  And what is 534A?

  14   A.  It's a glass, small glass bottle, with -- looks like

  15   cotton control swabs in it.

  16   Q.  And what was that a control swab of?

  17   A.  This was just a control swab of the cotton and the alcohol

  18   that is used, the solvent on the cotton by itself being placed

  19   in the bag.

  20   Q.  And how do you recognize that as the control swab that you

  21   took?

  22   A.  By my initials that are on the bottle.

  23            MR. FITZGERALD:  Your Honor, the government would

  24   offer Government Exhibits 533A and 534A.

  25            MR. HERMAN:  No objection.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                             Whitworth - direct

   1            THE COURT:  Received.

   2            (Government Exhibits 533A and 534A received in

   3   evidence)


   5   Q.  What did you do after doing these two control swab

   6   procedures?

   7   A.  Proceeded to take the items out of the bag so that we

   8   could see what was in it, see where the best places to swab

   9   the bag would be.

  10   Q.  And did you take the items out of the bag?

  11   A.  Yes.

  12   Q.  And what, if anything, did you notice about the inside of

  13   the bag itself?

  14   A.  It has a plastic liner on the bottom and it also has a

  15   coating on the inside that has flaked off and is lying in the

  16   bottom of the bag.

  17   Q.  And what, if any, samples did you take of the bag?

  18   A.  We took a vacuuming on the inside of the bag and

  19   swabbings, also.  We also took swabbings of the handle of the

  20   bag.

  21   Q.  Let me approach you with what has been premarked as

  22   Government Exhibit 533B and 533C and then 534B.

  23            Starting with 533B, which should be on the far right,

  24   can you tell us what that is?

  25   A.  533B?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                             Whitworth - direct

   1   Q.  Yes.

   2   A.  It is a vacuuming swab, also from the bag.

   3   Q.  And 533C?

   4   A.  533C is also a vacuum swab from the bag.

   5   Q.  How do you recognize those particular items?

   6   A.  Both items have my initials on it and along with the file

   7   number and their swab numbers and the fact that they are from

   8   the bag residue.

   9   Q.  And looking at 534B, the one item on your far left now, do

  10   you recognize that item?

  11   A.  Yes, sir.  This is one of the swabs that were taken of the

  12   bag.

  13   Q.  And let me approach you with one more item, 534C.  Do you

  14   recognize that item?

  15   A.  Yes.  Again, it's a glass vial that we would use to put

  16   the swabs in and it also has my initials on it.

  17            MR. FITZGERALD:  Your Honor, I would offer Government

  18   Exhibits 533B and C and 534B and C.

  19            MR. HERMAN:  No objection.

  20            THE COURT:  Received.

  21            (Government Exhibits 533B, 533C, 534B and 534C

  22   received in evidence)


  24   Q.  Now, as to the items that were contained in the bag, what,

  25   if anything, did you do with them?

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                             Whitworth - direct

   1   A.  Some items we separated out to be processed by the FBI

   2   laboratory and other items were placed back in the bag.

   3   Q.  And do you recall which items you separated out from the

   4   bag to be processed separately?

   5   A.  Yes, sir.

   6   Q.  What do you recall about those items?

   7   A.  There was a pair of glasses and a magazine from -- an

   8   in-flight magazine from an airlines, some items of clothing,

   9   and a towel and what we called a sheet at the time for lack of

  10   a better term for it.

  11   Q.  Was there anything about the in-flight magazine that drew

  12   your attention?

  13   A.  Yes, sir.  It had indented writing on the cover.  In other

  14   words, someone had used it and written on a paper on top of it

  15   so the writing had entered through to the cover.

  16   Q.  Let me approach you with what has been premarked as

  17   Government Exhibits 535A, B and C.

  18            THE COURT:  How much longer?

  19            MR. FITZGERALD:  A bit longer, Judge.  We could break

  20   here, if you prefer.

  21            THE COURT:  Perhaps we should break here.

  22            All right, ladies and gentlemen, we'll break here and

  23   we'll resume tomorrow.  And again, I apologize for the dust

  24   storm and we're going to try and work on that some more this

  25   evening.  Have a pleasant evening.

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                             Whitworth - direct

   1            (Jury not present)

   2            THE COURT:  Anything we need take up before the jury

   3   returns tomorrow?

   4            MR. HERMAN:  No, your honor.

   5            THE COURT:  We're adjourned, then, until tomorrow

   6   morning.

   7            (Adjourned to 10:00 a.m. on April 3, 2001)



















                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300
                             Whitworth - direct

   1                        INDEX OF EXAMINATION

   2   Witness                    D      X      RD     RX

   3   SOHAIL ANJUM............3584   3590

   4   MOHAMED RIAZ GONDAL.....3600   3613

   5   GABRIEL MUTUNGA.........3619   3631    3644

   6   ROSEMARY WANJIRU........3645   3652    3664    3665

   7   CHARLES K. SCIARINI.....3666   3670

   8   W. MARK WHITWORTH.......3677

   9                        GOVERNMENT EXHIBITS

  10   Exhibit No.                                     Received

  11    181, 540, and 541A-541N ....................3578

  12    518 ........................................3579

  13    519A through 519C ..........................3580

  14    523 and 523T ...............................3582

  15    520A and 520B ..............................3583

  16    526A .......................................3589

  17    259 ........................................3599

  18    526C .......................................3605

  19    542-I.D. and 542 ...........................3609

  20    545R .......................................3613

  21    546 ........................................3623

  22    547 ........................................3629

  23    548 ........................................3651

  24    533A and 534A ..............................3681

  25    533B, 533C, 534B and 534C ..................3682

                  SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (212) 805-0300


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