22 June 2004
Source: Digital file from Southern District Reporters Office; (212) 805-0300.
Note: Transcripts were not provided between 1 June and 21 June, 2004.
This is the transcript of Day 9 of the trial.
See other transcripts: http://cryptome.org/usa-v-ssy-dt.htm
Lynne Stewart web site with case documents: http://www.lynnestewart.org/
1947
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1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
1 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
2 -------------------------------------x
2 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
3
3 v. S1 02 Cr. 395 (JGK)
4
4 AHMED ABDEL SATTAR, a/k/a "Abu Omar,"
5 a/k/a "Dr. Ahmed," LYNNE STEWART,
5 and MOHAMMED YOUSRY,
6
6 Defendants.
7 -------------------------------------x
7
8 June 21, 2004
8 9:45 a.m.
9
9
10
10 Before:
11 HON. JOHN G. KOELTL
11
12 District Judge
12
13
13 APPEARANCES
14
14 DAVID N. KELLEY
15 United States Attorney for the
15 Southern District of New York
16 ROBIN BAKER
16 CHRISTOPHER MORVILLO
17 ANTHONY BARKOW
17 ANDREW DEMBER
18 Assistant United States Attorneys
18
19 KENNETH A. PAUL
19 BARRY M. FALLICK
20 Attorneys for Defendant Sattar
20
21 MICHAEL TIGAR
21 JILL R. SHELLOW-LAVINE
22 Attorneys for Defendant Stewart
22
23 DAVID STERN
23 DAVID A. RUHNKE
24 Attorneys for Defendant Yousry
25
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1948
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1 (Trial resumed)
2 THE COURT: Good morning. We are waiting for all of
3 the jurors. There is a line downstairs. So while we are
4 waiting I thought I could use the time with all of you to cover
5 a couple of other things.
6 In terms of the logistics this morning, I will
7 probably call more than one card at a time from the wheel so
8 that when the security officers -- in order so that when the
9 security officers go to get the jurors they can be brought two
10 rather than one, with only one being brought into the
11 courtroom. But if we waited until we were finished with one
12 and then the security officer went and brought another, it
13 would substantially increase the time. So we may bring two at
14 a time or three at a time, but only one would be brought into
15 the courtroom. Anyone else would be kept outside so that they
16 don't hear the responses to the individual questions that I ask
17 of the juror.
18 And that is the only thing I have with respect to jury
19 selection this morning.
20 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, we did have a request to make
21 of the Court. We understand that the marshals services will be
22 providing transportation for the jurors. We would ask that the
23 Court issue a written order defining for the transportation
24 people what they may and may not do. They may not respond to
25 inquiries about how long the court day will be or anything to
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1949
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1 do with the case. They should refer those to Mr. Fletcher and
2 so on. I say that because they are, in a sense, bailiffs. We
3 would not ask that they be brought in and sworn. Sometimes the
4 marshals service recruits police officers to fill in when they
5 don't have enough people and there have been plenty of cases in
6 this courthouse and across the street where there have been
7 problems because the marshals simply didn't understand what
8 they were supposed to do.
9 THE COURT: Government.
10 MR. DEMBER: We have no objection to that, your Honor.
11 THE COURT: Didn't I issue another order with respect
12 to the marshals early on?
13 MR. TIGAR: I'm not big on short-term memory, your
14 Honor, so I really don't recall.
15 THE COURT: We were dealing with this issue early on.
16 MR. TIGAR: We were suggesting the order that each of
17 the marshals would have in their hand.
18 THE COURT: I can do an order which just says that the
19 marshals shall not talk to the jurors about the substance or
20 details of the case.
21 MR. TIGAR: Or any matters having to do with the
22 scheduling of the case, the court day or any other matters.
23 All matters dealing with the case in any respect will be taken
24 up with Mr. Fletcher.
25 THE COURT: About the substance or details of the
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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1 case, including scheduling. Any inquiries --
2 MR. TIGAR: The reason I mention scheduling, your
3 Honor, that was an issue in a case tried before Judge Lowe.
4 THE COURT: Including scheduling. And I will add an
5 additional paragraph to my initial instructions where I say,
6 you should also remember never to disclose your name, your
7 address to Mr. Fletcher, indeed any of the court staff. That
8 information is given only to the jury administrator's office
9 and to the marshals for purposes of transportation.
10 I also instruct you not to talk about the marshals
11 about the substance or the details of the case, including
12 scheduling. While the marshals will arrange transportation for
13 you, you are not to talk to them about anything to do with the
14 case, including scheduling.
15 I believe that the actual transportation is done by an
16 outside service that provides cars, or something.
17 Is that instruction satisfactory with everyone?
18 MR. DEMBER: Yes, your Honor.
19 MR. TIGAR: Yes, your Honor.
20 THE COURT: In view of some of the discussion last
21 week about one piece of correspondence that I had gotten from
22 Mr. Schmidt, I have not raised with all of you the issue of
23 showing anything to the jury in the course of opening
24 statements.
25 Now, my general rule is that nothing is shown to the
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1 jury in the course of opening statements because nothing is in
2 evidence. And nothing should be shown to the jury, including
3 demonstratives, because nothing is in evidence.
4 Now, some parties, when they hear that, say, well, we
5 would like to show charts or whatnot to the jury in the course
6 of opening statements. And my response is, if the parties
7 agree that they want to show a demonstrative, an outline or
8 something like that to the jury in the course of opening
9 statements, I will accede to the wishes of the parties, but
10 only if all of the parties agree to that and they show each
11 other before the opening what it is that they intend to show to
12 the jury. Failing that, the parties are welcome to have an
13 easel and they can write for the jury to assist them in talking
14 to the jury, but otherwise no. So I just wanted to explain
15 that to the parties before you have spent enormous amounts of
16 money preparing elaborate charts.
17 MR. RUHNKE: Your Honor, I have not spent an enormous
18 amount of money preparing charts. What I have done is create
19 what you call an electronic easel in the terms -- in the sense
20 of a Power Point type presentation which I would like to use in
21 opening on Mr. Yousry's behalf.
22 I have included in the presentation examples of pages
23 from the Yousry notebooks as the correspondence back and forth,
24 and I can certainly tell the jury as something that is going to
25 be in evidence, we expect, pages. If you looked at one of
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1 these pages, this is what you would see. And I certainly am
2 prepared to run the risk of showing the jury a page in Arabic
3 with a notation approved by Mr. Clark or something similar,
4 that it doesn't come into evidence down the road. But I'd like
5 to be able to use those kind of things in the opening. I know
6 the government has got some items they want to use as well. I
7 personally have no objection to the government doing that.
8 THE COURT: It would be useful for both sides to talk
9 about that. And, again, if the parties agree, I'm prepared to
10 yield to the agreement of the parties with respect to that
11 issue. The danger is, in my mind, that there is a -- that
12 something would be shown to the jury which is inflammatory or
13 prejudicial which wouldn't be shown in the course of the trial
14 because you would have exchanged demonstratives or the like and
15 you could argue out whether there is any problem with that
16 demonstrative. To spring it on the jury without having shown
17 it to the other side bears with it that risk.
18 Is there audio that goes along with the Power Point?
19 MR. RUHNKE: It is me, your Honor. I'm the audio, and
20 there is nothing that moves. There is no photographs. And
21 nothing that, I think, could even in the most adversarial sense
22 be characterized as inflammatory. If I'm thinking correctly,
23 the only exhibits or documents that I intend to show are
24 selected pages from the Yousry notebooks as examples of what
25 the jury will see later down the road. I think I just sent the
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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1 government copies of what I intended to show the jury.
2 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, we have seen the pages from
3 the notebooks that Mr. Ruhnke has -- he may use. We are not
4 certain that they will be admissible at trial, particularly if
5 offered by the defense. The government's view is they are
6 hearsay. We want to talk to Mr. Ruhnke about that. And we can
7 involve the Court if necessary. Hopefully, we won't have to.
8 As far as the government's opening statement, the only
9 thing that the government had intended to show the jury was a
10 photograph of Sheikh Abdul Rahman, if the defendant agrees, and
11 a very generic time line of events which I could also create on
12 an easel, if necessary.
13 MR. PAUL: I did not hear you.
14 MR. MORVILLO: The government intends to show a
15 photograph of Sheikh Abdul Rahman during its opening statement.
16 In addition to that, show perhaps a time line, very generic
17 time line of events as an aid during my opening statement. But
18 I've sent a letter to counsel on both of those issues last
19 night, and hopefully we can talk about that and avoid any
20 further dealings with the Court on this issue.
21 THE COURT: We are still waiting on some additional
22 jurors. Last count is we are waiting on 12. As I say, there
23 is a line downstairs.
24 That brings me to the next issue, which is the
25 reference in the opening to the testimony of what I described
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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1954
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1 as the second witness and the substance of belief witness.
2 Mr. Barkow wrote me a letter, including a copy of the leaflet.
3 My view continues to be that that testimony and the substance
4 of the leaflet, to the extent that it is a reference to
5 evidence that's going to be -- expected to be admitted at this
6 point and with the leaflet, should not be referred to in
7 opening.
8 This is -- and I agree with the substance of
9 Ms. Shellow-Lavine's letter. This is, in effect, the second
10 motion for reconsideration. I made it clear, this is only a
11 ruling on the motion in limine which was given to me by the
12 government and that I will look at all, all of these issues
13 from the Koskerides issue to the admissibility of leaflet at an
14 appropriate time in the course of the trial when I can decide
15 the evidentiary issues, as well as the 403 issues in the
16 context of where the trial is. And, of course, it is open to
17 the government to say at any time, we really need a ruling now
18 and I don't think that that would be wise.
19 I think that in terms of timing, Ms. Shellow-Lavine
20 got it about right, that it would be appropriate to do that
21 after the first eyewitness has testified, at which time I will
22 have everything that's gone on up until that point and I can
23 consider all of the issues, and the government could choose to
24 delay that even further.
25 There really is case law from the Court of Appeals
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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1 that says that on 403 issues they are best determined in the
2 context of the trial. And the more of the trial that goes on,
3 the better the trial court is, the better position the trial
4 court is in to make those kinds of judgments. I realize that
5 this is a mixed question that includes evidentiary issues as
6 well as 403 issues, and I will resolve all of them at the
7 appropriate time.
8 MR. TIGAR: Has your Honor made a determination with
9 respect to this whether the foundation matters would be taken
10 out of the presence of the jury?
11 THE COURT: No. And I don't think that that -- I
12 don't think that that can be answered in the abstract. The
13 usual way for such things as documents would be the witnesses
14 there, the witnesses testifying, the party proffering the
15 document makes what the party thinks is the sufficient basis to
16 offer the document. And if the other side doesn't agree, the
17 other side asks for a voir dire with respect to that and we
18 have it and I rule.
19 This matter, just because of the way in which it has
20 come up, has lent itself to more extensive briefing at the
21 outset.
22 MR. TIGAR: I certainly wanted to note that we have
23 asked that your Honor exercise your Honor's discretion under
24 Rule 104(b) with respect to that issue.
25 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, we want to make the Court
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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1956
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1 aware of our plan with respect to this, at least at this point.
2 As we have said before, our intention is to present our
3 evidence, roughly, chronologically, and chronologically
4 speaking the Luxor incident is early.
5 In light of what the Court has said, this is what we
6 propose to do. We were planning to call the eyewitness in the
7 second week of trial. We would like to still do that. The
8 Court may not at that point have sufficient context to make
9 this ruling. Therefore, we are not going to call the other
10 witness, second witness, that week. But in order to maintain
11 our chronological approach we still intend to call the
12 eyewitness and then when the issue is crystallized enough then
13 we can address the issue of the note and the other witness and
14 we are just telling that witness that he is not testifying that
15 week and we will put that off a little bit. We wanted to make
16 the Court aware of that.
17 THE COURT: That's what I expected and I think it was
18 the premise behind the responsive letter.
19 MR. BARKOW: And may I have just a moment, your Honor?
20 Your Honor, I just want to be clear. After the
21 eyewitness testifies, we are not planning on putting the second
22 witness on immediately. If the Court has determined at that
23 point that the issue is crystallized enough, then perhaps some
24 time soon thereafter we would do it, but we will just wait
25 until --
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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1957
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1 THE COURT: I know this is a person who has to be
2 given some time. I know that. What I was suggesting in my
3 remarks is the government could always say, even after the
4 first eyewitness was called, you know, we are -- we don't think
5 we need a ruling now on the second witness. We will put it
6 off. My usual practice is, I ask the parties, when do you
7 really need a decision on these issues? And I fully appreciate
8 that based upon what's gone on so far you would not be calling
9 the second witness right after the first witness because we
10 have to listen to the first witness, we have to -- I probably
11 will talk to the parties about all of the issues. Then, of
12 course, there is a timing issue with respect to scheduling a
13 witness.
14 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, with respect to this issue,
15 I certainly don't want to beat a dead horse, but I am not going
16 to talk about this particular witness. My concern is, I'm
17 slightly confused over the scope of the Court's concern with
18 respect to the substance of what is in the leaflet. The
19 government intends to prove at trial that the defendants knew
20 or had reason to believe that the Luxor attack was, A, carried
21 out by elements of the Islamic group and, B, done on behalf,
22 among other things, of obtaining Abdel Rahman's release.
23 THE COURT: I've read that in the indictment, I've
24 read that in the letter, and I realize that this is part of
25 what the government expects to prove at trial. That is not the
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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1958
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1 testimony of the second witness or the proffer of the leaflet,
2 which is the substantive evidence of the truth.
3 MR. MORVILLO: And that is what was presented to me in
4 the motion in limine that is different from the proffer as to
5 what the defendants knew or believed or thought with respect to
6 the issues in the case. And indeed it raises in my mind the
7 question of how much independent substantive evidence on that
8 is really necessary, which is what raises one of the issues
9 with respect to the second witness and the document itself
10 important or along the same lines with the Court's ruling with
11 the -- I wanted to make sure that if I said in my opening
12 statement something referring to the defendant's knowledge of
13 what happened at Luxor and the reasons for it, I would not be
14 running afoul.
15 THE COURT: You are not running afoul. And those are
16 related to the kinds of issues that I will have to look at in
17 determining all of the considerations with respect to the
18 admissibility of the testimony of the second witness and the
19 leaflet itself.
20 By the way, while I'm on that, I said that this was a
21 second motion for reconsideration. When I'm given a subject
22 and a motion for reconsideration is argued, I really expect all
23 of the aspects that you wish to bring to my attention be
24 included. And the first motion for reconsideration was argued
25 with respect to the leaflet as attributed to in substance as
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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1 the battalion of doom and destruction.
2 The second motion for reconsideration -- and I would
3 have thought that the government was familiar with the pamphlet
4 or the leaflet at the time that the first motion was argued --
5 the second motion then gets argued on the basis that there is
6 an attribution to the Islamic group, which was not, so far as I
7 heard or read, the substance of the first motion for
8 reconsideration, though it was material that was or should have
9 been known when that was being argued.
10 So all of that can be argued when I address all of the
11 issues. As I said, this came up in the context of the
12 government's motion in limine. I have made it very clear that
13 I will look at all of these issues and decide them and that a
14 decision on a motion in limine does not bind me when I look at
15 all of the issues in the context of the trial.
16 I'm still waiting for Mr. Fletcher to tell me that all
17 of the jurors are here. I'd like not to start without all of
18 them here because I have to bring them all in to give them the
19 preliminary remarks. And what will happen if we are going to
20 have to bring them in, we may lose people if they have not
21 shown up.
22 The last item that I had this morning was with respect
23 to the government's letter on the case agents. Have the
24 defendants gotten the letter on the case agents?
25 MR. TIGAR: Ms. Shellow-Lavine has it, your Honor.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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1 The rest of us have not seen it.
2 THE COURT: We can deal with that later then.
3 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, we have now read the letter.
4 We have no objection to the government's proposal with respect
5 to the case agents. We understood that should their presence
6 in the courtroom become relevant in terms of cross-examination
7 if they take the stand, we will be inquiring into it, not with
8 any suggestion that it be improper that they be here. But if
9 it becomes relevant, we will inquire.
10 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, that's fine. We expected
11 that. Obviously, the same is true with respect to those
12 defense witnesses who will be in the courtroom notwithstanding
13 the fact that they may testify during the defense case.
14 THE COURT: That's fine.
15 MR. BARKOW: Your Honor, one very small housekeeping
16 type issue since we are waiting for the jury. Before we select
17 the jury, my last name is pronounced Barkow and not Barkow.
18 Once we select the jury, I want it --
19 THE COURT: I'm sorry.
20 MR. BARKOW: That's no problem. I want it so the jury
21 can get it right.
22 THE COURT: Barkow. No problem. I've also probably
23 been mispronouncing Ms. Shellow-Lavine's name.
24 MS. SHELLOW-LAVINE: Actually, your Honor, you have
25 not been. You have been pronouncing it correctly.
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1 THE COURT: I have not been mispronouncing it?
2 MS. SHELLOW-LAVINE: That is correct, your Honor.
3 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, can I take a moment to show
4 the photograph of Sheikh Abdel Rahman to defense counsel?
5 THE COURT: Sure. I'll take a break until I hear that
6 all jurors are here. If everything goes as planned, the jurors
7 will be brought into the courtroom and then I will come out.
8 So we will take a break now.
9 MR. TIGAR: Will jurors begin to come into the
10 courtroom while your Honor is absent?
11 THE COURT: Yes.
12 MR. TIGAR: May we know when that starts so we can
13 stand as they do?
14 THE COURT: Sure.
15 (Continued on next page)
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SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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1962
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1 (11:00 a.m.)
2 (In open court; jury not present)
3 THE COURT: The jury office has been attempting to get
4 ahold of jurors who didn't show up and follow up. Even after
5 that -- and some jurors have forgotten. Even after that, at
6 this point, an hour and a half after we were supposed to begin,
7 there are 11 jurors who have not shown up, and what I intend to
8 do is to simply, at this point, remove those jurors from the
9 pool. And we will begin, and should any of those jurors show
10 up, Mr. Grate will just keep them aside. But you will recall
11 that we have 79 on the list, minus 11, which gives us 68.
12 Yes?
13 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, I just wanted to make a
14 suggestion: It occurs to us, based on some prior experiences
15 that some of our colleagues have had in other cases where
16 similar jury selection procedures were followed that it's
17 possible that even out of the number of people who are here,
18 which is 68, as your Honor just said, that some number of them
19 may have developed reasons why they are going to seek to be
20 excused or need to be excused, and so instead of your Honor
21 deciding at this point that the 11 who haven't showed are
22 excused, that instead you essentially keep those in reserve so
23 that --
24 THE COURT: I agree. I said, I will keep them aside.
25 I'll tell Mr. Grate that they're simply not in the pool right
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1 now; but no, they're not being excused. And, no, they're not
2 excused. I agree with that. And we will begin with my remarks
3 to the 68 and randomly picking the 68.
4 As I said, if any of the 11 show up, Mr. Grate will be
5 asked to keep them aside and, you know, if we did not
6 individually voir dire enough, we will individually voir dire
7 more. We've got a large, large number that I think we didn't
8 quite yet reach at the defendants' request, and so I'll --
9 everyone agree with that?
10 MR. DEMBER: Yes, your Honor.
11 MR. TIGAR: Yes, your Honor.
12 THE COURT: I told you before the 11 who have not
13 shown up yet, and I'll tell you the 11 who have not shown up
14 yet will be kept aside. Jurors 31, 38, 84, 146, 190, 268, 304,
15 347, 368, 383, and 407.
16 And if Mr. Fletcher will tell Mr. Grate to bring up
17 the 68 jurors, and if any other jurors should show up, please
18 keep them separate. Okay? And so you should expect the jurors
19 coming up shortly.
20 Yes, Ms. Baker?
21 MS. BAKER: Just one small logistical question for
22 purposes of us making a chart or diagram for following along
23 the jury selection. Does your Honor know in the other
24 courtroom in which the 56 will be arrayed how many jurors will
25 sit in each row and how many rows?
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1 THE COURT: Mr. Fletcher?
2 DEPUTY CLERK: You want me to put it on the record? I
3 can talk with the lawyers.
4 THE COURT: Mr. Fletcher can talk with you about that.
5 Go ahead, you can do it on the record.
6 DEPUTY CLERK: In 9B -- they'll be in 9B. They'll be
7 in the box, 21, they'll be 1 through 7. Everything will be
8 left to right. One through 7 is the first row. Eight through
9 14 is the second row. 15 through 21 is the third row. And in
10 the pew there will be -- there'll be two sets of pews. There
11 are the long pews and the short pews. Everything will go left
12 to right. It will be 21 through I believe it's 28 -- excuse
13 me, no, 21 through 33. And I believe it's 34, and in the
14 second pew, long and short, it will be 34 through, I believe
15 it's 45, and then the third will be 45 through --
16 THE COURT: 46.
17 DEPUTY CLERK: 46 through 56.
18 THE COURT: Okay? All right. Mr. Fletcher, will you
19 ask Mr. Grate to bring up the 68?
20 (Off the record)
21 THE COURT: Juror 304 showed up. So it's only 10
22 missing. And Mr. Grate, if those 10 come, please keep them
23 separate, but keep them here.
24 MR. GRATE:
25 JUROR ADMINISTRATOR GRATE: Oh, certainly.
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1 THE COURT: And you can now bring up the 69. The
2 jurors will come in through the front and be seated over here.
3 (Recess)
4 THE COURT: Just briefly, the jurors are about to come
5 in, but 146 and 268 have arrived. And I told you before that
6 304 arrived. So there are seven who did not -- there are eight
7 who did not show up. All right.
8 (Jury venire enters courtroom)
9 (In open court)
10 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, be seated. Ladies
11 and gentlemen, good morning. It's good to see you all again.
12 Today is the final day of the jury selection process. And I
13 would like to explain to you how the process will work. After
14 these very brief preliminary remarks, all of the prospective
15 jurors will be taken to another courtroom on this floor,
16 Courtroom 9A. Then in this courtroom, here, all of the
17 numbers, the identification numbers for the jurors, will be
18 placed in a wooden wheel. Mr. Fletcher, would you show the
19 jurors the wooden wheel that we use? All right. That's the
20 jury selection wheel.
21 Then Mr. Fletcher, the deputy clerk, will pick numbers
22 of the jurors randomly and blindly from that wheel. The
23 individual jurors whose numbers are picked will then be called
24 individually into this courtroom to be asked a very few final
25 questions. I remind you, as I am sure you all appreciate, that
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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1 the oath that you took on the first day you appeared for jury
2 selection to give true answers to all questions put to you,
3 continues to apply.
4 If those jurors who are picked from the wheel are
5 qualified to serve as jurors in this case, they will then be
6 asked to go to a third courtroom, another courtroom on this
7 floor, Courtroom 9B, where they will be seated in the order in
8 which they have been called, from 1 to 56. It is important to
9 stay in that order, and the marshals will help you to find your
10 correct seat in that courtroom, courtroom 9B. Even though you
11 will be seated in order from 1 to 56, always remember your
12 original juror identification number. That is your
13 identification and will remain with you throughout the jury
14 selection process, and indeed throughout the trial if you are
15 selected as a juror.
16 The parties are then given the opportunity to excuse a
17 certain number of jurors without giving any reason. This is
18 one of the ways in which we ensure that the jury that is
19 finally chosen is fair and impartial. As you must realize, the
20 answers to the questions that you have been asked cannot give a
21 thorough picture of you as a person. Therefore, you should not
22 view your having been excused as a reflection on you as a
23 citizen or as a person. You have done your duty by your
24 presence, by your availability and by your readiness to serve
25 if required.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
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1967
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1 I remind you of the importance of following my
2 continuing instructions not to talk about this case. I fully
3 appreciate that today you will find yourself together with
4 other prospective jurors in various places and in various
5 numbers. Please, please, do not talk to any of the other
6 prospective jurors about this case or anything to do with it.
7 Indeed, you should not talk to anyone about this case,
8 including any of the parties or their counsel.
9 All right? I will now ask that the prospective jurors
10 go with the marshals to Courtroom 9A. All rise, please.
11 (Jury venire exits the courtroom)
12 (Off the record)
13 THE COURT: One juror was in the courtroom but then
14 went to the restroom, and Mr. Grate advises that she said she
15 heard my remarks. I don't know which juror it is. I'm
16 perfectly happy to call the juror in and just ask her whether
17 she heard all of my remarks.
18 MR. PAUL: Judge, I don't think it's necessary.
19 MR. TIGAR: No.
20 THE COURT: So just send her with the other jurors?
21 MR. TIGAR: Yes, your Honor.
22 THE COURT: Does the government agree?
23 MR. DEMBER: Your Honor, we would like you to question
24 her, yes.
25 THE COURT: All right. I don't know which juror
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1968
46LLSAT2
1 number it is, but just bring her in and I'm happy just to
2 assure that she heard all of my remarks.
3 MR. DEMBER: Your Honor, before that juror is brought
4 back in, at some point while we were waiting for the jurors to
5 be brought in, I think Mr. Morvillo and I spotted her in the
6 waiting area outside this courtroom. I don't know if she heard
7 anybody talking about the case at all, but you may want to
8 inquire about that.
9 (Off the record)
10 THE COURT: We weren't sure where the juror had gone.
11 Mr. Grate has found the prospective juror now. So we'll bring
12 her in.
13 (Prospective juror enters the courtroom)
14 THE COURT: Just take the first seat. Thank you,
15 Ma'am. Just have a seat. Hi.
16 JUROR: Hi.
17 THE COURT: Which juror are you? Juror Number?
18 JUROR: 349.
19 THE COURT: Okay. Hi, Juror 349. Did you hear all of
20 my preliminary remarks this morning?
21 JUROR: Yes, I did.
22 THE COURT: And I realize that there might have been
23 some confusion about where to go. In the course of moving
24 around, did you hear anyone here talk about the case at all?
25 JUROR: No, I didn't.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1969
46LLSAT2
1 THE COURT: Okay. Juror 349, could you go with
2 Mr. Grate or one of the marshals into Courtroom 9A with the
3 other jurors? Thank you very much.
4 (Prospective juror exits the courtroom)
5 THE COURT: Are we now ready to begin to pick? Yes.
6 All right. Mr. Fletcher, let's pick the first two jurors.
7 DEPUTY CLERK: The person in seat Number 1 is
8 Number 230; the person in seat Number 2 is Number 329.
9 THE COURT: All right. Let's bring in Juror 230, and
10 then 329, one at a time.
11 (Juror present)
12 BY THE COURT:
13 Q. Good morning, Juror 230. Since you were here last, has
14 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
15 this case, or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
16 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
17 impartial juror in this case?
18 A. No, your Honor.
19 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
20 any one spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
21 listened to anything about the case, and that includes any
22 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
23 prospective jurors?
24 A. No, I have not.
25 Q. All right. Thank you, Sir. And could you now go to
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1970
46LLSAT2
1 Courtroom 9B, take seat Number 1?
2 A. Thank you.
3 (Juror absent)
4 (Juror present)
5 BY THE COURT:
6 Q. Good morning, Juror 329. Since you were here last, has
7 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
8 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
9 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
10 impartial in this case?
11 A. Yes; and no to the last one. I might be moving, but I
12 don't know yet. I was looking at houses out-of-state.
13 MS. SHELLOW-LAVINE: I can't hear him.
14 THE COURT: Can we have the mike, please?
15 A. I might be moving and I was looking at houses out-of-state,
16 but nothing has happened yet.
17 Q. What is the likelihood that you would move? The trial is
18 expected to last -- could last four to six months.
19 A. Right.
20 Q. And if you were chosen as a juror in this case --
21 A. I would serve.
22 Q. And you would not be moving?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Thank you. Since you were here last, have you spoken to
25 anyone or has anyone spoken to you about this case or have you
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1971
46LLSAT2
1 looked at or listened to anything about the case, and that
2 includes any conversations here at the courthouse or with any
3 other prospective juror?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Thank you, Sir. Would you take seat Number 2 in
6 Courtroom 9B?
7 (Juror absent)
8 THE COURT: Can you pull another two cards for Jurors
9 3 and 4?
10 DEPUTY CLERK: Seat Number 3 will be 129; seat
11 Number 4 is 283.
12 THE COURT: While the marshals are getting those two
13 jurors, Mr. Fletcher can pick the next two numbers also.
14 Two jurors showed up, but we're keeping them separate.
15 We'll just tell Mr. Grate to keep them separate.
16 (Continued on next page)
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1972
46LMSAT3
1 THE COURT: Mr. Fletcher, while we are waiting, pick
2 the next two numbers for seat No. 5 and 6.
3 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Seat No. 5 is juror 41. Seat No. 6
4 is No. 192.
5 (Juror present)
6 BY THE COURT:
7 Q. Please have a seat, juror 129.
8 Good morning, juror 129. Since you were here last,
9 has anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a
10 juror in this case or has anything occurred to you or have you
11 seen or heard anything that may affect your ability to be a
12 fair and impartial juror in this case?
13 A. Nothing has changed.
14 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
15 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
16 listened to anything about the case? And that includes any
17 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
18 prospective jurors.
19 A. No.
20 Q. Juror 129, can you take seat No. 3 in courtroom 9B. Thank
21 you.
22 (Juror not present)
23 (Juror present)
24 BY THE COURT:
25 Q. Good morning, juror 283.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1973
46LMSAT3
1 A. Good morning.
2 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
3 your ability to serve as a juror in this case or has anything
4 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
5 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
6 case?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
9 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
10 listened to anything about the case? And that includes any
11 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
12 prospective jurors.
13 A. No, your Honor.
14 Q. Thank you, sir.
15 Could you take seat No. 4 in courtroom 9B.
16 (Juror not present)
17 THE COURT: Mr. Fletcher, could you pull another two
18 cards for jurors 7 and 8.
19 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Was that No. 4?
20 THE COURT: Juror 283 is No. 4.
21 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Did we go through 192?
22 THE COURT: Juror No. 5 is 41.
23 41 is seat 5. 192 is seat 6.
24 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Call No. 2.
25 THE COURT: The marshals should be getting 41 and 192.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1974
46LMSAT3
1 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Seat No. 7 is juror 338.
2 (Juror present)
3 BY THE COURT:
4 Q. Juror 41, since you were here last, has anything changed
5 concerning your ability to serve as a juror in this case or has
6 anything occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything
7 that may affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror
8 in this case?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
11 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
12 listened to anything about the case? And that includes any
13 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
14 prospective jurors.
15 A. No.
16 Q. Thank you, juror 41. Could you take seat No. 5 in
17 courtroom 9B.
18 (Juror not present)
19 (Juror present)
20 BY THE COURT:
21 Q. Hi. Good morning, juror 192. Since you were here last,
22 has anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a
23 juror in this case or has anything occurred to you or have you
24 seen or heard anything that may affect your ability to be a
25 fair and impartial juror in this case?
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1975
46LMSAT3
1 A. Things have changed, Judge. I got a new job and I'm
2 starting July 6, and I am not going to be available to serve as
3 a juror because I have to start this new job.
4 Q. Will your new job pay?
5 A. No. The first three months of probation. I have to pass
6 these three tests or get fired.
7 Q. What job is it?
8 A. It is a financial planning job for Axa Advisors.
9 Q. Could you step out for a moment.
10 (Juror not present)
11 THE COURT: I'm prepared to excuse the juror.
12 MR. DEMBER: Your Honor, the government consents.
13 MR. RUHNKE: We agree, your Honor.
14 THE COURT: Bring back juror 192.
15 (Juror present)
16 BY THE COURT:
17 Q. Juror 192, you are excused and you can go home now and all
18 of your paperwork will be taken care of through the mail. And,
19 in fact, you should probably leave that way so that you don't
20 go through any of the other jurors that way. You can go home.
21 A. Thank you.
22 Q. Thank you, sir.
23 (Juror not present)
24 THE DEPUTY CLERK: I'll call another for seat No. 6.
25 THE COURT: No. And we are calling them in order so
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1976
46LMSAT3
1 if I get ahead and we strike someone, they just move up. Seat
2 No. 6 will now be juror 338.
3 And why don't we also pull cards for seats 7 and 8.
4 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Seat No. 7 is juror 400, and seat
5 No. 8 is juror 407.
6 MR. MORVILLO: 407?
7 THE COURT: Seat 7 is 400, seat 8 is 407.
8 407 is not here.
9 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 338 is coming in.
10 THE COURT: 407 is not here.
11 (Juror present)
12 BY THE COURT:
13 Q. Good morning, juror 338. Since you were here last, has
14 anyone changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
15 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
16 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
17 impartial juror in this case?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
20 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
21 listened to anything about the case? And that includes any
22 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
23 prospective jurors.
24 A. No.
25 Q. Juror 338, could you take seat No. 6 in courtroom 9B.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1977
46LMSAT3
1 (Juror not present)
2 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Shall I call another name, your
3 Honor?
4 THE COURT: Yes.
5 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Seat No. 8 is juror 412.
6 (Juror present)
7 BY THE COURT:
8 Q. Good morning, juror 400. Since you were here last, has
9 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
10 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
11 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
12 impartial juror in this case?
13 A. The only thing that has occurred to me, as I had stated
14 previously, is that I will be getting a new boss who is coming
15 in. And not being there while he comes in could prove
16 stressful.
17 Q. We went through that.
18 A. I understand that, but that's my job.
19 Q. I'm sorry?
20 A. It is my job. And someone coming in who is going to have
21 to hire a temp for the length of time that I would have to
22 serve, you know, would affect my job.
23 Q. Is there anything about that that would prevent you from
24 being a fair and impartial juror in this case?
25 A. I think I would think about my job. I had been unemployed
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1978
46LMSAT3
1 for a year. I have not been on this job a year. And having
2 someone new come in and the fact that there are no guarantees.
3 Q. Well, when we explored this last time you said that your
4 employer would pay you your salary.
5 A. I agree. But the employer is big. The department is
6 small.
7 Q. And you also explained to me and it is very important that
8 if I decided that this was not a sufficient reason not to serve
9 that you would not hold it against any of the parties.
10 A. This is true.
11 Q. And that you would be a fair and impartial juror in this
12 case.
13 A. I would try to the best of my ability, yes.
14 Q. Wait a moment. Hold on. We went through this last time
15 and so you tell me, if you were chosen as a juror in this case,
16 would you hold it against any of the parties?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Would you be fair and impartial?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Everyone has obligations. And as I am sure I explained to
21 you, the parties, just as if you were involved in a case, would
22 want people in their community to serve, so the parties and the
23 Court want to make absolutely sure both that there is a
24 cross-section of the community and, of course, that the jurors
25 are fair and impartial.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1979
46LMSAT3
1 So if you were chosen as a juror in this case, would
2 you be a fair and impartial juror?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
5 anyone spoken to you about this case, or have you looked at or
6 listened to anything about the case? And that includes any
7 conversations here in the courthouse or with any other
8 prospective jurors.
9 A. No.
10 Q. Juror 400, could you step outside just for a moment.
11 (Juror not present)
12 THE COURT: I'll ask juror No. 400 to take seat No. 7.
13 Everyone agrees.
14 (Juror present)
15 BY THE COURT:
16 Q. Juror 400, will you take seat No. 7 in courtroom 9B. Thank
17 you.
18 (Juror not present)
19 THE COURT: We are waiting on juror 412. Please pull
20 the next two cards for seats 9 and 10.
21 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Seat No. 9 is juror 43. Seat No.
22 10 is 259.
23 (Juror present)
24 BY THE COURT:
25 Q. Good morning, juror 412. Since you were here last, has
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1980
46LMSAT3
1 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
2 this case, or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
3 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
4 impartial juror in this case?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
7 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
8 listened to anything about the case? And that includes any
9 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
10 prospective jurors.
11 A. No, I have not.
12 Q. Juror No. 412, could you take seat No. 8 in courtroom 9B.
13 (Juror not present)
14 THE DEPUTY CLERK: I'll call two others?
15 THE COURT: Yes.
16 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Seat No. 11 is juror 209. Seat No.
17 12 is juror 217.
18 (Juror present)
19 BY THE COURT:
20 Q. Good afternoon, juror 43.
21 Since you were here last, has anything changed
22 concerning your ability to serve as a juror in this case, or
23 has anything occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything
24 that may affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror
25 in this case?
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1981
46LMSAT3
1 A. No.
2 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
3 anyone spoken to you about this case, other have you looked at
4 or listened to anything about the case? And that includes any
5 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
6 prospective jurors.
7 A. There was something that came up this morning at my job.
8 It is something that came across on the wire, a story regarding
9 this case. Because of the nature of my job, when the title of
10 the story came across, I had to read some of it. When I
11 realized exactly what it was, I stopped reading.
12 Q. Do you recall what it was that you saw in the article?
13 A. Yes. It was a story about how this trial was about to
14 begin.
15 Q. Anything else that you recall?
16 A. It mentioned one of the defendants, Lynne Stewart.
17 Q. Anything else?
18 A. No, nothing else.
19 Q. If you were chosen as a juror in this case you would have
20 to decide the case based solely upon the evidence or lack of
21 evidence and not on the basis of anything you may have seen,
22 heard, or read before. Would you do that?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And is there anything about the article, which I appreciate
25 you bringing to my attention, anything about that that would
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1982
46LMSAT3
1 prevent you from being a fair and impartial juror in this case?
2 A. No.
3 Q. And will you continue to follow my instructions as you have
4 done? If you see or hear anything about the case, just turn
5 away.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Juror No. 43, could you step out just for a moment.
8 (Juror not present)
9 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, I have a particular concern,
10 and that is that if this juror is going to continue to go to
11 his office or place of work during the trial, there are bound
12 to be other headlines and other leads with items that, given
13 the nature of the evidentiary decisions that your Honor will be
14 called upon to make, some of which you have previewed this
15 morning, create what seems to us to be an unacceptably high
16 degree of risk that the juror who would be exposed to matters
17 that would not ultimately make their way into the evidence in
18 the case.
19 And for that reason we would ask your Honor to follow
20 up and find out if he is going to have any connection with his
21 employment during this time. And if he says yes, too much
22 danger.
23 THE COURT: I'll follow up.
24 (Juror present)
25 BY THE COURT:
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1983
46LMSAT3
1 Q. Juror 43, if you were chosen as a juror in this case you
2 would be here and all of your time would be taken up really
3 with the case.
4 A. Right.
5 Q. Would you make arrangements that you were not at your
6 employer during that period?
7 A. I would have to make arrangements.
8 Q. You would not be exposed to the kind of continuing thing
9 that you saw this morning?
10 A. Right.
11 Q. And with respect to anything that just occurs in the papers
12 or on the news or radio, anything, would you continue to follow
13 my instructions about not looking?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Thank you. Can you step out just for a moment.
16 (Juror not present)
17 THE COURT: I'll ask juror 43 to take seat No. 9.
18 Okay.
19 Bring juror 43 back in.
20 (Juror present)
21 BY THE COURT:
22 Q. Juror 43, would you take seat No. 9 in courtroom 9B. Thank
23 you.
24 A. No. 9.
25 (Juror not present)
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1984
46LMSAT3
1 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Your Honor, shall I call two more
2 jurors?
3 THE COURT: Sure. We have jurors 259, 209, and 217
4 coming, but let's call two more.
5 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Seat No. 13 is juror 248.
6 (Juror present)
7 BY THE COURT:
8 Q. Good morning, juror 259. Since you were here last, has
9 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
10 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
11 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
12 impartial juror in this case?
13 A. The only thing I would say is my employer has advised me
14 that if I am selected, I will have to work nights, because I'm
15 the only employee of the business. So after doing my duty I
16 will have to work at night because we are unable to hire any
17 new employees.
18 Q. Can you do that?
19 A. Can I do that? I don't know.
20 Q. Well.
21 A. I would explain the nature of my job, if I would. I'm a
22 funeral director and embalmer in that capacity and there is an
23 extreme shortage in that profession. We have been trying for
24 two years to hire staff with no luck. I am the only person of
25 a 300-person funeral home, the owner and myself, and we do have
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1985
46LMSAT3
1 a trainee. I would have to do whatever needs to be done at
2 night until I come in in the morning.
3 THE COURT: I don't know how long it takes you and
4 time -- the time you would have to spend.
5 A. It varies, depending how many people died in a given day.
6 Q. And so it would be important if you were chosen as a juror
7 that you would be able to conscientiously serve during the day
8 and that the fact that you did work at night wouldn't interfere
9 with your ability to be a fair, conscientious, attentive juror
10 during the day. And can you do that?
11 A. I could try. It all depends -- I have never had to work --
12 I don't know what time I return from here and what I would be
13 doing, and transportation down here to Manhattan from
14 Westchester. I know I left at 7 this morning to get here.
15 Q. And we sit until 4:30. So can you do it?
16 A. I'm inclined to think it would be difficult. Again, if I'm
17 selected, I have no option. I just do what I have to do to
18 maintain my job and do my service.
19 Q. You say you would have to do it. It is important to me to
20 know that if you physically can't. You will be a fair and
21 conscientious juror. We sit four days a week, obviously. We
22 don't sit Fridays. We don't sit weekends.
23 A. My normal work schedule is Thursday through Monday. So
24 Tuesdays and Wednesdays are my workdays off, so I would be, in
25 any event, working Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. That's my
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1986
46LMSAT3
1 normal working environment. So it would be on the Monday,
2 Tuesday -- Monday and Thursday I would be working the entire
3 night.
4 Q. Of course, we don't sit Fridays, so it would be -- you
5 would be talking a question of -- you don't work on Mondays and
6 Tuesdays.
7 A. Tuesdays and Wednesdays.
8 Q. Really what you're talking about is having to work,
9 perhaps, depending upon what the situation is, on some Monday
10 and Thursday nights.
11 A. It all depends. I have never encountered this. It is -- I
12 often work on my days off. That's my discretion, of course.
13 But if I'm selected, I have to do it. I hope that I have the
14 capacity to come in and be clear-minded in the day, depending
15 on how long I worked the night before.
16 We have been diligently trying to find new staff and
17 we haven't. That was the biggest factor. We had hoped to find
18 some new graduates in the spring, and we haven't.
19 Q. Are you still looking?
20 A. Yes. But the classes are all graduated. There is an
21 extreme shortage.
22 Q. Let me just ask you, based upon your knowledge about your
23 work and duties, can you serve as a juror in this case?
24 A. I would prefer not to have to if I'm working between that
25 and here seven days a week and nights. I have never been under
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1987
46LMSAT3
1 that type of circumstance during my working career. I think
2 that if I work here all day, working at night and working on
3 weekends, it would seem to be bad for one's physical and mental
4 well-being, but I have never confronted that.
5 Q. Since you were here last, have you ever spoken to anyone or
6 has anyone spoken to you about the case or have you looked at
7 or listened to anything about the case?
8 A. No.
9 Q. That includes any conversations here at the courthouse or
10 with any other prospective jurors.
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. Could you step out for just a moment.
13 (Juror not present)
14 THE COURT: I'll listen to the parties, but I'm not
15 inclined to excuse the juror. But I'll certainly listen to the
16 parties on the subject.
17 Hearing nothing -- I'm sorry.
18 MR. TIGAR: I heard him say, your Honor, I hope I have
19 the capacity to be clear-minded after working all night. He
20 has never had an experience like this. Many of us in this
21 room, however, have had experience at being in trials that
22 lasted many months. And it is my invariable practice in trials
23 to take at least one day off a week and to try to limit the
24 amount of work that I do. I only speak of my own ability.
25 Here is a man who now is going to work seven days a week for
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1988
46LMSAT3
1 six months and some nights. We have serious concerns about his
2 ability to be attentive during the time that he is here,
3 particularly given the commute.
4 THE COURT: Government.
5 MR. DEMBER: Your Honor, we do not believe that this
6 juror should be stricken. Many of us work seven days a week on
7 trial and many of us have been and will continue for the next
8 several months. He is a young man. He will be sitting in the
9 courtroom listening. He won't be engaged in physical activity
10 at that time. There only appears to be one or two days of an
11 overlap in terms of his presence here and his presence at his
12 job. At this point, your Honor, we don't believe there is a
13 sufficient record to strike him.
14 THE COURT: Anybody else want to be heard or want me
15 to follow up on other questions with him?
16 MR. TIGAR: No, your Honor. We made our position
17 clear, as clear as we can.
18 THE COURT: Do you think it is a challenge for cause?
19 MR. TIGAR: Yes, your Honor, I believe it is a
20 challenge for cause because of the risk of the juror being
21 attentive.
22 THE COURT: I will follow up.
23 MR. TIGAR: He is working two jobs. I didn't hear him
24 say he is sure he could do it.
25 THE COURT: I'll follow up.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1989
46LMSAT3
1 (Juror present)
2 BY THE COURT:
3 Q. Juror 259, let me follow up with you. You're a very
4 educated and conscientious person, and I'm sure that there have
5 been times in your life, whether in school or the like, that
6 you have to work very hard. As we went over it, it appears if
7 you were chosen as a juror in this case you might end up
8 working, obviously, more than you would otherwise work because
9 you would be here four days and that leaves the weekends when
10 you usually work and you might have to work on one evening,
11 Monday evening, which is in the middle --
12 A. I would work Sunday nights. Last night I worked until 11
13 p.m. I would work Monday nights, an occasional Wednesday night
14 because I don't have every Wednesday off. I just have three
15 out of four, and Thursday nights, which wouldn't affect Friday,
16 of course.
17 Q. I don't know in terms of your work schedule how much time
18 you would end up putting in.
19 The issue is whether if you were chosen as a juror in
20 this case, you physically would be attentive and conscientious
21 in the days and for the hours that you were here as a juror.
22 And you know yourself, you know your job, you know what the
23 requirements of that are. So you have to tell me whether,
24 based upon your knowledge and your abilities if you were chosen
25 as a juror in this case, you would be attentive for the period
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1990
46LMSAT3
1 while you were a juror in this case, and whether based upon
2 your knowledge of yourself you can do that.
3 A. I think the fact that I would be working so many nights so
4 late and weekends, commuting down here from where I live,
5 transportation back and forth, it would probably would
6 affect -- for a few days is one thing. I think you're talking
7 several months for this. I think several months to maintain
8 this rigorous schedule and maintain daily focus and attention
9 on this could be difficult. I have never encountered having to
10 do that.
11 Q. Serving as a juror in a four to six-month trial plainly
12 puts burdens on people. You say it would be difficult. You
13 tell me, do you have -- do you question whether you would be
14 able to be physically attentive and conscientious while serving
15 as a juror in the case?
16 A. I think I would question it, especially as time moved on.
17 Q. Step out. Could you step out.
18 (Juror not present)
19 THE COURT: I'll excuse the juror. Bring back 259.
20 (Juror present)
21 BY THE COURT:
22 Q. Juror 259, I will excuse you. All of your paperwork will
23 be taken care of in the mail. And you may go home now. And
24 could you leave through that door, please, so you don't run
25 into the other jurors.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1991
46LMSAT3
1 A. Thank you.
2 (Juror not present)
3 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 209, 217, 248 have moved up. Shall
4 I call two more?
5 THE COURT: Yes. And whenever 209 is ready to come
6 in.
7 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 221 will be in seat 13.
8 THE COURT: 221?
9 THE DEPUTY CLERK: That's correct. And juror in seat
10 14 will be No. 13.
11 (Juror present)
12 BY THE COURT:
13 Q. Good afternoon, juror 209. Since you were here last, has
14 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
15 this case, or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
16 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
17 impartial juror in this case?
18 A. No, your Honor.
19 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
20 anyone spoken to you about the case or have you looked at or
21 listened to anything about the case? And that includes any
22 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
23 prospective jurors.
24 A. Not at all.
25 Q. Juror 209, could you take seat No. 10 in courtroom 9B.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1992
46LMSAT3
1 A. Thank you.
2 (Juror not present)
3 THE COURT: Call another two names.
4 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Seat No. 15 is juror 79, and seat
5 No. 16 is No. 16.
6 (Juror present)
7 BY THE COURT:
8 Q. Good afternoon, juror 217.
9 Since you were here last, has anything changed
10 concerning your ability to serve as a juror in the case or has
11 anything occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything
12 that may affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror
13 in this case?
14 A. No, it has not.
15 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
16 anyone spoken to you about this case, or have you looked at or
17 listened to anything about the case? And that includes any
18 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
19 prospective jurors.
20 A. No, I have not.
21 Q. Juror 217, can you take seat No. 11 in courtroom 9B.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Thank you.
24 (Juror not present)
25 THE COURT: Mr. Fletcher. Seat No. 16, what juror
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1993
46LMSAT3
1 number, 16?
2 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Correct.
3 Shall I call 17 and 18?
4 THE COURT: Yes.
5 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Seat No. 17 is juror 250, seat No.
6 18 is 38.
7 (Juror present)
8 BY THE COURT:
9 Q. Good afternoon, juror 48.
10 A. Good afternoon.
11 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
12 your ability to serve as a juror in this case or has anything
13 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
14 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
15 case?
16 A. I saw an article in last Tuesday's metro section.
17 Q. Could you speak into the microphone.
18 A. I saw an article in last Tuesday's New York Times metro
19 section and I started to read it before I realized that it was
20 this case. It may affect my ability, yes.
21 Q. What was it that you saw in the article?
22 A. The article was about reporters who are being subpoenaed to
23 testify regarding Ms. Stewart.
24 Q. What is it about the article that would prevent you from
25 being fair and impartial?
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1994
46LMSAT3
1 A. The article went on to state that Ms. Stewart is maybe a
2 sympathizer, Muslim sympathizer.
3 Q. And that would prevent you from being a fair and impartial
4 juror?
5 A. It could.
6 Q. Can you step out just for a moment.
7 (Juror not present)
8 THE COURT: I am going to strike the juror.
9 MR. TIGAR: No objection.
10 THE COURT: Juror 48 we will strike.
11 (Juror present)
12 BY THE COURT:
13 Q. Did I have the right number?
14 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 248.
15 THE COURT: 248. Thank you.
16 Q. Juror 248, I will excuse you. All of your work will be
17 taken care of in the mail, and I would ask you to leave by that
18 door.
19 A. May I ask you a question? What happens to the
20 questionnaire that I filled out?
21 Q. We will keep that.
22 A. Thank you.
23 Q. Thank you.
24 (Juror not present)
25 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Jurors 221, 13, 79, 16, 250, and 38
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1995
46LMSAT3
1 all move up.
2 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, 38 is a no-show, your Honor.
3 THE COURT: Thank you.
4 THE DEPUTY CLERK: We are on 221?
5 THE COURT: Yes.
6 THE DEPUTY CLERK: I'll pull two cards out of the
7 wheel. Seat No. 17 is juror No. 4, and seat No. 18 is No. 268.
8 (Juror present)
9 BY THE COURT:
10 Q. Good afternoon, juror 221. Since you were here last, has
11 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
12 this case, or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
13 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
14 impartial juror in this case?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
17 anyone spoken to you or have you looked at or listened to
18 anything about the case? And that includes any conversations
19 here at the courthouse or any other prospective jurors.
20 A. No.
21 Q. Juror 21, please take seat No. 12 in courtroom 9B.
22 (Juror not present)
23 THE DEPUTY CLERK: I'll pull two more?
24 THE COURT: Why don't we pause. We are ahead by six.
25 (Juror present)
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1996
46LMSAT3
1 BY THE COURT:
2 Q. Good afternoon, juror No. 13. Since you were here last,
3 has anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a
4 juror in this case, or has anything occurred to you or have you
5 seen or heard anything that may affect your ability to be a
6 fair and impartial juror in this case?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
9 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
10 listened to anything about the case? And that includes
11 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
12 prospective jurors.
13 A. No.
14 Q. Juror No. 13, could you take seat No. 13 in courtroom 9B.
15 (Juror not present)
16 (Juror present)
17 BY THE COURT:
18 Q. Good afternoon, juror 79.
19 A. Good afternoon.
20 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
21 your ability to serve as a juror in this case, or has anything
22 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
23 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
24 case?
25 A. No.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1997
46LMSAT3
1 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
2 anyone spoken to you about the case or have you looked at or
3 listened to anything about the case? And that includes any
4 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
5 prospective jurors.
6 A. Yes. I saw an article in the June 12 New York Times about
7 the Al Quada videotape. I read as far as the end of the second
8 paragraph before I realized it pertained to this case, and I
9 stopped reading.
10 Q. It is unlikely that had you gone on in the article that it
11 would have had anything to do with the case. But you are right
12 to stop if you see anything that may have anything to do with
13 the case.
14 Now, is there anything that you read in the article
15 that would prevent you from being a fair and impartial juror in
16 this case?
17 A. No.
18 Q. If you were chosen as a juror in this case, would you
19 decide this case based solely upon the evidence or lack of
20 evidence in court and not based on anything that you may have
21 seen, heard or read outside the courtroom?
22 A. Yes, I would.
23 Q. Can you step out for a moment.
24 (Juror not present)
25 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, I think the June 12 article
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1998
46LMSAT3
1 was an article reporting on your Honor's decision deciding the
2 in limine motions. I think when you said to him, if you have
3 read further it wouldn't involve this case, I think that would
4 have been mistaken.
5 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, by probing more deeply about
6 what he read, I respectfully suggest would make -- may trigger
7 a fuse of expressions that are not helpful. We would suggest
8 not asking any others. He said he could be fair and impartial
9 and not affect him.
10 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, to be fair, I think we
11 should follow up as with all other jurors who have said that he
12 read articles about this case.
13 THE COURT: I'll ask him what he recalls and make sure
14 that there is nothing about that that would affect his ability
15 to be fair and impartial. I do usually ask what they recall
16 seeing.
17 MR. MORVILLO: That's all the government is asking,
18 your Honor.
19 MR. TIGAR: I was not attempting to criticize. I just
20 made an observation.
21 THE COURT: I didn't take it as a criticism.
22 Is this juror 13 or are we on 79?
23 MR. DEMBER: 79, your Honor.
24 (Juror present)
25 BY THE COURT:
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
1999
46LMSAT3
1 Q. Juror 79, is there anything that you saw in the article
2 that you started to read that would prevent you from being a
3 fair and impartial juror in this case?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Do you recall what it was that you saw?
6 A. Yes. The first paragraph contained the name of Lynne
7 Stewart. It didn't register with me until the last sentence of
8 the second paragraph indicating that she was the attorney for
9 Sheikh Rahman, that she had been the attorney for Sheikh
10 Rahman.
11 Q. Anything else that you recall about the article?
12 A. No.
13 Q. If you were chosen as a juror in this case, would you
14 decide this case based solely upon the evidence or lack of
15 evidence in this case and not based upon anything you saw,
16 heard, or read?
17 A. Yes, I would.
18 Q. And will you continue to follow my instructions that if you
19 see or hear anything out there, you will simply turn away?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Thank you, juror 679. Could you take seat No. 14 in
22 courtroom 9B.
23 (Juror not present)
24 (Continued on next page)
25
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
2000
646LLSAT4
1 THE COURT: I take it no one wanted me to inquire
2 further?
3 MR. MORVILLO: That's correct, your Honor.
4 MR. TIGAR: Yes, your Honor.
5 THE COURT: This should be Juror 16.
6 (Juror present)
7 BY THE COURT:
8 Q. Good afternoon, Juror 16. Since you were here last, has
9 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
10 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
11 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
12 impartial juror in this case?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
15 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
16 listened to anything about the case, and that includes any
17 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
18 prospective jurors?
19 A. Just the same as I told you last time, you know, people ask
20 me what case --
21 Q. Just use the microphone.
22 A. Just people asking what case it was, but I didn't say. And
23 I saw two stories which I didn't read: One in a newspaper and
24 one on the wires about this case.
25 Q. Okay. What story did you see in the newspaper?
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
2001
646LLSAT4
1 A. The one in the newspaper, it had a headline about a
2 reporter being subpoenaed. I wasn't aware it was this trial,
3 so I began reading it. When I realized it was this trial, I
4 stopped reading it.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. And the second story was on the wires. And I just saw the
7 headline and went past it.
8 Q. Okay. What was the headline?
9 A. I don't remember. Something about terror. It must have
10 said terror trial. It was something that indicated....
11 Q. Do you recall what, if anything, you read in the newspaper
12 about the issue of reporters?
13 A. The subpoena? All that I read was that a reporter from --
14 named Patty Furtado had been subpoenaed. And when I read that,
15 I stopped reading it.
16 Q. Is there anything you've seen or heard that would prevent
17 you from being a fair and impartial juror in this case?
18 A. I don't think so, no.
19 Q. And, I mean, I know we went over this before, and if you
20 were chosen as a juror in this case, you would have to decide
21 this case based solely upon the evidence or lack of evidence in
22 the case, and not based upon anything you've seen, heard or
23 read before.
24 A. Right.
25 Q. And would you do that?
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
2002
646LLSAT4
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And can you do that?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. If you were chosen as a juror, would you be a fair and
5 impartial juror and decide the case based solely upon the
6 evidence or lack of evidence in the courtroom?
7 A. Yes, I think so.
8 Q. People speak differently. When you say you "think so",
9 does that mean yes? Do you have any questions about that?
10 A. No, no. I think I would be fair.
11 Q. Under your oath as a juror, if you were chosen as a juror
12 in this case, would you listen to the evidence and decide the
13 case based solely upon the evidence or lack of evidence and my
14 instructions on the law?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. I'll ask you to step out for just a moment.
17 (Juror absent)
18 THE COURT: I'll ask juror Number 250 to take seat
19 Number 16. Was that Juror Number 250?
20 MR. DEMBER: No, it was 16, your Honor.
21 THE COURT: I'm sorry, I'm ahead of myself. All
22 right. Juror 16 takes seat Number 15, right?
23 MR. DEMBER: Correct, your Honor.
24 MS. SHELLOW-LAVINE: Yes, your Honor.
25 (Juror present)
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
2003
646LLSAT4
1 THE COURT: All right. Juror Number 16, will you take
2 seat Number 15 in Courtroom 9B?
3 JUROR: Okay.
4 (Juror absent)
5 DEPUTY CLERK: Shall I pull two other cards?
6 THE COURT: Yes.
7 DEPUTY CLERK: Seat Number 19 will be Juror 190. And
8 seat Number 20 will be 364.
9 THE COURT: 64?
10 DEPUTY CLERK: 364.
11 THE COURT: Thank you.
12 (Juror present)
13 BY THE COURT:
14 Q. Hi.
15 A. Hello.
16 Q. Good afternoon, Juror 250. Since you were here last, has
17 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
18 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
19 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
20 impartial juror in this case?
21 A. Nothing's happened.
22 Q. Okay. Could you just use the microphone?
23 And since you were here last, have you spoken to
24 anyone or has anyone spoken to you about this case, or have you
25 looked at or listened to anything about the case, and that
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
2004
646LLSAT4
1 includes any conversations here at the courthouse or with any
2 other prospective jurors?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Juror 250, could you take seat Number 16 in Courtroom 9B?
5 Thank you.
6 (Juror absent)
7 DEPUTY CLERK: Let the record reflect 190 is one of
8 the no-shows, and 364 will be now seat Number 19.
9 MR. TIGAR: I didn't hear that.
10 DEPUTY CLERK: Let the record reflect that 190 was one
11 of the no-shows, and 364 will move up to Seat 19.
12 MR. TIGAR: Thank you.
13 DEPUTY CLERK: I'll call one more. Number 20 is
14 Number 98.
15 (Juror present)
16 BY THE COURT:
17 Q. Good afternoon, Juror Number 4. Since you were here last,
18 has anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a
19 juror in this case or has anything occurred to you or have you
20 seen or heard anything that may affect your ability to be a
21 fair and impartial juror in this case?
22 A. Nothing.
23 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
24 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
25 listened to anything about the case, and that includes any
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
2005
646LLSAT4
1 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
2 prospective jurors?
3 A. Nothing.
4 Q. All right. Juror Number 4, can you take seat Number 17 in
5 Courtroom 9B? Thank you.
6 A. Okay.
7 (Juror absent)
8 THE COURT: Mr. Fletcher?
9 DEPUTY CLERK: Two more cards. Number 21 is
10 Juror 252.
11 THE COURT: 252.
12 DEPUTY CLERK: That's correct. And Number 22 is 282.
13 (Juror present)
14 BY THE COURT:
15 Q. Good afternoon, Juror 268. Since you were here last, has
16 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
17 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
18 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
19 impartial juror in this case?
20 A. Nothing regarding the case. But I'm most likely going to
21 be approved for a surgery that's upcoming in September, which I
22 think may interfere with my ability to serve, if the case runs
23 four to six months.
24 Q. I'm sorry, you're going to have surgery?
25 A. Right. And it's going to be in September. And I know that
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
2006
646LLSAT4
1 you had said earlier on the first day that it would run between
2 four and six months, the case, or the trial.
3 Q. Right. And how long will you be out for the surgery?
4 A. Six to eight weeks.
5 Q. Okay. Can you step out just for a moment?
6 A. Yeah.
7 (Juror absent)
8 MR. DEMBER: Your Honor, the government believes that
9 the juror should be excused.
10 MR. RUHNKE: We agree.
11 THE COURT: All right. I'll excuse Juror 268. Bring
12 back Juror 268.
13 (Juror present)
14 BY THE COURT:
15 THE COURT: Juror 268, I will excuse you. You can go
16 home now. All of the paperwork will be taken care of in the
17 mail. And if you would please use that door, please.
18 (Juror 268 exits the courtroom)
19 DEPUTY CLERK: 98 and 252 will move up one, and I'll
20 call two more cards out of the wheel.
21 The person that will be in seat Number 22 is 154. And
22 the person who will be in seat Number 23 is 417. And I'll
23 bring in 364.
24 (Juror present)
25 BY THE COURT:
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
2007
646LLSAT4
1 Q. Hi, Juror 364. Since you were here last, has anything
2 changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in this
3 case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or heard
4 anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
5 impartial juror in this case?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
8 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
9 listened to anything about the case, and that includes
10 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
11 prospective jurors?
12 A. No.
13 Q. All right. Juror 364, could you take seat Number 18 in
14 Courtroom 9B? Thank you.
15 (Juror absent)
16 DEPUTY CLERK: I'll call one more card. Seat
17 Number 24 will be 267. And Number 98 should be coming in.
18 (Juror present)
19 BY THE COURT:
20 Q. Hi. Good afternoon, juror Number 98. Since you were here
21 last, has anything changed concerning your ability to serve as
22 a juror in this case or has anything occurred to you or have
23 you seen or heard anything that may affect your ability to be a
24 fair and impartial juror in this case?
25 A. As far as my job, yes.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
2008
646LLSAT4
1 Q. What's changed?
2 A. Short of staff.
3 Q. Could you speak into the microphone?
4 A. Pick it up?
5 Q. Yes, the microphone is right there in front of you. It's a
6 handheld. There you go.
7 A. As far as my job, we're short of staff.
8 DEPUTY CLERK: There's a switch on the bottom.
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. Hi.
11 A. Hi.
12 Q. What's changed with respect to your job?
13 A. I have a couple of duties that I was asked of as far as the
14 children that I work with.
15 Q. You work for the City?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And you deal with children?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Social services work?
20 A. No, it's an after-school program.
21 Q. After school, right. But if you were chosen as a juror in
22 this case, the city has -- while you've been asked to do those
23 duties, others could do those duties, right?
24 A. Well, like I said, we're short of staff. But I guess they
25 would have to.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
2009
646LLSAT4
1 Q. Just speak into the microphone.
2 A. I know.
3 Q. I appreciate your bringing that to my attention. Is there
4 anything that's occurred or have you seen or heard anything
5 that would affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror
6 in this case?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
9 anyone spoken to you or have you looked at or listened to
10 anything about the case, and that includes conversations here
11 at the courthouse or with any other prospective jurors?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Could you step out for a moment?
14 (Juror absent)
15 THE COURT: I'll ask Juror Number 98 to take seat
16 Number 19. All right. Bring back Juror 98.
17 (Juror present)
18 THE COURT: Hi. Juror 98, I'll ask you to take seat
19 Number 19 in Courtroom 9B. Seat Number 19.
20 JUROR: Thank you.
21 THE COURT: Thank you.
22 (Juror absent)
23 (Juror present)
24 BY THE COURT:
25 Q. Good afternoon, Juror 252. Since you were here last, has
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
2010
646LLSAT4
1 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
2 this case, or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
3 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
4 impartial juror in this case?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
7 any one spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
8 listened to anything about the case, and that includes
9 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
10 prospective jurors?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Thank you, Juror 252. I'll ask you to take seat Number 20
13 in Courtroom 9B.
14 (Juror absent)
15 (Juror present)
16 BY THE COURT:
17 Q. Hi.
18 A. How are you?
19 Q. Good afternoon, Juror 282. Since you were here last, has
20 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
21 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
22 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
23 impartial juror in this case?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
2011
646LLSAT4
1 anyone spoken to you about the case, about this case, or have
2 you looked at or listened to anything about the case, and that
3 includes any conversations here at the courthouse or with any
4 other prospective jurors?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Okay. Juror 282, I'll ask you to take seat Number 21 in
7 Courtroom 9B.
8 A. Now?
9 Q. Yes. Seat number 21 in Courtroom 9B.
10 A. Okay.
11 Q. And one of the marshals will show you.
12 A. Thank you.
13 (Juror absent)
14 THE COURT: I asked Mr. Fletcher to stop pulling the
15 numbers after Juror 24 because -- after seat Number 24 because
16 we're going to break for lunch with the jurors. I had ordered
17 a light lunch for 18 jurors, but we didn't go as quickly as I
18 had expected, so it seems to me I should bring all of the
19 jurors back in, say we're going to take a 45-minute lunch
20 break, remind them not to talk about the case at all, return
21 after 45 minutes to either Courtroom 9A or 9B, and if they're
22 in Courtroom 9B, take their same seats.
23 Is that satisfactory with everyone?
24 And I'll remind them again not to talk about the case.
25 And I'll ask them to be brought in this way and leave that way.
SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C.
(212) 805-0300
2012
646LLSAT4
1 (Juror present)
2 BY THE COURT:
3 Q. Good afternoon, Juror 154. Since you were here last, has
4 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
5 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
6 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
7 impartial juror in this case?
8 A. I thought about it since I talked to you last, and you said
9 a question that maybe if there are, you know, witnesses of --
10 that might be the same type of job like I had, would I be
11 impartial, like I'm a retired correction officer, if there was
12 witnesses in that type of job, would I be, you know -- like I
13 figure, I was thinking like our training, and that we see
14 things differently, so I was thinking, I might not be -- I
15 might be impartial because of what we seen and done, and I just
16 thought about it. And I might not be fair.
17 Q. Okay, can you step out for a moment?
18 A. Okay.
19 (Juror absent)
20 THE COURT: I'll strike the juror.
21 MR. DEMBER: If I may, your Honor, we have no
22 intention at this point of calling any federal corrections
23 officers. We are calling officials from the Bureau of Prisons,
24 but no correctional officers. I don't know if that will make a
25 difference with this particular juror, but there is a
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1 distinction. And at the moment, at least, your Honor, we're
2 only intending to call a person out of the legal department at
3 one prison facility; and out of that same prison facility, a
4 person who is an administrator whose primary responsibility is
5 supervising medical care, so it's not a situation where we're
6 going to call the person who has the kind of position that this
7 juror had as a New York City corrections officer.
8 MR. TIGAR: If your Honor please --
9 THE COURT: Yes.
10 MR. TIGAR: Referring to Jenks material we received,
11 Bates Number 3516-EE, your Honor, the government has tendered
12 Jenks material that suggests that the credibility of prison
13 guards will be very much an issue in this case.
14 MR. MORVILLO: I have no idea what Mr. Tigar is
15 talking about.
16 THE COURT: I'm inclined to strike the juror. And
17 it's pretty clear to me that if I spent the time with the juror
18 going over more of the specific allegations with the case with
19 respect to the relationship between the guards and some of the
20 conversations relating to the guards, etc., that it would
21 strike other notes with the juror who just brought this to our
22 attention. And it is something that's bothering the juror, so
23 I would be inclined to strike the juror.
24 If you want me to pursue it further, I will. But I
25 really don't think it's necessary at this point.
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1 MR. DEMBER: Your Honor, I would ask you to inquire
2 further of this juror.
3 THE COURT: All right.
4 (Juror present)
5 BY THE COURT:
6 Q. Hi, Juror 154. Thank you. There may be a witnesses from
7 the Bureau of Prisons. It's not clear whether that person
8 would be a guard as opposed to someone who has more
9 administrative functions at the Bureau of Prisons. Would you
10 have feelings about administrative officials with the Bureau of
11 Prisons?
12 A. Like -- because the thing is, like, they go up through the
13 ranks also. So they usually have all the trainings, basically
14 the same way as we go up. So that's why I thought about, maybe
15 it's just, we're all the same, you know, so, I don't know --
16 you know, I just thought about it, and I just wanted to let you
17 know. Which I might, you know, I might not be able to do it.
18 Maybe I have one set -- type of, already set thinking. And,
19 you know, that's why I just wanted to let you know.
20 Q. Oh, yes, I appreciate -- I very much appreciate your --
21 A. Because even if it's administrative, they still go up
22 through the ranks. They still get the same training. And
23 they're the ones that instruct us, guys in that level. So
24 that's all I said, you know.
25 Q. No, I appreciated that. Would you tend to credit their
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1 testimony more?
2 A. I think I would. Because in our eyes it's a different --
3 you know, we look for different things. And we observe
4 different things. So maybe they might say something that I
5 might agree with.
6 Q. Okay. Would you step out for a moment?
7 (Juror absent)
8 THE COURT: I'll strike Juror 154. All right? No
9 objection? Bring 154 back in.
10 (Juror present)
11 THE COURT: Thank you, Juror 154. I will excuse you.
12 And all your paperwork will be taken care of through the mail
13 so that you can go home now. And if you would leave by that
14 front door, please.
15 JUROR: That door?
16 THE COURT: Yes. Thank you.
17 JUROR: Thank you.
18 THE COURT: And remember not to talk to any of the
19 other prospective jurors if anybody should be leaving at the
20 same time.
21 JUROR: No problem.
22 (Juror absent)
23 DEPUTY CLERK: 417 and 267 have moved up one.
24 (Juror present)
25 BY THE COURT:
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1 Q. Good afternoon, Juror 417. Since you were here last, has
2 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
3 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
4 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
5 impartial juror in this case?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
8 anyone spoken to you about this case, or have you looked at or
9 listened to anything about the case, and that includes
10 conversations here at the courthouse or with any of the
11 prospective jurors?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Juror 417, you need to take seat Number 22 in Courtroom 9B.
14 Thank you.
15 (Juror absent)
16 (Juror present)
17 BY THE COURT:
18 Q. Good afternoon, Juror 267. Since you were here last, has
19 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
20 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
21 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
22 impartial juror in this case?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken in anyone or has
25 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
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1 listened to anything about the case, and that includes any
2 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
3 prospective jurors?
4 A. No.
5 Q. All right. Juror 267, can you take seat number 23 in
6 Courtroom 9B?
7 A. Okay.
8 (Juror absent)
9 THE COURT: As I said, we'll bring all of the jurors
10 back and we'll break for lunch for 45 minutes, and -- Mr. Grate
11 had told me before that there were two additional jurors who
12 had shown up. I don't know if any others have shown up, but
13 those will be kept separately, and we should bring back all of
14 the jurors in 9A, 9B and even the other jurors who are just
15 waiting in some other room.
16 (Jury venire enters the courtroom)
17 THE COURT: Please be seated, all. Ladies and
18 gentlemen, we're going to break for lunch for 45 minutes. So
19 please be back at 20 after 2:00. Please remember to be prompt
20 in returning because we really can't begin without all of you
21 being here, and it is obviously a large group. When you
22 return, return to the same courtrooms from which you came.
23 Some of the jurors are in courtroom 9A; some of you are seated
24 in individual seats in 9B. Those of you who are seated in the
25 individual seats in 9B, remember to take your same seats
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1 because we're following that numbering system.
2 When we break for lunch, please, please, as I continue
3 to tell you, do not talk about this case or anything to do with
4 it. Don't talk among your selves about the case or anything to
5 do with it. Don't talk to any of the parties or lawyers about
6 the case. If you should find yourself for some reason in the
7 same area as one of the participants in the case, I've asked
8 them simply to walk away, so don't hold it against them,
9 they're not being impolite, they're simply following my
10 instructions because it's so important that the jurors remain
11 separate, that they not talk about the case at all. That's why
12 I continually give those instructions to the jurors.
13 It's also very important, as I will continually
14 instruct the jurors, to keep an open mind until those of you
15 who are selected as jurors have heard all of the evidence, I've
16 instructed you on the law, and you've gone to the jury room to
17 begin your deliberations. Fairness and justice requires that
18 you do that.
19 With that, have a very good lunch and please be back
20 by 20 minutes after 2:00, reporting to either Courtroom 9A or
21 Courtroom 9B. And if you would leave by those doors at the
22 back of the courtroom.
23 (Jury venire exits the courtroom)
24 THE COURT: I'd ask everyone else please to stay in
25 the courtroom until the jurors have left.
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1 And Mr. Fletcher will advise you when the jurors have
2 left the floor so that everyone else can then leave without
3 passing the jurors.
4 Meanwhile, you can all be seated.
5 (Off the record)
6 THE COURT: There were two jurors who showed up late,
7 and who were supposed to be in Courtroom 6B waiting, but the
8 security officers didn't find them in Courtroom 6B, so I'm not
9 sure where those two are.
10 There is a third juror who just showed up who should
11 have been here this morning, and that juror will also be asked
12 to go to courtroom 6B at 2:15.
13 Mr. Fletcher and the Court security officers will tell
14 you whether all of the jurors have left the floor. So that you
15 can leave for lunch. And the Court security officers will have
16 to be downstairs after lunch advising the jurors that it's --
17 they should take the other set of elevators because that will
18 take them to Courtrooms 9A and 9B as opposed to that set of
19 elevators.
20 I would suggest that you return by -- as early as
21 possible so that you can avoid the jurors. I know that cuts
22 into your lunch hour. I'm sorry for that. But if you could
23 limit your lunch to about 20 minutes or 25 minutes. The Court
24 security officers should be able to keep the jurors out of that
25 set of elevators outside this courtroom so that you can use
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1 that set and the jurors will use the other set which takes them
2 up to courtrooms 9A and 9B.
3 C.S. OFFICER: Yes, your Honor.
4 THE COURT: Anything else? Have a good lunch.
5 (Luncheon recess)
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 AFTERNOON SESSION
2 2:45 p.m.
3 THE COURT: All of the jurors have returned to 9B. I
4 am told that there are, I think, 42 jurors waiting in 9A, which
5 is just about right. There may be one or two stragglers, but
6 we can start. There are three jurors who showed up late this
7 morning and who are being kept. And I'm told that one of the
8 no-shows this morning was juror 31, who called in to say that
9 that juror had knee surgery.
10 Mr. Fletcher, will you call the next three numbers.
11 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Next number, seat 24, is 117. The
12 next, which is seat 25, is 158. The next one, 26, is 311. It
13 is 117, 158, 311.
14 THE COURT: While we are waiting, why don't you call
15 some more.
16 THE DEPUTY CLERK: No. 27 is 349.
17 THE COURT: 349?
18 THE DEPUTY CLERK: That's correct. No. 28 is 351, No.
19 29 is 347, and No. 30 is 126.
20 THE COURT: 347 is not here.
21 THE DEPUTY CLERK: 126 will move up to seat 29 and I
22 will call another one. Juror No. 30 is 304, who is not here.
23 THE COURT: You know what, 304 did show up in the
24 first group.
25 THE DEPUTY CLERK: It was in the first group.
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1 (Juror present)
2 BY THE COURT:
3 Q. Good afternoon, juror 117. Since you were here last, has
4 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
5 this case, or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
6 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
7 impartial juror in this case?
8 A. Well, at the moment I'm undergoing therapy three times a
9 week, physical therapy, to prevent me from having an operation
10 on my hand. Mondays, Wednesday, and Fridays, 3:45 and 4:00.
11 Q. Could you use the microphone.
12 A. Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, 3:45 and 4:00, those
13 times.
14 Q. Could you arrange to do the physical therapy a little
15 later? Because we break at 4:30.
16 A. That's the latest time because they were going according to
17 my office hours, so I have to take two and a half hours from
18 work in order to get there. 4:00 is the latest time, from
19 workmens compensation.
20 Q. Of course, if you were a juror in this case you wouldn't be
21 working at your regular job while you were here.
22 A. Right. Because I still need the therapy.
23 Q. They also do physical therapy early in the morning.
24 A. I don't know what their morning hours are.
25 Q. Could you speak into the microphone.
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1 A. I don't know what their morning hours are. That's why I
2 took the evening, at late as possible. I work 8 to 4, so I
3 have to take it as late as possible.
4 Q. How many hours do you have to go to physical therapy each
5 time?
6 A. It is an hour. An hour, 45 minutes to an hour.
7 Q. Usually, you can get physical therapy early in the morning.
8 We begin at 9:30 and -- there are various places to get
9 physical therapy beginning even at 7 in the morning.
10 A. This is where workmens compensation sent me. This is not
11 through me.
12 Q. Could you pass it up to Mr. Fletcher?
13 A. Sure.
14 And I called today to let them know that I'm still
15 here, so they have to make another appointment for me.
16 Q. Let me pass this back to you. Can you step out for a
17 moment?
18 A. Sure.
19 (Juror not present)
20 THE COURT: The appointment schedule that the juror
21 showed me includes what I think is the juror's name, so she
22 showed it to me. And it includes physical therapy appointments
23 late in the day, 4, 4:15. I am prepared to excuse the juror.
24 MR. DEMBER: We have no objection, your Honor.
25 MR. RUHNKE: We agree, your Honor.
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1 (Juror present)
2 BY THE COURT:
3 Q. Juror 117, I'll excuse you. You can go home. All of your
4 paperwork will be taken care of through the mail.
5 And if you would go out that way. Thank you.
6 (Juror not present)
7 THE DEPUTY CLERK: I'll move everybody up. 158 will
8 be 11. 349, 351, 126, and 304 are moved up. And I will get
9 juror 158.
10 (Juror present)
11 BY THE COURT:
12 Q. Good afternoon, juror 158. Since you were here last, has
13 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
14 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
15 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
16 impartial juror in this case?
17 A. Nothing to the second question. For the first question, I
18 am in search of employment but have not at this moment. The
19 question arises if I did find a job and people wanted to hire
20 me -- I'm not in that situation yet.
21 Q. And I believe we explored that last time. And if you were
22 chosen as a juror in this case it would obviously conflict with
23 a new job and you told me that you would be prepared to serve
24 as a juror in this case?
25 A. Yes, if required.
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1 Q. And since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or
2 has anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at
3 or listened to anything about the case? And that includes any
4 conversations at the courthouse or with any other prospective
5 jurors.
6 A. No.
7 Q. Juror 158, could you just step out for a moment.
8 A. Um-hum.
9 (Juror not present)
10 THE COURT: I'll ask juror 158 to take seat No. 24.
11 MR. TIGAR: Yes, your Honor.
12 THE COURT: Bring back juror 158.
13 (Juror present)
14 BY THE COURT:
15 Q. Juror 158, please take seat No. 24 in courtroom 9B.
16 A. Thank you.
17 (Juror not present)
18 (Juror present)
19 BY THE COURT:
20 Q. Good afternoon, juror 311.
21 A. Good afternoon.
22 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
23 your ability to serve as a juror in this case or has anything
24 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
25 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
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1 case?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
4 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
5 listened to anything about the case? And that includes
6 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
7 prospective jurors.
8 A. No.
9 Q. Juror 311, could you take seat No. 25 in courtroom 9B, seat
10 No. 25. Thank you.
11 (Juror not present)
12 (Juror present)
13 BY THE COURT:
14 Q. Good afternoon, juror 349. Since you were here last, has
15 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
16 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
17 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
18 impartial juror in this case?
19 A. No, it hasn't.
20 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
21 anyone spoken to you about the case, this case, or have you
22 looked at or listened to anything about the case? And that
23 includes conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
24 prospective jurors.
25 A. No, I haven't.
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1 Q. Juror 349, could you take seat No. 26 in courtroom 9B, seat
2 No. 26. Thank you.
3 (Juror not present)
4 (Juror present)
5 BY THE COURT:
6 Q. Good afternoon, juror 351.
7 A. Good afternoon.
8 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
9 your ability to serve as a juror in this case, or has anything
10 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
11 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
12 case?
13 A. No, sir.
14 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
15 anyone spoken to you about this case, or have you looked at or
16 listened to anything about this case? And that includes
17 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
18 prospective jurors.
19 A. No.
20 Q. Juror 351, please take seat No. 27 in courtroom 9B, seat
21 No. 27. Thank you.
22 A. Thank you.
23 (Juror not present)
24 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Next juror will be 345.
25 THE COURT: 126.
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1 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Sorry, your Honor.
2 THE COURT: 126, 304.
3 THE DEPUTY CLERK: I'm sorry. I'll put her card out
4 of the wheel.
5 THE COURT: For seat 30, 345?
6 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Yes, your Honor.
7 (Juror present)
8 BY THE COURT:
9 Q. Good afternoon, juror 126.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
12 your ability to serve as a juror in this case or has anything
13 occurred to you -- have you seen or heard anything that may
14 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
15 case?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
18 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
19 listened to anything about the case? And that includes
20 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
21 prospective jurors.
22 A. No, sir.
23 Q. Juror 126, please take seat No. 28 in courtroom 9B, seat
24 No. 28. Thank you.
25 (Juror not present)
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1 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Seat No. 31 is No. 319. Seat No.
2 32 is No. 292.
3 THE COURT: 292?
4 THE DEPUTY CLERK: That's correct.
5 (Juror present)
6 BY THE COURT:
7 Q. Good afternoon, juror 304. Since you were here last, has
8 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
9 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
10 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
11 impartial juror in this case?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
14 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
15 listened to anything about this case? And that includes
16 conversations here in the courthouse or with any other
17 prospective jurors.
18 A. No.
19 Q. Juror 304, please take seat No. 29 in courtroom 9B. Seat
20 No. 29. Thank you.
21 (Juror not present)
22 (Juror present)
23 BY THE COURT:
24 Q. Good afternoon, juror 345. Since you were here last, has
25 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
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1 this case, or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
2 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
3 impartial juror in this case?
4 A. No, sir.
5 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
6 anyone spoken to you about this case, or have you looked at or
7 listened to anything about the case? And that includes
8 conversations here in the courthouse or with any other
9 prospective jurors.
10 A. No, sir.
11 Q. Juror 345, please take seat No. 30, seat No. 30, in
12 courtroom 9B. Thank you.
13 (Juror not present)
14 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Seat No. 33 will be 156. Seat No.
15 34 is No. 39.
16 THE COURT: You want to call some more while we are
17 waiting.
18 THE DEPUTY CLERK: No. 35 is 146.
19 (Juror present)
20 BY THE COURT:
21 Q. Good afternoon, juror 319.
22 A. Good afternoon.
23 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
24 your ability to serve as a juror in this case or has anything
25 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
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1 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
2 case?
3 A. Two scheduling issues have arisen that will make it
4 difficult for me to be a juror.
5 First is that --
6 Q. Will you speak into the microphone?
7 A. I have two children: One, three and a half; one, one, and
8 our children's nanny has told us that she needs to go to
9 Barbados for two weeks in August.
10 The other thing, we got the schedule for my -- we got
11 the schedule for my daughter's preschool for September and
12 there is a two-week phasing-in period during which a parent is
13 expected to be available from 9 to 1. It is going to be very
14 difficult for my husband to bear the brunt of both of those
15 activities in quick succession: First, the Barbados and lack
16 of child care, and then the phasing in if I'm on the jury.
17 Q. I'm attentive to the issues of child care and active child
18 care. The question is whether you can make any other
19 arrangements or whether your child care responsibilities are
20 such that you can't make any other reasonable arrangements to
21 take care of the child care and to be a juror.
22 A. The problem is that it would require my husband to take
23 nearly a month off from work, the two two-week periods. We are
24 trying to find child care for that period when our nanny is
25 going to be in Barbados because it is obviously difficult for
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1 both of us to take time off work, even sharing it. I can't say
2 now that there are other possible arrangements.
3 Q. Can you step out for a moment.
4 (Juror not present)
5 THE COURT: I'm prepared to excuse the juror.
6 MR. TIGAR: May we have a moment, Judge?
7 MR. RUHNKE: It just seems that given what her
8 employment is, what her husband's employment is and what's
9 likely to be a combined income that is probably quite
10 substantial, two weeks is not insurmountable. Mr. Dember says
11 he has things that can be easily handled. We don't think it is
12 a legitimate hardship at this point. Obviously, it is your
13 Honor's call.
14 THE COURT: It is not easy to get child care that you
15 are comfortable with for your child. It is not a question of
16 money or income. It is a question of getting a person that is
17 prepared to deal with the child. That's my issue.
18 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, we consent.
19 MR. DEMBER: We do too, your Honor.
20 MR. RUHNKE: Your Honor, we consent as well, you're
21 right. It is not just income.
22 THE COURT: Juror 319. Please bring back juror 319.
23 (Juror present)
24 BY THE COURT:
25 Q. Juror 319, we will excuse you. Your paperwork will be
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1 taken care of in the mail and you can go home now. Please exit
2 through that door.
3 A. Thank you.
4 (Juror not present)
5 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Moving up will be 192, 156, 39, and
6 146. I will call four more numbers. Seat 35 is No. 368.
7 THE COURT: I'm sorry?
8 THE DEPUTY CLERK: No. 35 is 368. Seat No. 36 is 203.
9 Your Honor, I believe 368 was a no-show.
10 THE COURT: Right. That's 203.
11 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Seat 35 will be 203. Seat 36 will
12 be 199. Seat 37 will be 240.
13 THE COURT: Why don't we pause.
14 THE DEPUTY CLERK: I'm calling 292.
15 (Juror present)
16 BY THE COURT:
17 Q. Good afternoon, juror 292. Since you were here last, has
18 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
19 this case, or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
20 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
21 impartial juror in this case?
22 A. No, your Honor.
23 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
24 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
25 listened to anything about this case? And that includes any
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1 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
2 prospective jurors.
3 A. No.
4 Q. Juror 292, could you take seat No. 31 in courtroom 9B, seat
5 No. 31.
6 A. Thank you.
7 (Juror not present)
8 (Juror present)
9 BY THE COURT:
10 Q. Good afternoon, juror 156. Since you were here last, has
11 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
12 this case, or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
13 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
14 impartial juror in this case?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
17 anyone spoken to you about this case, or have you looked at or
18 listened to anything about the case? And that includes
19 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
20 prospective jurors.
21 A. No.
22 Q. Juror 156, could you take seat No. 32 in courtroom 9B, seat
23 No. 32. Thank you.
24 A. Go there now?
25 Q. The marshal will show you how to get there.
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1 (Juror not present)
2 THE COURT: Mr. Fletcher thought he saw a gesture from
3 one of the paralegals. Was there any gesture?
4 MS. BAKER: I'm sorry, Judge. Were you directing that
5 question to us? These are law student interns who work in our
6 office, which is why we were a little confused. None of us
7 were aware -- none of us at counsel table were aware of
8 anything like that and the interns indicated they did not
9 consciously make any kind of movement.
10 MS. SHELLOW-LAVINE: What was the gesture?
11 (Juror present)
12 BY THE COURT:
13 Q. Good afternoon, juror 39.
14 Juror 39, since you were here last, has anything
15 changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in this
16 case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or heard
17 anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
18 impartial juror in this case?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
21 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
22 listened to anything about the case? And that includes any
23 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
24 prospective jurors.
25 A. No.
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1 Q. Thank you, juror 39. Could you take seat No. 33.
2 A. 33?
3 Q. 33 in courtroom 9B, seat No. 33 in courtroom 9B.
4 (Juror not present)
5 (Juror present)
6 BY THE COURT:
7 Q. Good afternoon, juror 146.
8 A. Good afternoon.
9 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
10 your ability to serve as a juror in this case, or has anything
11 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
12 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
13 case?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
16 anyone spoken to you about this case, or have you looked at or
17 listened to anything about the case? And that includes any
18 conversations here in the courthouse or with any other
19 prospective jurors.
20 A. No.
21 Q. Juror 146, please take seat No. 34 in courtroom 9B, seat
22 No. 34. Thank you.
23 (Juror not present)
24 THE COURT: Do we have a chance to pull a couple more.
25 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Seat 38 will be juror 24. Seat 29
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1 is 330.
2 (Juror present)
3 BY THE COURT:
4 Q. Good afternoon, juror 203.
5 A. Hi.
6 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
7 your ability to serve as a juror in this case or has anything
8 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
9 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
10 case?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
13 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
14 listened to anything about this case? And that includes
15 conversations here in the courthouse or with any other
16 prospective jurors.
17 A. No.
18 Q. Juror 203, could you take seat No. 35 in courtroom 9B, seat
19 No. 35, courtroom 9B. Thank you.
20 (Juror not present)
21 (Juror present)
22 BY THE COURT:
23 Q. Good afternoon, juror 199. Since you were here last, has
24 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
25 this case, or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
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1 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
2 impartial juror in this case?
3 A. No, sir.
4 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
5 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
6 listened to anything about this case? And that includes
7 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
8 prospective jurors.
9 A. No.
10 Q. Juror 199, could you take seat No. 36 in courtroom 9B.
11 A. Okay.
12 Q. Thank you.
13 A. Thank you.
14 (Juror not present)
15 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Seat No. 40 will be 331. Seat No.
16 41 is 180. Seat No. 42 is 82.
17 (Juror present)
18 BY THE COURT:
19 Q. Good afternoon, juror 240.
20 A. Good afternoon.
21 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
22 your ability to serve as a juror in this case or has anything
23 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
24 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
25 case?
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1 A. No.
2 Q. No?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
5 anyone spoken to you about this case, or have you looked at or
6 listened to anything about this case? And that includes any
7 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
8 prospective juror or jurors.
9 A. No.
10 Q. Juror 240, could you take seat No. 37 in courtroom 9B, seat
11 No. 37.
12 A. Thank you.
13 Q. Thank you.
14 (Juror not present)
15 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, we missed the numbers of the
16 last set of jurors.
17 THE COURT: 24, 330, 331, 180, and 82.
18 MS. BAKER: Thank you.
19 (Juror present)
20 BY THE COURT:
21 Q. Good afternoon, juror 24. Since you were here last, has
22 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
23 this case or has anything occurred to you, or have you seen or
24 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
25 impartial juror in this case?
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1 A. No.
2 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
3 anyone spoken to you about this case, or have you looked at or
4 listened to anything about this case? And that includes any
5 conversations here at the courthouse with any other prospective
6 juror or jurors.
7 A. No, I haven't.
8 Q. Juror 24, could you take seat No. 38 in courtroom 9B, seat
9 No. 38.
10 (Juror not present)
11 THE COURT: Do we have time to pull another couple?
12 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Seat No. 43, 119.
13 THE COURT: Just save that.
14 (Juror present)
15 BY THE COURT:
16 Q. Good afternoon, juror 330.
17 A. Good afternoon.
18 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
19 your ability to serve as a juror in this case or has anything
20 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
21 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
22 case?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
25 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
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1 listened to anything about this case? And that includes any
2 conversations here at the courthouse with any other prospective
3 juror or jurors.
4 A. No.
5 Q. Juror 330, can you take seat No. 39 in courtroom 9B, seat
6 No. 39. Thank you.
7 A. Thank you.
8 (Juror not present)
9 THE DEPUTY CLERK: The last number that I called which
10 was 43 was No. 119. And No. 44 will be 163.
11 THE COURT: 163.
12 THE DEPUTY CLERK: And No. 45 will be 51.
13 THE COURT: 51. All right. Why don't we pause there.
14 (Juror present)
15 BY THE COURT:
16 Q. Good afternoon, juror 331.
17 A. Good afternoon.
18 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
19 your ability to serve as a juror in this case or has anything
20 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
21 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
22 case?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
25 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
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1 listened to anything about this case? And that includes any
2 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
3 prospective juror or jurors.
4 A. No.
5 Q. Juror 331, could you take seat No. 40 in courtroom 9B, seat
6 No. 40.
7 A. Thank you.
8 Q. Thank you.
9 (Juror not present)
10 (Juror present)
11 BY THE COURT:
12 Q. Good afternoon, juror 180.
13 A. Good afternoon.
14 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
15 your ability to serve as a juror in this case or has anything
16 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
17 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
18 case?
19 A. That's a multipart question.
20 Q. Yes, it is.
21 A. Nothing has changed. I have not seen anything or heard
22 anything.
23 Q. Have you heard anything that may affect your ability to be
24 a fair and impartial juror in this case?
25 A. No.
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1 Q. The reason that it is a multipart question is that I am
2 really asking whether anything has happened since you were here
3 last that would lead you to believe that you could not serve as
4 a fair and impartial juror in this case. Has anything happened
5 to lead you to believe that you could not be fair and impartial
6 in this case?
7 A. No, your Honor.
8 Q. The reason it is a multipart question is, I left you last
9 time with a couple of questions. I asked whether if you were a
10 juror in this case you would decide this case based solely upon
11 the evidence or lack of evidence in this case and my
12 instructions on the law.
13 A. That's correct.
14 Q. Will you do that?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And I also asked you whether there is anything, whether I
17 have asked you about it specifically or not, that would prevent
18 you from being a fair and impartial juror in this case. So let
19 me ask you again, is there anything, whether I have asked you
20 about it specifically or not, that would prevent you from being
21 a fair and impartial juror in this case?
22 A. No, sir.
23 Q. Since you were here last -- this is a multipart question,
24 too. But since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone
25 or has anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked
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1 at or listened to anything about this case? And that includes
2 conversations here in the courthouse or with any other
3 prospective juror or jurors.
4 A. No, I haven't seen or heard anything. I know I haven't had
5 any conversations with anybody.
6 Q. If you were chosen as a juror in this case, would you be a
7 fair and impartial juror and decide this case based solely upon
8 the evidence or lack of evidence here in the courtroom?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Juror No. 180, would you take seat No. 41 in courtroom 9B,
11 seat No. 41 in courtroom 9B.
12 (Juror not present)
13 (Juror present)
14 BY THE COURT:
15 Q. Good afternoon, juror 82.
16 A. Good afternoon.
17 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
18 your ability to serve as a juror in this case or has anything
19 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
20 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
21 case?
22 A. No, sir.
23 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
24 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
25 listened to anything about this case? And that includes any
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1 conversations here at the courthouse with any other prospective
2 juror or jurors.
3 A. No.
4 Q. Juror No. 82, would you take seat No. 42 in courtroom 9B,
5 seat No. 42.
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 THE DEPUTY CLERK: I'll pull two more cards.
8 THE COURT: All right.
9 THE DEPUTY CLERK: No. 46 is 153, No. 47 is 385, and,
10 while I have time, No. 48 is 254.
11 (Juror present)
12 BY THE COURT:
13 Q. Good afternoon, juror 119. Since you were here last, has
14 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
15 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
16 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
17 impartial juror in this case?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
20 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
21 listened to anything about this case? And that includes any
22 conversations here in the courthouse or with any other
23 prospective juror or jurors.
24 A. No.
25 Q. Juror 119, could you take seat No. 43 in courtroom 9B, seat
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1 No. 43 in courtroom 9B. Thank you. Seat No. 43 in courtroom
2 9B.
3 (Juror not present)
4 (Juror present)
5 BY THE COURT:
6 Q. Good afternoon, juror 163. Since you were here last, has
7 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
8 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
9 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
10 impartial juror in this case?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
13 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
14 listened to anything about this case? And that includes any
15 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
16 prospective juror or jurors.
17 A. No.
18 Q. Juror No. 163, I'll ask you to take seat No. 44, seat No.
19 44 in courtroom 9B, seat No. 44 in courtroom 9B. Thank you.
20 (Juror not present)
21 THE DEPUTY CLERK: I'll pull out two more cards. 49
22 is 253, and 50 is 383.
23 THE COURT: 383. 383 is not here today.
24 (Continued on next page)
25
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1 BY THE COURT:
2 Q. Good afternoon, Juror 51. Since you were here last, has
3 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
4 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
5 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
6 impartial juror in this case?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
9 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
10 listened to anything about this case and that includes
11 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
12 prospective juror or jurors?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Juror 51, please take seat Number 45 in Courtroom 9B.
15 Thank you.
16 (Juror absent)
17 DEPUTY CLERK: Number 50 is Juror 19. Number 51 is
18 Juror 84.
19 (Juror present)
20 BY THE COURT:
21 Q. Good afternoon, Juror 153. Has anything changed in your
22 ability to serve as a juror in this case or has anything
23 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
24 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
25 case?
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1 A. No, Sir.
2 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
3 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
4 listened to anything about this case, and that includes any
5 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
6 prospective juror or jurors?
7 A. No, Sir.
8 Q. Juror Number 153, please take seat Number 46 in
9 Courtroom 9B. Seat Number 46. And Mr. Fletcher will show you
10 how to get out, and the marshals will direct you to
11 Courtroom 9B. Seat Number 46.
12 (Juror absent)
13 DEPUTY CLERK: Seat 52, Juror 243; seat Number 53 is
14 238; seat Number 54 is 165.
15 THE COURT: Hold on.
16 (Juror present)
17 Q. Good afternoon, Juror 385.
18 A. Good afternoon.
19 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
20 your ability to serve as a juror in this case; or has anything
21 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
22 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
23 case?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
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1 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
2 listened to anything about this case, and that includes any
3 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
4 prospective jurors?
5 A. No.
6 Q. All right, Juror Number 385. Please take seat Number 47 in
7 Courtroom 9B. Seat Number 47. Thank you.
8 (Juror absent)
9 DEPUTY CLERK: Seat Number 55 is 386; and seat Number
10 56 is 387.
11 (Juror present)
12 BY THE COURT:
13 Q. Good afternoon, Juror 254. Since you were here last, has
14 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
15 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
16 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
17 impartial juror in this case?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
20 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
21 listened to anything about this case? And that includes any
22 conversations here in the courthouse or with any other
23 prospective jurors, juror or jurors, in the courthouse?
24 A. No, pretty much everyone talking about the process itself.
25 Q. I'm sorry?
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1 A. Not about the case specifically. Everyone was just talking
2 about the process itself in terms of juries, but not the case.
3 Q. What about the process?
4 A. People a little anxious back there waiting. They were just
5 wondering whether they'd be called, people just trying to -- I
6 guess they were just a little tense, so that's pretty much what
7 happened.
8 Q. Anything else?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Anything about the issues in the case, the substance of the
11 case, anything like that?
12 A. No.
13 Q. All right. If you were chosen as a juror in this case,
14 would you be a fair and impartial juror in this case?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. All right. Juror 254, can you take seat Number 48 in
17 Courtroom 9B?
18 A. 48 in 9B?
19 Q. Seat Number 48 in Courtroom 9B.
20 (Juror absent)
21 (Juror present)
22 BY THE COURT:
23 Q. Good afternoon, Juror 253. Since you were here last, has
24 anything changed concerning your absent to serve as a juror in
25 this case, or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
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1 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
2 impartial juror in this case?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
5 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
6 listened to anything about this case, and that includes any
7 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
8 prospective juror or jurors?
9 A. No.
10 Q. All right. Juror 253, could you take seat Number 49, seat
11 Number 49, in Courtroom 9B.
12 (Juror absent)
13 DEPUTY CLERK: Let the record reflect that Juror 84 is
14 one of the ones missing in action, so I have to move everyone
15 up and call another name, and Number 56 will be 396.
16 (Juror present)
17 BY THE COURT:
18 Q. Good afternoon, Juror Number 19.
19 A. Good afternoon.
20 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
21 your ability to serve as a juror in this case; or has anything
22 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
23 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
24 case?
25 A. No.
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1 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
2 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
3 listened to anything about this case, and that includes any
4 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
5 prospective juror or jurors?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Juror Number 19, please take seat Number 50 in
8 Courtroom 9B. Seat number 50. Thank you.
9 (Juror absent)
10 (Juror present)
11 BY THE COURT:
12 Q. Good afternoon, Juror Number 243. Since you were here
13 last, has anything changed concerning your ability to serve as
14 a juror in this case or has anything occurred to you or have
15 you seen or heard anything that may affect your ability to be a
16 fair and impartial juror in this case?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
19 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
20 listened to anything about this case, and that includes
21 conversations here at the courthouse, or with any other
22 prospective juror or jurors?
23 A. No.
24 Q. All right. Juror 243, please take seat Number 51 in
25 Courtroom 9B. Seat Number 51. Thank you.
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1 (Juror absent)
2 (Juror present)
3 BY THE COURT:
4 Q. Good afternoon, Juror Number 238.
5 A. Good afternoon.
6 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
7 your ability to serve as a juror in this case, or has anything
8 occurred to you; have you seen or heard anything that may
9 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
10 case?
11 A. I've seen a couple of articles in the newspapers and things
12 like that, but I really didn't take a look at them in depth.
13 So overall in my judgment, I think I'd make a fair juror. But
14 you never know.
15 Q. Okay. Describe for me what articles you saw.
16 A. I saw a couple of articles regarding Miss Stewart, just
17 about how over the last couple of decades she has been
18 defending revolutionaries and rebellious persons, stuff to that
19 nature.
20 Q. Okay. And do you recall anything else about the articles?
21 A. I just took a quick glance. That was basically the
22 headlines. I just was looking and I peripherally saw it, I
23 didn't really see it in depth. It was basically the headline.
24 Q. What publication did you see this in?
25 A. A.M. New York. It's a new free newspaper and it's
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1 distributed around the city. Metro is another free newspaper,
2 daily. I think that's it pretty much.
3 Q. Okay. So do you recall anything else about the articles?
4 A. No. I just saw basically the headlines, and that was
5 basically the headline, like a sub-headline.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. How she's over the last three decades basically, you know,
8 defending certain people.
9 Q. All right. And I appreciate your bringing that to my
10 attention. If you were chosen as a juror, is there anything
11 about those articles that would prevent you from being a fair
12 and impartial juror?
13 A. I don't think so.
14 Q. Do you have any questions about that?
15 A. Not really, no.
16 Q. You see, it is -- and I'll give this in preliminary
17 instructions to the jury, too. And I said it before in the
18 course of jury selection: From time to time, there is
19 publicity about a case or about people in a case. What the law
20 requires is that the jurors decide the case based solely on the
21 evidence or lack of evidence in court, and not based upon
22 anything they may have seen, heard or read before. They have
23 to put aside anything they've seen, heard or read before and
24 decide the case based solely upon the evidence or lack of
25 evidence in court. And if you were chosen as a juror, would
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1 you do that?
2 A. Yes, I would.
3 Q. And could you do that?
4 A. I believe so.
5 Q. Do you have any question in your own mind whether you could
6 do that?
7 A. I do not, no.
8 Q. All right. Now, since you were here last, other than the,
9 what you've already pointed out to me, have you -- oh, let me
10 ask you one other question:
11 In the course of the trial, it may well be that
12 there's publicity. And what you would have to do in the course
13 of the trial is exactly as you did, turn away. If you see or
14 hear something inadvertently, unavoidably, about the case,
15 you'd have to turn away, and decide the case based solely on
16 the -- what you hear and see in court when the court is in
17 session, all parties are present and we're listening to the
18 evidence.
19 Would you do that? Would you follow that instruction?
20 A. Yes, I would.
21 Q. And can you do that?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Since you were here last, other than you've already
24 mentioned to me, have you spoken to anyone or has anyone spoken
25 to you about this case or have you looked at or mentioned
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1 anything about this case, and that includes conversations here
2 at the courthouse with anyone, including any other prospective
3 juror or jurors?
4 A. Aside from what I just told you in terms of seeing that
5 headline, no. Aside from that, no.
6 Q. Can you step out just for a moment?
7 A. Sure.
8 (Juror absent)
9 MR. TIGAR: Your Honor, this is a juror about whom we
10 had expressed some concern before, I think there was a
11 challenge for cause that the Court denied. Today he said, when
12 first asked if he could be fair, "You never know" -- I heard
13 those words. And then the articles in question, the A.M. and
14 Metro articles, if they are the ones with which I'm familiar,
15 they had Miss Stewart's picture, and therefore there was no
16 reason for the witness to read them just quickly.
17 And then he contradicted himself because in his last
18 answer, he said he only read the headline, which of course
19 could not be so if he knew the details that he recounted to the
20 Court.
21 Under those circumstances, your Honor, we respectfully
22 renew our challenge for cause. And in the alternative, we urge
23 the Court to ask the open-ended question, What did he think?
24 Because my thought was he thought Ms. Stewart represented
25 revolutionaries and rebels and, quote, "those people", close
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1 quote, indicated he had some view upon his reading.
2 THE COURT: Government?
3 MR. DEMBER: Your Honor, we don't believe that
4 anything he said in response to your questions today should
5 rise to the level of a challenge for cause at this point. He's
6 indicated like other jurors who have come here today that they
7 have seen headlines, some have actually read into articles and
8 realized they shouldn't, and have indicated they can be fair.
9 So we don't believe there's a challenge for cause here.
10 THE COURT: All right. I will ask him a couple of
11 follow-up questions. I -- the juror was forthright, credible,
12 in bringing the article to my attention that he saw. And also
13 he has -- his answers were credible to the follow-up questions
14 that I asked. I find him a conscientious juror. I'll ask him
15 a couple of follow-up questions.
16 Let's bring back Juror 238.
17 (Juror present)
18 BY THE COURT:
19 Q. Hi.
20 A. Hi.
21 Q. Juror 238, if you were chosen as a juror in this case, you
22 would have to decide the case based solely upon the evidence or
23 lack of evidence that's received here in court, and not on the
24 basis of anything you may have seen, heard or read before. Do
25 you understand that?
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1 A. Yes, I do.
2 Q. And is there anything in the articles that you've seen that
3 would prevent you from doing that?
4 A. No, I just -- I didn't even really get into the article.
5 Based on what I saw, it's still in my mind. I mean, I have a
6 pretty good memory, I'm not going to forget that. But overall,
7 I feel I can make a judgment based on the evidence provided to
8 me.
9 Q. Well --
10 A. I mean, it's kind of hard to forget that. I mean, it's a
11 little tough to forget that.
12 Q. Based upon the articles, do you have a view on the case or
13 any of the parties such that your view is such that the parties
14 in the case would have to present evidence to change your
15 views?
16 A. I mean, overall, I really don't feel like I had enough
17 information to make a concrete view. I mean, I basically -- I
18 just had that one statement in my mind. It's kind of in my
19 mind just as a statement, but it's not as though I'm looking at
20 it as though it's defining -- it's kind of hard to forget that
21 statement, that she's defended revolutionaries or -- I don't
22 know how it's going to impact on the case. I just remember
23 that statement. I don't really have a view about it. I
24 just -- basically what it comes down to, I recollect that
25 statement. I don't know if it really has any -- it's taken
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1 root in my mind as something that's concrete or that's what it
2 is. That's what I read in the paper. It's kind of like, I
3 can't really forget it. But I don't know if it's something
4 that's going to bar me from -- I mean, who's really to say?
5 But in terms of what I'm saying, I don't feel like it would
6 really impede me from making an honest decision based on the
7 evidence.
8 Q. You have it in your mind, and you say you can't
9 reasonably -- you can't reasonably put it out of your mind?
10 A. It's kind of tough to do.
11 Q. Let me put it this way: You don't know how that's going to
12 affect your -- whether you -- how you view the evidence in the
13 case?
14 A. I guess, ultimately, that's a valid conclusion. I mean,
15 overall, I feel that I would base it on the evidence, but
16 ultimately, I'm not 100 percent.
17 Q. Okay. Can you step out for a moment?
18 A. Sure.
19 (Juror absent)
20 THE COURT: I'm prepared to excuse the juror. And
21 it's also clear to me that if I pursued the other avenues that
22 reasonably arise from this, the answer would be the same.
23 MR. DEMBER: Your Honor, we have no objection.
24 THE COURT: All right.
25 (Juror present)
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1 BY THE COURT:
2 Q. Juror 238, I'm going to excuse you. And I appreciate your
3 answering these questions. You can go home and all of the
4 paperwork will be taken care of by mail.
5 A. Okay.
6 Q. And you can leave by that door (indicating).
7 A. All right. Thank you.
8 (Juror absent)
9 DEPUTY CLERK: 386, 397 and 396 have all moved up.
10 Number 56 is now 320.
11 I'll call 165.
12 (Juror present)
13 BY THE COURT:
14 Q. Please have a seat. Good afternoon, Juror 165. Since you
15 were here last, has anything changed concerning your ability to
16 serve as a juror in this case or has anything occurred to you
17 or have you seen or heard anything that may affect your ability
18 to be a fair and impartial juror in this case?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
21 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
22 listened to anything about this case, and that includes any
23 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
24 prospective juror or jurors?
25 A. No.
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1 Q. All right. Juror 165, could you take seat Number 52 in
2 Courtroom 9B? Seat Number 52.
3 (Juror absent)
4 (Juror present)
5 BY THE COURT:
6 Q. Good afternoon, Juror 386.
7 A. Good afternoon.
8 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
9 your ability to serve as a juror in this case or has anything
10 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
11 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
12 case?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or have
15 you, as it were -- has anyone spoken to you about this case; or
16 have you looked at or listened to anything about this case?
17 And that includes conversations here at the courthouse and with
18 any other prospective juror or jurors?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Juror 386, please take seat Number 53, seat Number 53, in
21 Courtroom 9B.
22 (Juror absent)
23 (Juror present)
24 BY THE COURT:
25 Q. Good afternoon, Juror 387.
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1 A. Good afternoon.
2 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
3 your ability to serve as a juror in this case or has anything
4 occurred to you or have you seen or heard anything that may
5 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
6 case?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
9 anyone spoken to you oh about this case or have you looked at
10 or listened to anything about this case? And that includes any
11 conversations here at courthouse with any other prospective
12 juror or jurors?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Juror 357, please take seat Number 54 in Courtroom 9B.
15 Seat Number 54.
16 (Juror absent)
17 (Juror present)
18 BY THE COURT:
19 Q. Good afternoon.
20 A. Good afternoon.
21 Q. Juror Number 396. Since you were here last, has anything
22 changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in this
23 case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or heard
24 anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and
25 impartial juror in this case?
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1 A. No.
2 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
3 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
4 listened to anything about this case? And that includes any
5 conversations here at the courthouse or courthouses, or with
6 any other prospective juror or jurors?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Juror 396 please take seat number 55 in Courtroom 9B.
9 Seat 55.
10 (Juror absent)
11 (Juror present)
12 BY THE COURT:
13 Q. Good afternoon, Juror 320. Since you were here last, has
14 anything changed concerning your ability to serve as a juror in
15 this case or has anything occurred to you or have you seen or
16 heard anything that may affect your ability to be a fair and im
17 par juror in this case?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. What is that?
20 A. First, the time element. It's just -- I can't do it. I
21 can't do the six months. I spoke to several people within my
22 family, and because of medical things and general pressure on
23 that level from everyone, I just cannot do this beyond October.
24 Q. What is it about the time that --
25 A. Well, I have to be examined ever I six months for cancer.
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1 Q. I'm sorry?
2 A. I have to be examined every six months for cancer, I always
3 have that possibility of going back into surgery, even though
4 it's remote, I grant you that. And then pressure within the
5 family, right, as far as time is concerned.
6 Q. Can you step out just for a moment?
7 A. Sure.
8 (Juror absent)
9 THE COURT: If the parties don't want me to press, I
10 will let the juror go and call another juror.
11 MR. TIGAR: We consent to that, your Honor.
12 MR. DEMBER: May I have a moment, your Honor?
13 (Off the record)
14 THE COURT: I remind you, it's Juror Number 320 who
15 tells me that his family pressures are such that he can't do
16 it, and I've said before that if the parties agree upon it, I
17 would go along with them. Do you really want me to press?
18 MR. DEMBER: The answer is no, your Honor.
19 THE COURT: All right. We'll excuse Juror 320.
20 (Juror present)
21 (Juror present)
22 BY THE COURT:
23 Q. Juror 320, I will excuse you. And you can go home, and all
24 of your paperwork will be taken care of in the mail. And if
25 you'd leave by that door (indicating).
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1 A. Thank you very much.
2 (Juror absent)
3 DEPUTY CLERK: Number 323.
4 (Juror present)
5 BY THE COURT:
6 Q. Good afternoon, Juror Number 323.
7 A. Good afternoon.
8 Q. Since you were here last, has anything changed concerning
9 your ability to serve as a juror in this case or has anything
10 occurred to you, have you seen or heard anything that may
11 affect your ability to be a fair and impartial juror in this
12 case?
13 A. No, Sir.
14 Q. Since you were here last, have you spoken to anyone or has
15 anyone spoken to you about this case or have you looked at or
16 listened to anything about this case, and that includes any
17 conversations here at the courthouse or with any other
18 prospective jurors?
19 A. No, Sir.
20 Q. Juror or jurors?
21 A. No.
22 Q. All right. Juror 323, could you take seat Number 56 in
23 Courtroom 9B? Thank you.
24 (Juror absent)
25 THE COURT: By my count, there are some jurors who are
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1 left who should be in 9A. There are also three jurors who
2 showed up late who are in Courtroom 6B. And we now have 56,
3 and the parties can exercise their peremptories against the 56.
4 My question -- I've ruled on all challenges for cause
5 that were addressed to me. Any further challenges for cause?
6 I explained the order of the peremptories, and if the
7 parties wish a brief -- I'm sure you've thoroughly analyzed the
8 jurors up until now. If you wish to give you a break before
9 you start to exercise the peremptories, I will do that.
10 MR. RUHNKE: We will certainly want a break, your
11 Honor.
12 THE COURT: Okay. In terms of the timing, we should
13 be finished with the exercise of the peremptories and swearing
14 in the jury today. I don't think I would have an opportunity
15 to give call of the preliminary instructions, but I will
16 introduce the jurors to Mr. Fletcher, explain to them the
17 marshals and the instruction if you ask and give them the
18 summary instructions which I've included at the end in summary
19 fashion, and tell them that I will give them their preliminary
20 instructions tomorrow.
21 So we'll break for 10 minutes, and then you can start
22 exercising your peremptories.
23 I've explained on the record the manner in which you
24 will exercise your peremptories, and Mr. Fletcher has shown you
25 the chart he'll keep. He will announce after each round who
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1 the jurors are who have been stricken. And remember, eight
2 rounds, two for the defense, one for the government; four
3 rounds, one each. Use it or lose it. Two passes, same round,
4 until jury selection is at an end. Exercise in any order
5 against the first group of 44; and then against the last group
6 of 12.
7 (Off the record)
8 DEPUTY CLERK: Are we ready, your Honor?
9 THE COURT: No, the parties want a break. You can
10 show them the chart. We'll break for 10 minutes? Five
11 minutes?
12 MR. PAUL: 10 minutes, please, Judge.
13 THE COURT: Okay.
14 MR. RUHNKE: Your Honor, can we have longer than 10
15 minutes?
16 THE COURT: If you need it.
17 MR. RUHNKE: I understand it's the time of the day and
18 everything, but we need 20 minutes.
19 THE COURT: If you need it. The other thing is you
20 may want to take a break, rather than to do everything now, ask
21 me for another break midway. You know.
22 MR. RUHNKE: We may ask for five minutes, seeing how
23 it goes. But we need to see how we're going to start.
24 THE COURT: Okay.
25 (Recess)
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1 THE COURT: Be seated. The CSO brought to
2 Mr. Fletcher's attention there was one juror that had an issue
3 with a night class, and I do remember one juror with respect to
4 that. So I bring that scheduling issue to your attention.
5 All right, ready to exercise the peremptories?
6 MR. MORVILLO: The government is ready, your Honor.
7 MR. RUHNKE: The defense is ready.
8 THE COURT: Mr. Fletcher?
9 DEPUTY CLERK: As the Court has indicated and I have
10 spoken to you during the break, I will repeat the peremptory
11 procedures as follows:
12 There will be eight rounds of two to one, defendant to
13 the government. And after that, there will be four rounds of
14 one each. That bringing a total of 20 for the defense, 12 for
15 the government. That's the strikes for the first 44 potential
16 jurors. That's 1 through 44. And this will go as follows:
17 Round one: Defendant two, government one.
18 THE COURT: I think they know this.
19 DEPUTY CLERK: That's fine. And for the alternates
20 there will be a total of three rounds: Three challenges for
21 each side. There'll be 1-1, 1-1 and 1-1. You cannot -- I just
22 want to let the parties know, you cannot reserve any
23 challenges. You either use it or you lose it. There is no
24 extra rounds, there's no extra innings or what-have-you.
25 Are there any questions?
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1 THE COURT: Two passes in the same round.
2 DEPUTY CLERK: Two passes in the same round, and the
3 jury selection is complete. And if there are any passes, the
4 last jurors, depending on the number of waives, are
5 automatically excused.
6 THE COURT: All right. Any questions? All right.
7 DEPUTY CLERK: I will give the board to the defense.
8 Please write the number. This is Round 1.
9 MR. RUHNKE: Seat number or?
10 DEPUTY CLERK: Juror Number. Actually, give me the
11 Juror Number and in parenthesis, give me the seat number.
12 (Defense strikes; government strikes)
13 DEPUTY CLERK: The following jurors are excused in
14 this round: Juror 221, Juror 304 and Juror 16.
15 MR. RUHNKE: Can you give us the seat numbers, please?
16 DEPUTY CLERK: 221 is Seat 12; 304 is Seat 29; Number
17 16 is Seat 15. That is the end of Round 1.
18 We are on Round 2.
19 (Defense strikes; government strikes)
20 DEPUTY CLERK: The following jurors are excused: 158,
21 252 and 345. 158 is Seat 24; 252 is Seat 20; 345 is Seat 30.
22 That is the end of Round 2.
23 This is Round 3.
24 (Defense strikes; government strikes)
25 (Continued on next page)
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1 THE DEPUTY CLERK: The following jurors are excused in
2 round 3: No. 330, seat 39; No. 283, seat No. 4; and No. 43,
3 seat No. 9.
4 Round 4.
5 The following jurors are excused in round 4: No. 331,
6 seat 40; No. 4, seat 17; and No. 156, seat 32.
7 MR. RUHNKE: After this round is completed, we do want
8 to take another break to see where we are.
9 THE COURT: All right.
10 MR. RUHNKE: Thank you.
11 THE DEPUTY CLERK: The following jurors are excused in
12 round 5: 199, which is seat 36; 180, which is seat 41; and 79,
13 which is seat 14.
14 THE COURT: We will take five minutes. Please --
15 MR. RUHNKE: We understand, your Honor.
16 (Recess)
17 THE COURT: Round 6.
18 THE DEPUTY CLERK: The following jurors are excused in
19 round 6: 129, which is seat 3; 400, which is seat 7; and 119,
20 which is seat 43.
21 Round 7.
22 The following jurors are excused in round 7: 412,
23 which is seat 8; 349, which is seat 26; and 24, which is seat
24 38.
25 This is round 8. This is the last challenge where the
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1 defendant gets two challenges in a round.
2 MR. RUHNKE: Your Honor, can we caucus right here at
3 counsel table?
4 THE COURT: Yes.
5 (Pause)
6 MR. RUHNKE: We are about ready. We just wanted to be
7 sure.
8 We are ready, your Honor. Thank you.
9 THE DEPUTY CLERK: The following jurors are excused in
10 round 8: Juror 98, which is seat 19; juror 203, which is seat
11 35; and 351, which is seat 27.
12 Rounds 9, 10, 11, 12, are one strike each.
13 Round 9.
14 The following jurors are excused in round 9: 267,
15 which is seat 23; and 209, which is seat No. 10.
16 Round 10.
17 MR. RUHNKE: One more break, if we could. We are down
18 to three challenges, and we would like to talk about them for a
19 few minutes.
20 Can we go to the table on the side?
21 THE COURT: Yes.
22 (Recess)
23 MR. RUHNKE: We are ready.
24 THE DEPUTY CLERK: The following jurors are excused in
25 round 10: 282, which is seat 21; and 230, which is seat No. 1.
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1 THE COURT: 282, seat 21.
2 THE DEPUTY CLERK: And seat 230, which is seat No. 1.
3 The following jurors are excused in round 11: 163,
4 which is seat 44, and 417, which is seat 22.
5 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, the government would request a
6 brief break before the next round.
7 THE COURT: Yes.
8 (Recess)
9 THE DEPUTY CLERK: Counsel, this is the final round to
10 strike from the first 44.
11 The following jurors are excused in round 12: No. 338,
12 which is seat No. 6; and 311, which is seat 25.
13 We now go to the alternate selection, which are from
14 potential jurors 45 through 56.
15 The following jurors are excused in alternate round 1:
16 No. 51, which is seat 45; and 385, which is seat 47.
17 The following jurors are excused from alternate round
18 2: Juror 254, which is seat 48; and juror 253, which is seat
19 49.
20 Alternate round 3. This is the final round of jury
21 selection.
22 The following jurors are excused in alternate round 3:
23 243, which is seat 51; and No. 19, which is seat 50.
24 Your Honor, shall I announce the jury?
25 THE COURT: Yes, please. (Continued on next page)
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1 DEPUTY CLERK: The jury is announced as follows:
2 Number 1 is 329, currently in seat Number 2.
3 Number 2 is 41, currently in seat Number 5.
4 Number 3 is 217, currently in seat 11.
5 Number 4 is Number 13, currently in seat 13.
6 Number 5 is 250, currently in seat 16.
7 Number 6 is 364, currently in seat 18.
8 Number 7 is 126, currently in seat 28.
9 Number 8 is 292, currently in seat 31.
10 Number 9 is 39, currently in seat 33.
11 Number 10 is 146, currently in seat 34.
12 Number 11 is 240, currently in seat 37.
13 Number 12 is Number 82, currently in seat 42.
14 Let me backtrack. Number 11 is 240, who is currently
15 in seat 37.
16 And Number 12 is 82, currently in seat 42.
17 Number 13 -- or alternate one, is number 53, currently
18 in seat 46.
19 THE COURT: 153.
20 DEPUTY CLERK: 153.
21 THE COURT: And we'll just refer to them as -- not as
22 alternate -- Juror Number 13 is --
23 DEPUTY CLERK: 153.
24 Juror 14 is 165, which is Number 52.
25 Number 15 is 386, currently in seat 53.
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1 Number 16 is 387, currently in seat 54.
2 Number 17 is 396, currently in seat 55.
3 And Number 18 is 323, currently in seat 56.
4 Are there any questions about this jury selection?
5 MR. DEMBER: No, your Honor.
6 THE COURT: Is the jury satisfactory to all sides?
7 MR. DEMBER: Yes, your Honor.
8 MR. TIGAR: Yes, your Honor.
9 THE COURT: All right. We'll call the jurors in.
10 We'll seat them. The other jurors will be asked to come in and
11 sit in the back of the courtroom. Mr. Fletcher will go in and
12 call the numbers of the jurors out of Courtroom 9B with a
13 security officer to comment and seat them, and then the other
14 jurors will be brought in -- have I done something wrong?
15 DEPUTY CLERK: Shall I take the cards with me and read
16 it off, or do you want me to write it on a piece of paper?
17 THE COURT: You can do it either way, just so long as
18 you have the 18 jurors who have to be brought in. And then the
19 Court Security Officer can bring the remaining jurors in and
20 I'll make the announcements I said I would make, and then
21 Mr. Fletcher will take the jurors to the -- the 18 jurors to
22 the jury room where they'll then be met by Mr. Grate who will
23 make the arrangements for the transportation for them.
24 All right?
25 DEPUTY CLERK: Shall I give out their numbers in the
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1 room or should I call them out to the pew and then have them
2 seated?
3 THE COURT: I'm perfectly happy to bring all of
4 Courtroom 9B in here and pull out their names here and then
5 seat them.
6 DEPUTY CLERK: Just the jurors that are selected?
7 THE COURT: That's what I mean. So the court security
8 officers can bring everyone from Courtroom 9B in; and everyone
9 from Courtroom 9A, any people who are in 6B. And then
10 Mr. Fletcher will call out the names of the individual jurors,
11 the 18 of them, and seat them individually. So they'll be
12 called out from the group that's in the audience.
13 Okay. Courtroom 9B. So all of -- Court Security
14 Officers will bring all of the jurors from 9B in, seat them in
15 the first few rows; then all of the jurors from 9A in the rows
16 after that. Okay? And then Mr. Fletcher will call out the
17 numbers to seat in the box, all right?
18 DEPUTY CLERK: Yes, your Honor.
19 (Off the record)
20 (Jury venire enters the courtroom)
21 THE COURT: Please be seated all. Good afternoon,
22 again, ladies and gentlemen. And again, it's good to see you
23 all.
24 Let me tell you where we are. In a moment,
25 Mr. Fletcher will call out the numbers for 18 jurors. The
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1 juror identification numbers, not the seats where you've been
2 sitting if you've been in Courtroom 9B. But the juror
3 identification numbers.
4 And he will seat each of those jurors in this jury box
5 from numbers 1 through 18. And the jury will then be sworn.
6 At that point, the remaining jurors, those of you who have been
7 in Courtroom 9B or those of you who have been in Courtroom 9A
8 or in Courtroom 6B, are excused after the jury is sworn, and
9 you may go home. And if you would, of course, leave by the far
10 door.
11 I realize I've kept you later than usual. And for
12 that, I am sorry. It has taken this amount of time to select
13 the jury.
14 If any jurors have a problem, whether they're on the
15 jury or being excused in terms of another commitment, for
16 example, school or for anything else that it would be useful
17 for you to have a note from the Court, please tell Mr. Grate
18 because Mr. Grate knows your identification and can write a
19 note for you.
20 As you know, I know you only by numbers and not by
21 names, so Mr. Grate could give you a note, or if it's necessary
22 in some way for me to give a note without knowing who you are,
23 of course, I will do that.
24 A brief word to all of you who have been waiting
25 patiently in the courtrooms: What you have done is to perform
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1 a public service by being here, by participating in the process
2 of jury selection. Our system of justice cannot work without
3 citizens such as you who are prepared to take the time and the
4 effort to participate in the process of jury selection. And so
5 by doing that, you have performed a public service similar to
6 that of everyone else who participates in the administration of
7 justice, and each of you should take away the deep personal
8 satisfaction of knowing that you have performed a public
9 service. Under our system, the jury system could not exist
10 without citizens such as yourselves, and even though you may
11 not have been selected for the jury, you have performed a
12 public service by participating in that process. And I hope
13 all of you take away that satisfaction of knowing that you have
14 participated in that process and have performed a public
15 service.
16 For the 18 of you who will be sworn, I have some very
17 brief instructions which I will give you, and after I dismiss
18 you for the evening, the marshals will take care of your
19 transportation this evening so you don't have to worry about
20 that.
21 And again, I'm sorry that we kept you somewhat longer
22 today. All right?
23 Mr. Fletcher?
24 DEPUTY CLERK: The following jurors, please take your
25 seats as directed:
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1 Number 329, please take the first seat. You'll be in
2 seat one, the first seat in the first row.
3 Number 41 will be in seat two.
4 Number 217 will be in seat three.
5 Number 13 will be in seat four.
6 Number 250 will be in seat five.
7 Number 250? Will be in seat five.
8 Number 364 is in seat six.
9 Number 127 is in -- Number 126, excuse me, is in seat
10 seven.
11 Number 292 is in seat eight.
12 Number 39 is in seat nine.
13 Number 146 is in seat 10.
14 Number 240 is in seat 11.
15 Number 82 is in seat 12.
16 Number 153 is in seat 13, that will be the first seat
17 in row three, 153.
18 Number 165 is in seat 14.
19 Number 386 is in seat 15.
20 Number 387 is in seat 16.
21 Number 396 is in seat 17.
22 And Number 323 is in seat 18.
23 THE COURT: All right. Swear the jury.
24 (Jury sworn)
25 THE COURT: Did everyone say "I do"? I want to hear
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1 it loudly from everyone -- Mr. Fletcher will give the oath
2 again. It was quiet and I don't hear so well in a large
3 courtroom.
4 Go ahead, Mr. Fletcher.
5 (Jury sworn)
6 JURORS: I do.
7 DEPUTY CLERK: You may be seated.
8 THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, those of
9 you, as I've said, who have been waiting patiently are now free
10 to go, and --
11 DEPUTY CLERK: One second.
12 THE COURT: Mr. Grate, they don't need cards,
13 everything will be taken care of?
14 JURY ADMINISTRATOR GRATE: No, Sir.
15 (Jury venire exits the courtroom)
16 THE COURT: If you would just close the doors in the
17 back, please, so that we -- so that I have the undivided
18 attention of the jurors.
19 All right. Ladies and gentlemen, truly these will be
20 very brief remarks, because tomorrow at the beginning of the
21 day, I will give you some preliminary instructions. And I
22 realize that we've gone late this evening, so I won't keep you
23 to give you all of those instructions. I'll begin with them
24 tomorrow.
25 There are just a few instructions which I really have
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1 to give you tonight before you go home. I will, tomorrow, do
2 this again, but I'd like to introduce to you at the outset
3 Mr. Don Fletcher, the deputy clerk. I introduced him briefly
4 at the outset. During the trial, he will be responsible for
5 giving the oath to witnesses before they testify; and keeping
6 track of exhibits.
7 Importantly, from your perspective, he will bring the
8 jurors into and out of the courtroom each time the jurors enter
9 or leave the courtroom.
10 In the unlikely event that it's necessary for a juror
11 to bring something to the attention of the Court, to my
12 attention, the juror should convey that to Mr. Fletcher. But
13 please, don't tell any other juror about any matter that you
14 believe necessary to bring to the Court's attention.
15 You should also not talk to Mr. Fletcher or indeed any
16 of the court staff or any of the marshals about the substance
17 of this case or about your views of the case. You should also
18 remember never to disclose your name or address to Mr. Fletcher
19 or indeed any of the court staff. That information is given
20 only to the jury administrator's office, Mr. Grate's office,
21 and to the marshals for purposes of transportation.
22 As I mentioned to you, the marshals will see to your
23 transportation home and will see to transportation in in the
24 morning.
25 Because you will be in contact with the marshals, I
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1 also instruct you not to talk to the marshals about the
2 substance or the details of the case, including scheduling.
3 While the marshals will arrange transportation for you, you are
4 not to talk to them about anything to do with the case,
5 including any scheduling.
6 I have some more extensive instructions which I'll
7 give you tomorrow morning, first thing. But right now, let me
8 summarize the instructions, some of the instructions for you,
9 because it's important for you to have them now. I will repeat
10 them tomorrow and I will repeat them probably at numerous times
11 in the course of the trial.
12 First, do not talk to each other about this case or
13 about anyone who has anything to do with it until the end of
14 the case when you go to the jury room to decide on your
15 verdict.
16 Second, do not talk with anyone else about this case
17 or about anyone with anything to do with it until the trial has
18 ended and you have been discharged as jurors. Anyone else
19 includes members of your family and your friends. You may tell
20 them that you are a juror in a case, but please don't tell them
21 anything else about it until after you have been discharged as
22 jurors by me.
23 Third, do not let anyone talk to you about the case or
24 about anyone who has anything to do with it. If someone should
25 try to talk to you, please report it to me immediately through
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1 my deputy clerk, Don Fletcher. You should not, however, as I
2 explained to you, discuss with your fellow jurors either that
3 fact or any other fact that you feel necessary to bring to the
4 attention of the Court.
5 Fourth, do not converse, whether in or out of the
6 courtroom, with any of the lawyers, the defendants or any of
7 the witnesses. By this, I mean not only do not talk about the
8 case, I mean, do not converse at all. Even to pass the time of
9 day. I've instructed all of the lawyers, the defendants and
10 the witnesses that they are not to speak to you or even
11 acknowledge you with a hello or a good morning outside the
12 courtroom. Therefore, do not hold it against them if they
13 ignore you or should leave an area which you are in. They're
14 simply following my instructions. The reason for this rule is
15 very simple: Someone watching from a distance might not hear
16 what is said between an attorney and a juror and even a
17 pleasantry could create a misimpression.
18 Fifth, do not read any news stories or articles or
19 listen to any radio or television reports about the case or
20 about anyone who has anything to do with it. If you should see
21 or hear something inadvertently, simply turn away and put it
22 out of your mind.
23 Sixth, do not do any research or any investigation
24 about the case on your own. Do not go to visit anyplace
25 described during the trial.
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1 The reason for these rules is fairly simple: The
2 parties are entitled to have you, personally, render a verdict
3 in this case on the basis of your independent evaluation of the
4 evidence presented here in the courtroom after your
5 deliberations with the other jurors. Obviously, speaking to
6 others, including your family and friends, outside of the
7 deliberation process or exposing yourself to evidence or
8 information outside the courtroom would compromise your service
9 and fairness to the parties.
10 Our normal days will be 9:30 to 12:45; and from 2:00
11 until 4:30. We will see that we bring morning refreshments in
12 for you; we'll see that we bring luncheons for you; we'll see
13 that we bring an afternoon break in for you also.
14 We'll sit from Monday through Thursday, usually. We
15 will be sitting in Courtroom 110 at 40 Center Street. That's
16 the building across the street where I conducted the individual
17 examination of the jurors. And the marshals will see that you
18 get to the appropriate place so that you can come to the
19 appropriate courtroom.
20 I have telephone numbers for you, but Mr. Grate can
21 confirm those with you if you don't have something to write on
22 at this point. If you do, I'm happy to give you those
23 telephone numbers. These are emergency telephone numbers. All
24 right, looks like everyone has something to write on and with.
25 My office telephone number is 212-805-0222.
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1 212-805-0222.
2 The jury office is 212-805-0179. 212-805-0179.
3 Mr. Fletcher's telephone number is 212-805-0107.
4 212-805-0107.
5 Remember, ladies and gentlemen, if you do call in an
6 emergency, give us only your juror identification number and
7 not your name or address or telephone number. The jury
8 administrator, Mr. Grate, can always contact you, and neither I
9 nor Mr. Fletcher nor anyone else on my staff need your name,
10 address or telephone number. That's for Mr. Grate and for the
11 marshals to arrange your transportation. So if you call, give
12 us only your juror identification number. Not your name, not
13 your address, not your telephone number.
14 We will now break for the day, and Mr. Fletcher and
15 Mr. Grate will take you to the jury room. This is my first
16 opportunity to have all of you as a jury leave the courtroom.
17 So let me explain a practice of mine:
18 Every time the jurors enter or leave the courtroom, I
19 ask everyone in the courtroom to stand as a sign of respect for
20 all of you. That is the respect to which all of you are
21 entitled as the finders of fact in this case. So each time you
22 enter or leave the courtroom, I will ask everyone in the
23 courtroom to stand, and I, as well as everyone else in the
24 courtroom, will stand as a sign of respect for all of you.
25 This is my first opportunity to do that, so remember
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1 my continuing instructions: Not to talk about the case, don't
2 look at or listen to anything to do with the case. If you
3 should see or hear something to do with the case, simply turn
4 away. Always remember to keep an open mind until you've heard
5 all of the evidence, I've instructed you on the law, you've
6 gone to the jury room to begin your deliberations.
7 Have a very good evening, and I look forward to seeing
8 you tomorrow morning. And I know we'll be beginning at 9:30,
9 so I'm sure the marshals will have you here somewhat before
10 9:30 so we can begin promptly. Have a very good evening.
11 All rise, please. And the jurors may follow Mr. Grate
12 to the jury room.
13 (Jury exits the courtroom)
14 (Continued on next page)
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1 (In open court; jury not present)
2 THE COURT: I have the preliminary instructions which
3 I will give to the jury first thing tomorrow morning. You
4 should all be in courtroom 110 by quarter after 9.
5 I take it, because I have not heard anything, that you
6 have worked out the issues with respect to what will be shown
7 or not shown to jurors in the course of opening statements?
8 MR. RUHNKE: Yes, we have, your Honor.
9 MR. MORVILLO: That's correct, your Honor.
10 THE COURT: I would like not to go too long, not much
11 over 4:30 tomorrow, but I also don't limit the time that you
12 all have for opening statements. And so if we find that all of
13 the defense opening can't be given tomorrow, I am perfectly
14 happy to put over a defense opening until the next day, and I
15 would take guidance as to whether you want to break in the
16 middle or put one over until the next day. Maybe we will get
17 everything in tomorrow, which would be just fine. But I am
18 flexible with respect to what you want to do and I realize that
19 there is some flexibility as to how long the openings are going
20 to go from both sides.
21 Could you tell me, so that I don't call on the wrong
22 person, I'm told Mr. Morvillo will be giving the opening for
23 the government?
24 MR. MORVILLO: That's correct.
25 THE COURT: Do the defendants have an order.
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1 MR. TIGAR: Yes. I will be starting, your Honor, for
2 Ms. Stewart followed, I think, by Mr. Ruhnke for Mr. Yousry,
3 and Mr. Paul for Mr. Sattar.
4 THE COURT: I received a couple of motions at the
5 lunch hour from Ms. Stewart. Is the government going to be
6 putting in any response?
7 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, if you require us to respond,
8 we will. But we submit that the Court could deny the motions
9 based on the arguments that the government has previously made.
10 We believe that essentially even the selective prosecution
11 portion of the argument is essentially a First Amendment
12 argument and that's an issue that Ms. Stewart has raised
13 before. And as the government has previously argued, the First
14 Amendment does not prevent the use of speech as evidence to
15 prove a claim where there is otherwise criminal conduct, and
16 your Honor has otherwise ruled that there is criminal conduct
17 at issue in the case and that the charges themselves do not run
18 afoul of the First Amendment. We would prefer, obviously, not
19 to have to invest the time in doing another written response,
20 but will if your Honor directs us to.
21 THE COURT: I would prefer a brief written response.
22 And if there is going to be a reply -- is there going to be a
23 reply?
24 MR. TIGAR: I haven't seen the response yet, your
25 Honor, but I certainly would not do anything that I thought was
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1 going to waste the Court's time. But I will let the Court know
2 just as soon as we get the reply, if that's acceptable to the
3 Court.
4 THE COURT: Sure.
5 You don't have to give it to me tomorrow. I realize
6 that you are doing other things.
7 MS. BAKER: Your Honor, if we could have a week.
8 THE COURT: That's fine.
9 MS. BAKER: Thank you.
10 If I could raise one other scheduling matter or when
11 the Court is finished, I would like to do it as well.
12 THE COURT: I'm just about done.
13 MS. BAKER: On the objections to the requests for
14 charge, in light of the lateness of the hour right now, I don't
15 think that we will be able to get those finished today, so I
16 would ask for another day.
17 THE COURT: That's fine. When do you think the
18 parties want to give them to me?
19 MS. BAKER: If your Honor would give us until Friday,
20 we would appreciate it.
21 THE COURT: Friday is fine by me any time.
22 Is there anything else for me?
23 MR. MORVILLO: Your Honor, I was just wondering if the
24 Court knows what time the courtroom will be open tomorrow.
25 There were a couple of things that I think the government would
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1 like to see as far as the technology that's there just to make
2 sure it is working and up and running before we start.
3 THE DEPUTY CLERK: I will attempt it at 9 a.m. The
4 security officer will not open it without my authorization or
5 yours. I will attempt to get it open at 9 a.m.
6 MR. MORVILLO: Thank you.
7 THE COURT: Okay. Good evening, all. I'll see you
8 all tomorrow.
9 (Adjourned to Tuesday, June 22, 2004, at 9:15 a.m.)
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